Author Topic: Price Feed Review  (Read 10645 times)

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Offline yamtt

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2019, 03:07:22 pm »
bitEUR, bitUSD, MSSR, MCR, should be adjusted at the same time, we have been well reflected in bitcny


Offline BTSMoon

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2019, 12:38:02 am »


Offline George_Bitspark

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2019, 07:20:22 am »
Entirely disagree about trying to remove potential for discounts or premiums. Thats just the market. If the feed price moves and orders are still stuck at sub-optimal prices then there is an opportunity for takers to make money, thats intended. Regarding witnesses not providing accurate feeds ontime, thats also up to the market, if people dont like it they should vote out those witnesses.

I would see value in an open source script that takes as many datapoints as possible into consideration and publishes a feed with a comparison +/- % to others witnesses, perhaps post it on a webpage so voters can make the decision themselves to vote/unvote, apart from that nothing much else should be done.
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Offline binggo

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2019, 08:12:31 am »
Quote
People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.

People have two face, but if we have a reasonable and clear rules in the feed price, and remove the human factor from the witness, give the reasonable weight and parameter of CEX and DEX price, so some complaint must give a strong case.

The interval of feed price must have a rule.

Feed fair price, not too high, not too low, this is right, but some witnees was very hard to give the fair price, or too high, or too low.

Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2019, 12:06:49 pm »
Quote

2. there were people crying in the past that "it's easy to dump in CEX to trigger margin calls in DEX". Come on, please put thick enough buy orders with your own money in CEX to prevent the price from dropping.
I don't think this focus on the topic and a good talking.

You can you up?

Is it not a truth? or the design of feed price is perfect and not allowed people to judge it?
People complained that witnesses updated price feed too fast when there is a dump happened on CEX. Now same people complain that witnesses updated price feed too slow when there is a pump? WTF?

Both longs and shorts are traders, we should treat them equally. That said, feed fair price, not too high, not too low. Don't change interval in downtrend nor in uptrend.

it's easy to say political correct words like "we should treat shorts and longs equally", but I don't think these words get the key points of this ecosystem.

in BTS, shorts and longs(here longs means BTS long, means the debt position owners) are naturally not equal.

longs has an leverage tool to use, and at the same time bear the risk of margin call, and at the same time longs create smartcoin supply which is base of this ecosystem.

shorts does not.

so the rules should firstly be fair to longs, prohibit longs from being unfairly exploited, this is relevant to what we will build - a financial system with amazing stable coins or a gambling house.

that's why I emphasize the principle "price feed should not conflict with the modified DEX price(DEX price plus premium/discount)".

and I feel this statement is self-explanatory: "if a BTS/smartcoin pair in DEX has good enough market depth and volume, it should play the most important role in price feed determination."

because any CEX may have fake volume, naked shorts, etc., but DEX does not.

and because DEX is our home field.

this is not ignoring price in CEX, actually any big price change in CEX can be transmitted to DEX quickly, if price change in one CEX is not transmitted to DEX, it can be ignored.
 
it's reluctant to ask BTSer to put money to CEX to sustain the price, DEX should be the front that reflect the final short-long battle result.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 01:47:21 pm by bitcrab »

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2019, 02:30:25 pm »
if DEX's price*(1+premium)>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*(1+premium),CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate-Withdrawal rate)/2

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2019, 07:35:36 am »
if DEX's price*(1+premium)>1.05*CEX's price 
   feed price = 1.05*CEX'price
otherwise                     
   feed price = max(DEX's price*(1+premium),CEX's price  )

premium=(Recharge rate-Withdrawal rate)/2

      Please witness try to provide high feed prices within a reasonable range.
      Now, if you buy a BTS in the DEX, the money that investors have to pay is the DEX price * recharge rate.This price is the actual price of BTS, why can't it be used as feed price?
      Of course, in order to prevent being used by whales, the price should not deviate too much from the CEX price (e.g. 5%).
     

Offline pc

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2019, 12:08:14 pm »
Please explain what "Recharge rate" and "withdrawal rate" is.
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Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2019, 12:42:32 pm »
Please explain what "Recharge rate" and "withdrawal rate" is.

In China, if you buy BTS on the DEX, you mainly use a software ,name Magicwallet. In the software, there are acceptors who is responsible for buying and selling bitcny. first, you buy bitcny from the acceptors,and then you buy BTS from the DEX. Recharge rate is the handling fee for investors to purchase bitcny, and withdrawal rate is the handling fee for investors to sell bitcny. These two handling fees reflect bitcny's premium.
The higher the bitcny premium, the higher the recharge rate, and the withdrawal rate is even negative.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2019, 01:08:02 pm »
(1+ recharge rate)is the legal tender price for investors to buy bitcny in china.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2019, 01:21:54 pm »
      (1+ recharge rate)is the legal tender price for investors to buy bitcny in china.
      Thousands of our Chinese investors in the DEX(basically, the vast majority of DEX's traders) bought bitcny in this way, thus entering the DEX. DEX's price * recharge rate should be the most accurate price of BTS.

Offline pc

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2019, 07:19:23 am »
Thanks.

You're still ignoring the fact that there is a huge volume of poorly collateralized shorts out there, which means while BTS goes down the DEX price is permanently driven towards MSSR because of constant margin calling. Deriving the feed price from that skewed DEX price is what I'm primarily worried about, because it creates a dangerous feedback loop.

Also, I suspect that Chinese investors mostly do not invest in BTS, but they invest in BTC or other cryptos and use bitCNY/BTS merely as a vehicle. (I may be wrong of course.)

If large amounts of CNY enter the system that way, they will accept a worse-than-fair (less BTS per CNY and higher recharge rate) price, whereas when investors want to exit into CNY they will pay more BTS per CNY and accept a higher withdraw rate. Either way, the MagicWallet price will be skewed relative to the feed price. In a healthy market environment these differences would be resolved through arbitrage. Arbitrage is difficult here because of the general difficulty of investing CNY into cryptos. This only means that we must accept bigger differences, because with higher potential profits arbitrage will kick in at some point.

It is still debatable if the MagicWallet price reflects the fair price better than an external CEX. I see your logic there. At the very least though, the effect of margin calls on the DEX price must be taken into account.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Online bitcrab

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2019, 12:18:24 pm »
Thanks.

You're still ignoring the fact that there is a huge volume of poorly collateralized shorts out there, which means while BTS goes down the DEX price is permanently driven towards MSSR because of constant margin calling. Deriving the feed price from that skewed DEX price is what I'm primarily worried about, because it creates a dangerous feedback loop.

Also, I suspect that Chinese investors mostly do not invest in BTS, but they invest in BTC or other cryptos and use bitCNY/BTS merely as a vehicle. (I may be wrong of course.)

If large amounts of CNY enter the system that way, they will accept a worse-than-fair (less BTS per CNY and higher recharge rate) price, whereas when investors want to exit into CNY they will pay more BTS per CNY and accept a higher withdraw rate. Either way, the MagicWallet price will be skewed relative to the feed price. In a healthy market environment these differences would be resolved through arbitrage. Arbitrage is difficult here because of the general difficulty of investing CNY into cryptos. This only means that we must accept bigger differences, because with higher potential profits arbitrage will kick in at some point.

It is still debatable if the MagicWallet price reflects the fair price better than an external CEX. I see your logic there. At the very least though, the effect of margin calls on the DEX price must be taken into account.

what does CNY feed price mean? it means at which price you can do conversion between BTS and fiat CNY.

DEX price and bitCNY deposit/withdrawl fee in magic wallet is a good source to get such a price.

surely there are other ways, for example, the BTS/USDT price and USDT/CNY OTC price from huobi is also a good source to get such a price.

there may be price difference, but we should respect DEX enough as this is our home field, it is not acceptable that the feed price is much lower than the modified DEX price(2% or more), if you can really get BTS much cheaper than modified DEX price, please buy some and sell in DEX.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2019, 01:02:47 pm »
       Funny thing is, at the current feeding price, there is basically no place to buy such a cheap BTS. Witnesses actually think that the feeding price is no problem.
       For example, I bought 500,000 BTS in DEX last night. Each BTS cost me 0.404 RMB (2.1% of recharge rate is included). But the feed price is 0.395. Please tell me where the 0.395 BTS is available. Or which witness is willing to sell it to me at this price?

Offline ioex

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Re: Price Feed Review
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2019, 01:06:17 pm »
       Funny thing is, at the current feeding price, there is basically no place to buy such a cheap BTS. Witnesses actually think that the feeding price is no problem.
       For example, I bought 500,000 BTS in DEX last night. Each BTS cost me 0.404 RMB (2.1% of recharge rate is included). But the feed price is 0.395. Please tell me where the 0.395 BTS is available. Or which witness is willing to sell it to me at this price?

no ,you misunderstand. The feed price is the witness want to buy at the price. You should sell to them.