Author Topic: [Worker Proposal] BitAsset PhD Research project - University of Colorado  (Read 68639 times)

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Offline bench

I believe this WP will be more productive for this purpose; threads on bitsharestalk are usually pretty quiet.
No, because you are now on the bitAsset research project thread!
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Offline R

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This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.
If you are unsure how to set parameters, you should open a separate topic.
I believe this WP will be more productive for this purpose; threads on bitsharestalk are usually pretty quiet.

Offline bench

There is no unlimited liquidity.
It was only a thought experiment, like the research. The experiment was chosen to highlight the real elephant is in the room.

This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.
If you are unsure how to set parameters, you should think yourself or open a separate topic.
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Offline bench

There is no unlimited liquidity.
It was only a thought experiment, like the research. The experiment was chosen to highlight the real elephant is in the room.

This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.
If you are unsure how to set parameters, you should open a separate topic.
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline R

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I don't see how this worker would help the value of BTS.
Not only you see no value in this worker, but also the majority of the voters see now value in this worker proposal.

We already know:
MCR = 2.0 -> low liquidity -> unsafe
MCR = 1.01 -> unlimited liquidity -> 100% safe

Our problem is now liquidity and BTS price and not to set the parameter for MCR/MSSR!

My proposal does solve the problem by increasing the liquidity and the demand for BTS:
Margin position liquidity pool - https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/182
How would you configure the settings for algorithm based assets? Not all smartcoins are market pegged assets & the recommended settings and possibilities for algorithm based assets is lacking.

This worker proposal could provide new smartcoin setting profiles for multiple theoretical assets & that's valuable information to me and probably others.

Offline abit

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How do you *know* (instead of believe)? E. g. I believe that "MCR=1.01 -> 100% safe" is obviously untrue, because a drop of 2% in BTS price will lead to undercollateralization and destroy the peg.
Because the unlimited liquidity can always increase the CR faster, than the price drop!
There is no unlimited liquidity. You put a buy order but nobody would sell. You buy up means only you think your bitX doesn't work 1 X, but not mean BTS price will go up. Anyone dumps in another market will still crash the price, then all the debt positions will become margin calls and collateral be dumped to the market and crash the DEX price, leads to unlimited liquidity of dumping.
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Offline bench

How do you *know* (instead of believe)? E. g. I believe that "MCR=1.01 -> 100% safe" is obviously untrue, because a drop of 2% in BTS price will lead to undercollateralization and destroy the peg.
Because the unlimited liquidity can always increase the CR faster, than the limited price drop!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 06:56:24 pm by bench »
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Offline pc

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We already know:
MCR = 2.0 -> low liquidity -> unsafe
MCR = 1.01 -> unlimited liquidity -> 100% safe

How do you *know* (instead of believe)? E. g. I believe that "MCR=1.01 -> 100% safe" is obviously untrue, because a drop of 2% in BTS price will lead to undercollateralization and destroy the peg.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline bench

I don't see how this worker would help the value of BTS.
Not only you see no value in this worker, but also the majority of the voters see now value in this worker proposal.

We already know:
MCR = 2.0 -> low liquidity -> unsafe
MCR = 1.01 -> unlimited liquidity -> 100% safe

Our problem is now liquidity and BTS price and not to set the parameter for MCR/MSSR!

My proposal does solve the problem by increasing the liquidity and the demand for BTS:
Margin position liquidity pool - https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/182
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 11:45:43 am by bench »
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!

Offline Ammar Yousef (ioBanker)

I invite everyone to look at how the top research institutions are attempting to establish cryptocurrency and DLT as an academic field and most importantly why. The MIT Media Lab are hosting the Cryptoeconomic Systems "Field Building Summit" 5-6 OCT [1]. Page 2 sets up the Problem and page 4 addresses the Solution. Companies are most willing to build on rigorously researched system designs. Lacking the establishment of what is fact and what remains an open question, this field will fail to advance to its potential.

The same is true for the BitShares Protocol.

As a member of the Core Team tasked with implementing the protocol, I can assure you that formal research and peer review will lead to more robust designs and result in implementation of the DeFi DeFi tools businesses will build upon and investors are willing to participate within.

[1] https://assets.pubpub.org/pbghqdg6/11562785633291.pdf

Thanks for sharing this Fox and for your continues great efforts, In my opinion we need to satisfy our own existing investors through stabilizing the price and putting a clear budgeting direction for our expenses with some basic accounting knowledge.

I agree with the vision that formal research is a very helpful thing but I don't see it helping at this stage, we need to approach business itself to satisfy BTS use cases.

I don't see how this worker would help the value of BTS.
Be part of the change and set bitshares-vision as your proxy!
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Offline Fox

I invite everyone to look at how the top research institutions are attempting to establish cryptocurrency and DLT as an academic field and most importantly why. The MIT Media Lab are hosting the Cryptoeconomic Systems "Field Building Summit" 5-6 OCT [1]. Page 2 sets up the Problem and page 4 addresses the Solution. Companies are most willing to build on rigorously researched system designs. Lacking the establishment of what is fact and what remains an open question, this field will fail to advance to its potential.

The same is true for the BitShares Protocol.

As a member of the Core Team tasked with implementing the protocol, I can assure you that formal research and peer review will lead to more robust designs and result in implementation of the DeFi DeFi tools businesses will build upon and investors are willing to participate within.

[1] https://assets.pubpub.org/pbghqdg6/11562785633291.pdf
Witness: fox

Offline bench

@biophil:

1. The MCR/MSSR parameter is only a small part of the equation. Before we can optimize these parameters, we need to define and design the system first.
2. Optimization of MCR/MSSR already happened and with the current system we don't have any real edge by tuning these parameters further.
3. Simulations are used, when there is
  • no understanding how the system works -> not the case
  • no live data available -> not the case
  • need to improve parameters -> already improved

4. What BitShares need is to implement new market mechanics. For MCR/MSSR this is a back tested algorithm (AI), which tries to minimize:
- System risk
- MCR
- Premium


A question back to you: How do you know that 1.5 and 1.01 are the sweet spot? Why not 1.2 and 1?
Because we had 1.5 CR for bitUSD after the second price drop.



my question is, why? why do you suppose 1.5 is the lowest, why do you know a lower MCR cannot be better?
MCR should be as low as possible and only as high as needed. Without improved market mechanics/liquidity, I see no room to go any lower than 1.5.

The committee should only set the weight distribution for system risk, liquidity and premium. The back tested AI algorithm tries to minimize the sum.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 05:00:15 pm by bench »
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Offline biophil

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@bench: you spoke very negatively about this worker in other threads, which leads me to believe that your mind is made up already. But I'm happy to answer anyway.

@biophil:
1. How can your theoretical model be applied to a market with external parameters?

There are two broad ways: the first is called a Monte Carlo simulation, and we're laying the groundwork for this already. We simulate the model with many different inputs for the various parameters, and see what outcomes occur. For example, if we run Monte Carlo simulations for many different market conditions on the current chain parameters and most of the outcomes have good pegging and liquidity, then that validates the current chain parameters.

The second way is more difficult, but we will try given funding: there is a major area of control theory called "robust control" where they study whether a system performs well for all kinds of disturbances. It is possible to show that certain kinds of control systems (airplane autopilots, for example) are robust and can avoid spiraling out of control no matter what nature does to them. We may be able to apply this theory to the BitShares system and describe exactly what kinds of market conditions are "safe" for BitAsset price pegs.

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2. How does your worker solve systematic market problems?

Our view is this: BitAssets will never be widely adopted if their users don't have confidence. If someone comes to you and says "why is MSSR set to 1.01?" and your answer is "we picked it randomly and it's been working fine for a while," that doesn't instill confidence. If instead you can say "we have run extensive simulations and advanced analysis and we have found that 1.01 provides the best balance between keeping the price down in bull markets and keeping the price up in bear markets," then you'll have something.

Quote
3. What options/solutions do you want to research?

I've been clear about this from the start, and I'm still proposing the same thing now that I was when I first announced. Take a look at the document linked in the first post of this thread.
Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline R

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I hope that your worker proposal can be reactivated soon, I support your research worker proposal 👍

Offline Digital Lucifer

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Hi Dr. brown,

i used to play with anytime algorithm for my graduate research in boston about 15 years ago. My supervisor Dr. eugene Eberbach told me my research was for  academic only . there were not  robotics that can use our research since none know where AI will go .  there will be the same situation you are facing as i faced  10 years ago in your upcoming bts research project.  My advice is  you can keep on taking this project and try to seeking fund form other source due to you won't be able to do any real help to  bts system and more importantly (lol) bts'e price is at less than 3 cent.  Bts system won't have enough money for non-profit research ......

Best regards

Twitter



I am pro research (0.5 year), but why should we finance a student and travel costs?

The worker already has 15k $ and it is unclear, which benefits the community gets from the worker.

One solution is here with the settlement fund: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/182
(Time to respond to my BSIP)
 
The main problem BTS has, is the deficit spending by overpriced workers, which dump BTS and don't bring any real value to the ecosystem.

Bench, maybe your mind is made up and an explanation wouldn't change it, but here you go:

In the US university system, practically all research is done by advanced PhD students; those students are directed by professors and paid a small stipend by external funding sources. The research is the student.

I wrote the Decentralized 2019 paper on my own time because I think the BitAsset problem is a very interesting one and I was making a good-faith effort to launch the project before funding arrived. Unfortunately, my own time is very limited, and unless an external funding source "buys" some of my official University time, I can't devote the many many hours that it will take to do justice to this problem. This is where the student comes in: he will spend the bulk of the time on the project, and he must be the first one to get paid -- I won't take a cent for myself from this worker unless he is funded full-time. Half-time funding isn't really appropriate for a PhD student.

To put this another way: your BSIP deserves more than my quick comments, but my in-depth comments will take time. Nonetheless, give me a few minutes and I will go write some quick comments on your BSIP.

Please read research and entire topic before you continue with your statements.

Chee®s
Milos (DL) Preocanin
Owner and manager of bitshares.org
Move Institute - RN: 2098555000
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