Author Topic: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS  (Read 712 times)

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Offline zhouxiaobao

Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« on: August 27, 2019, 09:11:14 am »
      According to rough statistics, the total amount of funds applied for by all of the workers this year is about 26 million yuan, and about 8 million yuan has been allocated.
     None of the projects have been fully allocated except for one worker named “steemfest”.
     Now the funding gap is more than 16 million yuan, and now the daily BTS trading volume is even less than 2 million yuan.It is clear that in such a flagging market, the withdrawal of such a large amount of money will inevitably lead to the collapse of BTS prices.
     In the end, these workers will not get enough money also, even if the vote went through.
     What's more, these workers are extremely corrupt, wasteful and inefficient. These worker's programmers, for example, earn more than $100 an hour.
      BEOS, who had about 350 million votes, voted for most of the workers ,I wish BEOS to reconsider his voting strategy.
      I appeal to all of you vote on "redund400k", to reduce this huge expenditure and rescue BTS.


     Here you can find out part of the amazing spending on these workers:
     https://workers.bitshares.foundation/
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 09:20:05 am by zhouxiaobao »

Offline xeroc

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2019, 09:28:25 am »
Please explain to me, the daily trading volume is 2M Yuan, and you complain about 16M being allocated over the next 6-12 months? Is that what you are saying?
Also, if you can find developers that can do high quality work for less than 100$/hr, please come forward with them. Surely none of our core developers would (and should) work for less (IMHO).
Quality has its price.

Also, BEOS has its own subforum, I suspect you can reach them there better.
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Offline ljk424

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2019, 09:44:07 am »
Beos for many great project budget voted, but without the largest contribution to the voting BTS + purse, Beos option is really in BTS, better, or in order to maximize their own interests? I can't understand, in fact, Beos are doing the very harmful for BTS community!

Offline pc

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2019, 12:15:53 pm »
      According to rough statistics, the total amount of funds applied for by all of the workers this year is about 26 million yuan, and about 8 million yuan has been allocated.
     None of the projects have been fully allocated except for one worker named “steemfest”.
     Now the funding gap is more than 16 million yuan, and now the daily BTS trading volume is even less than 2 million yuan.It is clear that in such a flagging market, the withdrawal of such a large amount of money will inevitably lead to the collapse of BTS prices.


Please double-check your maths. 2 million/day is 730 million/year. 26 million/year is 1/30th of that. How can that make the price collapse?
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Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2019, 12:43:59 pm »
Please explain to me, the daily trading volume is 2M Yuan, and you complain about 16M being allocated over the next 6-12 months? Is that what you are saying?
Also, if you can find developers that can do high quality work for less than 100$/hr, please come forward with them. Surely none of our core developers would (and should) work for less (IMHO).
Quality has its price.

Also, BEOS has its own subforum, I suspect you can reach them there better.

     You really don't know anything about finance. I spent all an afternoon the day before yesterday and sold BTS for 30, 000 yuan, and the price was smashed down  0.005 yuan. You said selling 16 million yuan had no effect on the price?
     The total recharge of the DEX this month is about 14 million, with more than 13 million withdrawals. In a month, the inflow of capital is no more than 1 million yuan (fortunately, it is still an inflow), you said you withdraw 16 million, the price will not collapse?
      Of course, you can get a high salary if the job is really effective. But I would like to ask, last year BTS spent about 20 million yuan, this year has spent 8 million yuan, so much money, what are the effects ah?The effect is that prices have fallen more than any other smart coins?

Offline roelandp

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2019, 12:46:34 pm »
           None of the projects have been fully allocated except for one worker named “steemfest”.
   

Hi, thanks for voicing your opinion. The worker SteemFest has not yet met its target - it is an error on the website. Currently about 40% of CNY is claimable for the worker.

It's pretty unfortunate to see after last weeks discussion that we are now back at this point. Obviously it's everyone's chain, so I respect the decision raise the bar of the 400K refunder, but I would like to voice my opinion which I voiced elsewhere on Telegram earlier today:

I mean not BTS dying, but the worker system? I mean now the infrastructure worker is voted out again for example. This is actual infrastructure paid for by the blockchain. Servers. Machines :) (edit: apparently the infrastructure has enough BTS to be funded until end of december).

 This wobbly yes/no voting raising / lowering the refund bar will certainly shake out enough people to not trust the system and build stuff for BTS funded by the worker proposal system.

Anyhow I respect the change, I just think axing many projects in the middle of funding is a bad signal.

Another way to approach this is: —— ok we did some bad votings... Lets stay low for a while. Starting at X date (when those "bad votes" are done) we will raise the refunder bar to go into another direction.


For example the Decentralized Greece worker has Bitshares all over it on their website. The whole event is counting on the funding (I guess). The SteemFest worker (smaller) is also been announced and executing the milestones, but with today's cut will have to rethink that.

I think it's great to voice the concerns, and act accordingly, but to punish organisations and people who are already counting on the funds and doing their jobs is imho a faster way to have BTS collapse. "Bitshares, aren't they your co-host for this years event?" -- "no that went awry, in the middle of the funding process, they decided else, can't be trusted". <--- Is what IMHO the narrative will be.  I think the "review period" is the period where these remarks should be made and / or the refunder should be raised.

Please note above is my opinion. I respect yours. But I hope you will reconsider a little more mildness for the sake of BTS !

thanks, have a nice evening.

Offline roelandp

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2019, 01:02:08 pm »
Ok the Decentralized Greece worker has been voted back in, thats a good signal. Personally i would be happy to see SteemFest also voted back in, but i'm biased :)

see the worker proposal here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28660.0

thx.

Offline zhouxiaobao

Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2019, 03:39:58 pm »
      I think our differences lie mainly in our different positions.

      I hold bts, so I want to raise the price, and you are workers, do not own bts, so you do not care about the price.You want to get paid by  worker.

      Similarly, the BTS in the BEOS account is not his own, and he doesn't care about the price too. He just wants to take money from workers.

     I hope all BEOS supporters will realize this.

Offline roelandp

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2019, 07:28:48 pm »
      I think our differences lie mainly in our different positions.

      I hold bts, so I want to raise the price, and you are workers, do not own bts, so you do not care about the price.You want to get paid by  worker.

      Similarly, the BTS in the BEOS account is not his own, and he doesn't care about the price too. He just wants to take money from workers.

     I hope all BEOS supporters will realize this.

Yes I do hold BTS, about 500K across a couple of accounts, I'm vested in this platform and thats why I would like to promote it.

Offline Customminer

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2019, 08:24:23 pm »
What's more, these workers are extremely corrupt, wasteful and inefficient.
This statement is outright false, cease spreading FUD. As far as I'm aware, none of the recently de-activated (nor currently active) worker proposals are corrupt nor wasteful/inefficient. Don't make accusations without evidence.

From my personal experience, I've found that the core & UI development worker proposals are excellent value for money, they have addressed multiple issues I've reported in a timely manner on github and have aided the resolution of multiple high severity security vulnerabilities reported through hackthedex in the last year.

See large quantity of releases completed thanks to worker proposals:
https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-core/releases
https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-ui/releases

Look at the security vulnerabilities which no longer affect you thanks to worker proposals: (More to come)
https://hackthedex.io/#/reports

The cost of worker proposals is appropriate for specialist contractors working with uncertain employment conditions. If you believe you can achieve more work for less money, submit a worker proposal for such work or stop complaining.

I appeal to all of you vote on "redund400k", to reduce this huge expenditure and rescue BTS.
Worker payment is not the source of BTS price downtrend, do not spread fake information.

Rather than scuttling all ongoing worker proposals (massively disrupting BTS development & marketing), you could instead request that the committee re-balances thereferrer:network fee distribution from 80:20 so that the reserve pool funds grow.

By voting for voter400k you choose austerity rather than innovation; austerity as an economic policy fundamentally does not work. By voting for refund400k you send the wrong signal to investors. Furthermore by voting for refund400k you risk the network and your own security as severe security risks reported through the Hackthedex worker may go unresolved.

I think our differences lie mainly in our different positions.
I hold bts, so I want to raise the price, and you are workers, do not own bts, so you do not care about the price.You want to get paid by  worker.
I disagree with your positions entirely, and I've held BTS long term. Worker proposals are not the source of negative price trends, don't spread that misinformation. I've been paid by worker proposals and largely just held the bitUSD since being paid rather than dump it instantly.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 08:27:14 pm by Customminer »

Offline ioBanker

Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2019, 10:13:41 am »
WE ARE ADDRESSING THE ULTIMATE ISSUE AND THE SOLUTION HERE: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29379.0

Please participate.
Be part of the change and vote for the bitshares-vision proxy!
Committee account: iobanker-core
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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2019, 10:50:40 am »
From my personal experience, I've found that the core & UI development worker proposals are excellent value for money

What is ROI of those investments? Nobody argues they brought some value, but have they returned the money invested?

Offline Customminer

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2019, 03:43:56 pm »
From my personal experience, I've found that the core & UI development worker proposals are excellent value for money

What is ROI of those investments? Nobody argues they brought some value, but have they returned the money invested?

Their purpose isn't a temporary loan, the reserve pool is constantly being topped by by network fees & worker proposals aren't the source of price downtrend.

In terms of the return on money invested, you could consider the absence of stolen user funds certainly as a positive. If the hackthedex & ui worker proposals hadn't existed then the security of BTS would be in a worse state.

Voting for refund400k will cause BTS price depreciation and irrecoverable WP states. Instead request your committee members rebalance the referrer:network fee distribution towards funding the reserve pool if you (illogically) want to grow the reserve pool.

Offline Thul3

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2019, 03:48:40 pm »
Quote
If the hackthedex & ui worker proposals hadn't existed then the security of BTS would be in a worse state.

Wasn't the reported issues only low security issues ?

Offline Customminer

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Re: Huge spending will lead to the collapse of BTS
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2019, 04:05:54 pm »
Quote
If the hackthedex & ui worker proposals hadn't existed then the security of BTS would be in a worse state.

Wasn't the reported issues only low security issues ?
Heck no. Look: https://hackthedex.io/#/reports

Nobody should be using a client version older than a few months ago, fact.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 07:03:27 pm by Customminer »