Author Topic: Price Feed Review  (Read 24946 times)

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Offline zhouxiaobao

if DEX's price*(1+premium)>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*(1+premium),CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate-Withdrawal rate)/2

      Please witness try to provide high feed prices within a reasonable range.
      Now, if you buy a BTS in the DEX, the money that investors have to pay is the DEX price * recharge rate.This price is the actual price of BTS, why can't it be used as feed price?
      Of course, in order to prevent being used by whales, the price should not deviate too much from the CEX price (e.g. 5%).
     

Offline zhouxiaobao

if DEX's price*(1+premium)>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*(1+premium),CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate-Withdrawal rate)/2

Offline bitcrab

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2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.
I don't think this focus on the topic and a good talking.

You can you up?

Is it not a truth? or the design of feed price is perfect and not allowed people to judge it?
People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.

it's easy to say political correct words like "we should treat shorts and longs equally", but I don't think these words get the key points of this ecosystem.

in BTS, shorts and longs(here longs means BTS long, means the debt position owners) are naturally not equal.

longs has an leverage tool to use, and at the same time bear the risk of margin call, and at the same time longs create smartcoin supply which is base of this ecosystem.

shorts does not.

so the rules should firstly be fair to longs, prohibit longs from being unfairly exploited, this is relevant to what we will build - a financial system with amazing stable coins or a gambling house.

that's why I emphasize the principle "price feed should not conflict with the modified DEX price(DEX price plus premium/discount)".

and I feel this statement is self-explanatory: "if a BTS/smartcoin pair in DEX has good enough market depth and volume, it should play the most important role in price feed determination."

because any CEX may have fake volume, naked shorts, etc., but DEX does not.

and because DEX is our home field.

this is not ignoring price in CEX, actually any big price change in CEX can be transmitted to DEX quickly, if price change in one CEX is not transmitted to DEX, it can be ignored.
 
it's reluctant to ask BTSer to put money to CEX to sustain the price, DEX should be the front that reflect the final short-long battle result.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 01:47:21 pm by bitcrab »
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Offline binggo

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People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.

People have two face, but if we have a reasonable and clear rules in the feed price, and remove the human factor from the witness, give the reasonable weight and parameter of CEX and DEX price, so some complaint must give a strong case.

The interval of feed price must have a rule.

Feed fair price, not too high, not too low, this is right, but some witnees was very hard to give the fair price, or too high, or too low.

Offline George_Bitspark

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Entirely disagree about trying to remove potential for discounts or premiums. Thats just the market. If the feed price moves and orders are still stuck at sub-optimal prices then there is an opportunity for takers to make money, thats intended. Regarding witnesses not providing accurate feeds ontime, thats also up to the market, if people dont like it they should vote out those witnesses.

I would see value in an open source script that takes as many datapoints as possible into consideration and publishes a feed with a comparison +/- % to others witnesses, perhaps post it on a webpage so voters can make the decision themselves to vote/unvote, apart from that nothing much else should be done.
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Offline BTSMoon

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Offline yamtt

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bitEUR, bitUSD, MSSR, MCR, should be adjusted at the same time, we have been well reflected in bitcny


Offline zhouxiaobao


if DEX's price*premium>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*premium,CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate+Withdrawal rate)/2
 

Offline abit

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Quote

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.
I don't think this focus on the topic and a good talking.

You can you up?

Is it not a truth? or the design of feed price is perfect and not allowed people to judge it?
People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.
BitShares committee member: abit
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Offline zhouxiaobao


Things to remember:

1. if price change is within a threshold (E.G. 0.1%, of course need to be small enough), to avoid chain bloat, it's better to skip feeding a new price. So it's possible that no new feed got published for a relatively long period, the reason is too little change in price. IMHO an average interval of 5~20 minute is good enough.

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.

3. DEX price * premium? How to know how much the premium is? Volumes of the fiat gateways (MagicWallet/bitCNY:QC in ZB/bitCNY:CNC in AEX) are so low recently, which can not justify the premium. Also the gateway price (aka deposit/withdrawal processing fee) can change quickly.

4. volumes on many CEXs are FAKE.

By the way, we have some charts here: http://pricefeed-tracker.dex.trading/

     
     1、 There is a gap between the prices of BTS in various exchanges. Why is there no arbitrage?Because there are all kinds of handling fees.However, you witnesses did not consider handling fees for all kinds of conversion of BTS prices.
      BTC--->BTS---->USDT----->CNY......   
      These price conversions do not take into account handling fees, so the feed price is always lower than the actual price.
      The highest price of BTS in major exchanges (including the DEX) is closest to the actual price.

      2、 Why can't the DEX price be taken into account in the feeding price? The volume of DEX has already exceeded tens of millions, surpassing many CEXs.
     Is it because the price is difficult to determine?
     How much does it cost for us to buy a BTS in the DEX? This is very clear,DEX price *Recharge rate.
     This is the real price of BTS, at least the feed price cannot deviate too much from this price.
     Why has MSSR dropped to 102%, and BITCNY premium is still large? The important reason is that the feed price is lower than the actual price.

Offline binggo

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Quote

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.
I don't think this focus on the topic and a good talking.

You can you up?

Is it not a truth? or the design of feed price is perfect and not allowed people to judge it?


Offline abit

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Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case) so it's an unreasonable statement based on some snapshot in time. price feeds should average out to a true price among all witnesses. Look at the screen shots later on, my price happen to be 2% above on the other side of that price medium is that a warning also?
And when will GDEX start feeding all prices? Should be unvoted  by proxies until it does.

feed price should reflect the real market price, 20-40 minutes as price taking period is not acceptable.

Things to remember:

1. if price change is within a threshold (E.G. 0.1%, of course need to be small enough), to avoid chain bloat, it's better to skip feeding a new price. So it's possible that no new feed got published for a relatively long period, the reason is too little change in price. IMHO an average interval of 5~20 minute is good enough.

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.

3. DEX price * premium? How to know how much the premium is? Volumes of the fiat gateways (MagicWallet/bitCNY:QC in ZB/bitCNY:CNC in AEX) are so low recently, which can not justify the premium. Also the gateway price (aka deposit/withdrawal processing fee) can change quickly.

4. volumes on many CEXs are FAKE.

By the way, we have some charts here: http://pricefeed-tracker.dex.trading/
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Offline sahkan

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Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case) so it's an unreasonable statement based on some snapshot in time. price feeds should average out to a true price among all witnesses. Look at the screen shots later on, my price happen to be 2% above on the other side of that price medium is that a warning also?
And when will GDEX start feeding all prices? Should be unvoted  by proxies until it does.

feed price should reflect the real market price, 20-40 minutes as price taking period is not acceptable.

"the higher, the better" is not my opinion. but now the main problem of feed price is some witnesses always feed too low price. we need to focus on this.

it's not difficult for me to request my coder to add feed price to all the smartcoins, but I am not sure that will make big sense.

taking bitEUR as one example, it has a supply of 57000 EUR and 24hour volume is about 4000 BTS, there are many users and important community members that come from Europe, but anyone care bitEUR?

if we really want to cultivate bitEUR, we need to consider to change something, such as MSSR, MCR, market fee etc., but seems no one want to do that.

People that have bitEUR care, and RUBLE is another rapidly growing market as RUDEX is becoming more popular.

Offline bitProfessor

Of course you need to have reasonable configuration. But surely, if a single witness publishes a feed that is 5% (or more) away from feed price, the proxy should at least be notified.

Unvoting a witnesses can be justified when the last feed was older than 2 days, or when he doesn't follow consensus when it comes to MSSR or MCR.

I wrote this code in my spare time, as usual ..
I can't imagine what logic can be used to implement disapprove witness automaticly based on the feed price.
it's unresponsoble to vote witness automaticly by proxy, if somebody did this, please let me know.
BTW, did this development pay by worker income?

While we are at it, I started working on a python project that is supposed to automatically disapprove (unvote) witnesses that provide inaccurate feeds (relative to price feed) here:

https://github.com/xeroc/witness-monitor

Any development resources to improve that would be welcome.
Great!

Offline bitcrab

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Again, our feeds are not every second. It's a price snap shot taken within some specific period 20-40 minutes (2 in your case) so it's an unreasonable statement based on some snapshot in time. price feeds should average out to a true price among all witnesses. Look at the screen shots later on, my price happen to be 2% above on the other side of that price medium is that a warning also?
And when will GDEX start feeding all prices? Should be unvoted  by proxies until it does.

feed price should reflect the real market price, 20-40 minutes as price taking period is not acceptable.

"the higher, the better" is not my opinion. but now the main problem of feed price is some witnesses always feed too low price. we need to focus on this.

it's not difficult for me to request my coder to add feed price to all the smartcoins, but I am not sure that will make big sense.

taking bitEUR as one example, it has a supply of 57000 EUR and 24hour volume is about 4000 BTS, there are many users and important community members that come from Europe, but anyone care bitEUR?

if we really want to cultivate bitEUR, we need to consider to change something, such as MSSR, MCR, market fee etc., but seems no one want to do that.

Email:bitcrab@qq.com