Author Topic: AVG2907 dumping price massivly ?  (Read 6874 times)

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Offline binggo

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One shot kill to BTS use so little money!

en, very very interesting.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 10:48:56 pm by binggo »

Offline Thul3

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Offline sschiessl

avg moved BTS to poloniex again ...

Offline Thul3

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AVG moving again 2 million BTS to poloniex.From there again bigger amount to Binance.
The true is, we can't stop him.

Maybe he like to do these thing.


Great post.

AVG is moving BTS to poloniex again
A liquid market of major assets and arbitrage bot could stop it.
In my opinion a key factor for bitshares to stop these dumps and create real price support.
Getting active instead of waiting.

Using DEXBot to make the market between bitUSD and OPEN.USDT

DEXBot bitUSD:OPEN.USDT Market Making
Permie

1. What are bitUSD and USDT?

1.1 bitUSD is a USD-pegged SmartCoin that is created by locking bts as collateral and bitUSD being issued as a loan.

1.2 USDT is a USD-pegged cryptocurrency that is in very popular use in the Cryptosphere as the favoured price stable asset.

2. Market Making bitUSD against USDT:

2.1 See jonnybitcoin’s excellent article here: https://steemit.com/bitshares/@jonnybitcoin/liquidity-liquidity-liquidity

2.1.1 “Bitshares is superior to other exchanges because it uses BitUSD which has no human liability and is decentralised. But this advantage means little if our BitUSD is not available to buy in quantity near the peg. A liquid asset is cash on hand or an asset that can be readily converted to cash. An asset that can readily be converted into cash is similar to cash itself because the asset can be sold with little impact on its value.”

2.1.2 “We need to make BitUSD a liquid asset. But how?”

2.1.3 “The best way to show people BitUSD is worth 1 USD is to create a market where BitUSD trades against a bearer asset that is worth 1 USD. That would be USDT (see www.tether.to) Bearer asset = Doesn't need to be kept in a named account.”

3. The bitUSD:OPEN.USDT Market on the DEX:



4. Recently in the BitShares community there has been a lot of discussion on price decreases caused by high sell pressure when bts whales want to cash out of bts into a Centralised EXchange.

4.1 The price-feed used to calculate the margin call price of BitShares Flagship assets bitCNY and bitUSD are obtained from the trade prices across major CEX’s that list bts. If bts on these CEX’s are dumped and lowers the price; the price feed on the DEX is also dumped - calling more margin positions.

4.2 These called margin positions then dump (sometimes large) amounts of bts onto the DEX, further decreasing the price and moving the market-price on the DEX far away from the “price feed” (bts-price on CEX’s).

4.3 The difference between the “feed price” and the DEX “market price” of bitUSD is known as the “premium”. A lower bts:USD market-price on the DEX than that which is available on the CEX’s-used-for-price-feeds means that bitUSD becomes worth 1-5% more than 1USD. This is due to the fact that bitUSD held on the DEX can buy more bts (because the DEX bts price is lower) than could be bought on a CEX using USD or USDT.

4.3.1 The bitUSD:USDT price reflects this premium. If bitUSD is trading at 1.01USDT, this means bitUSD is worth 1% more than $1.

5. The DEX needs liquidity against major assets that are widely available on CEX’s. The top 11 most active markets for bts across CEX’s are all either BTC or USDT.

5.1 A liquid market for USDT:bitUSD on the DEX makes it easy for CEX holders to trade into the DEX and away from the CEX. If a trader on a particular CEX is worried about the risk of their CEX going bankrupt, they need a way to move exchanges.

5.1.1 The vast majority of CEX’s list USDT, and USDT is often a primary trading pair against a wide range of cryptocurrencies. This means to migrate from one exchange to another traders can sell all of their assets for USDT, transfer USDT to their destination exchange, and then reallocate their portfolio once there.

5.1.2 The DEX needs to offer an easy way for “fleeing” traders to make the choice that the DEX should be their destination exchange. The “easy” way is for these traders to see that they can transfer USDT into the DEX just as they would any CEX.

5.1.3 Alongside all the many benefits of the DEX, a trader seeing that not only can they leave CEX’s but that they can also leave USDT in favour of a decentralised stablecoin bitUSD is further incentive to come to the DEX to trade.

5.1.4 This can only happen if there is a highly liquid USDT market active on the DEX. Sending USDT to the DEX and having nowhere to trade it for a reasonable price causes the trader to rethink their decision to try the DEX.

5.2 The most liquid USDT asset available on the DEX for trading is OPEN.USDT. DEXBot could help. DEXBot allows its users to provide liquidity to the bitUSD:USDT market.

5.3 A whale moving large amounts of bts onto a CEX in order to be sold can cause big problems for the price feed.

5.3.1 If these whales see that they can instead move from DEX to CEX via USDT, the problem is lessened, as the selling of bts for USDT would occur on the DEX and not affect the price feed.

6. Another prominent issue on the DEX is that the circulating supply of SmartCoins is often not sufficient for large bitCNY debtors to buy back the bitCNY they owe to the blockchain in order to settle or lower their debts and avoid margin call.

6.1 A liquid bitUSD:USDT market increases the circulating supply of SmartCoins and helps to address this issue.

6.2 bitUSD is traded heavily on the DEX against bitCNY. Any liquidity for bitUSD against external assets is also good for bitCNY; as bitUSD can be quickly traded for bitCNY with minimal slippage.

6.2.1 bitCNY debtors who also trade on CEX’s therefore benefit from a liquid bitUSD:USDT market; as they would be able to transfer additional funds to the DEX via USDT in order to service their debts.

7. The bitUSD:OPEN.USDT market generally has low volatility because OPEN.USDT and bitUSD both have the same face value of $1. They should be equal to each other plus the current bitUSD premium.

8. How to configure DEXBot to facilitate USDT to bitUSD trade:



8.1 The bitUSD:OPEN.USDT market will fluctuate in price, and the bid or ask may sometimes exceed 1. This makes it difficult to set a fixed centreprice.

8.2 However, DEXBot, allows the spread and centre price to be calculated from the orderbook at a particular depth. Choosing to calculate the spread using the “dynamic spread” tickbox (shown in orange in the example image above) tells DEXBot to view the orderbook and place orders at the same spread as other traders that provide a given amount of liquidity. In the above example $500 market depth.

8.3 DEXBot also allows the centreprice to be configured according to the market depth of the orderbook. Shown in yellow in the above example. Setting both the centre price and spread to be calculated from the orderbook at a market depth of $500 tells DEXBot to offer a competitive spread regardless of how the market fluctuates.

8.4 After configuring the Relative Orders strategy to trade the USD:OPEN.USDT market and saving the settings, pressing the “Turn worker on” button let’s DEXBot start making offers. Shown in green in the above example.

The CEX-DEX Arbitrage and "Mirrored Arbitrage" features for DEXBot are in development and will further assist by creating tools to improve the liquidity on the DEX and help to lower the SmartCoin premiums.

Offline Permie22

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AVG moving again 2 million BTS to poloniex.From there again bigger amount to Binance.
The true is, we can't stop him.

Maybe he like to do these thing.

A liquid market of major assets and arbitrage bot could stop it.
In my opinion a key factor for bitshares to stop these dumps and create real price support.
Getting active instead of waiting.

Using DEXBot to make the market between bitUSD and OPEN.USDT

DEXBot bitUSD:OPEN.USDT Market Making
Permie

1. What are bitUSD and USDT?

1.1 bitUSD is a USD-pegged SmartCoin that is created by locking bts as collateral and bitUSD being issued as a loan.

1.2 USDT is a USD-pegged cryptocurrency that is in very popular use in the Cryptosphere as the favoured price stable asset.

2. Market Making bitUSD against USDT:

2.1 See jonnybitcoin’s excellent article here: https://steemit.com/bitshares/@jonnybitcoin/liquidity-liquidity-liquidity

2.1.1 “Bitshares is superior to other exchanges because it uses BitUSD which has no human liability and is decentralised. But this advantage means little if our BitUSD is not available to buy in quantity near the peg. A liquid asset is cash on hand or an asset that can be readily converted to cash. An asset that can readily be converted into cash is similar to cash itself because the asset can be sold with little impact on its value.”

2.1.2 “We need to make BitUSD a liquid asset. But how?”

2.1.3 “The best way to show people BitUSD is worth 1 USD is to create a market where BitUSD trades against a bearer asset that is worth 1 USD. That would be USDT (see www.tether.to) Bearer asset = Doesn't need to be kept in a named account.”

3. The bitUSD:OPEN.USDT Market on the DEX:



4. Recently in the BitShares community there has been a lot of discussion on price decreases caused by high sell pressure when bts whales want to cash out of bts into a Centralised EXchange.

4.1 The price-feed used to calculate the margin call price of BitShares Flagship assets bitCNY and bitUSD are obtained from the trade prices across major CEX’s that list bts. If bts on these CEX’s are dumped and lowers the price; the price feed on the DEX is also dumped - calling more margin positions.

4.2 These called margin positions then dump (sometimes large) amounts of bts onto the DEX, further decreasing the price and moving the market-price on the DEX far away from the “price feed” (bts-price on CEX’s).

4.3 The difference between the “feed price” and the DEX “market price” of bitUSD is known as the “premium”. A lower bts:USD market-price on the DEX than that which is available on the CEX’s-used-for-price-feeds means that bitUSD becomes worth 1-5% more than 1USD. This is due to the fact that bitUSD held on the DEX can buy more bts (because the DEX bts price is lower) than could be bought on a CEX using USD or USDT.

4.3.1 The bitUSD:USDT price reflects this premium. If bitUSD is trading at 1.01USDT, this means bitUSD is worth 1% more than $1.

5. The DEX needs liquidity against major assets that are widely available on CEX’s. The top 11 most active markets for bts across CEX’s are all either BTC or USDT.

5.1 A liquid market for USDT:bitUSD on the DEX makes it easy for CEX holders to trade into the DEX and away from the CEX. If a trader on a particular CEX is worried about the risk of their CEX going bankrupt, they need a way to move exchanges.

5.1.1 The vast majority of CEX’s list USDT, and USDT is often a primary trading pair against a wide range of cryptocurrencies. This means to migrate from one exchange to another traders can sell all of their assets for USDT, transfer USDT to their destination exchange, and then reallocate their portfolio once there.

5.1.2 The DEX needs to offer an easy way for “fleeing” traders to make the choice that the DEX should be their destination exchange. The “easy” way is for these traders to see that they can transfer USDT into the DEX just as they would any CEX.

5.1.3 Alongside all the many benefits of the DEX, a trader seeing that not only can they leave CEX’s but that they can also leave USDT in favour of a decentralised stablecoin bitUSD is further incentive to come to the DEX to trade.

5.1.4 This can only happen if there is a highly liquid USDT market active on the DEX. Sending USDT to the DEX and having nowhere to trade it for a reasonable price causes the trader to rethink their decision to try the DEX.

5.2 The most liquid USDT asset available on the DEX for trading is OPEN.USDT. DEXBot could help. DEXBot allows its users to provide liquidity to the bitUSD:USDT market.

5.3 A whale moving large amounts of bts onto a CEX in order to be sold can cause big problems for the price feed.

5.3.1 If these whales see that they can instead move from DEX to CEX via USDT, the problem is lessened, as the selling of bts for USDT would occur on the DEX and not affect the price feed.

6. Another prominent issue on the DEX is that the circulating supply of SmartCoins is often not sufficient for large bitCNY debtors to buy back the bitCNY they owe to the blockchain in order to settle or lower their debts and avoid margin call.

6.1 A liquid bitUSD:USDT market increases the circulating supply of SmartCoins and helps to address this issue.

6.2 bitUSD is traded heavily on the DEX against bitCNY. Any liquidity for bitUSD against external assets is also good for bitCNY; as bitUSD can be quickly traded for bitCNY with minimal slippage.

6.2.1 bitCNY debtors who also trade on CEX’s therefore benefit from a liquid bitUSD:USDT market; as they would be able to transfer additional funds to the DEX via USDT in order to service their debts.

7. The bitUSD:OPEN.USDT market generally has low volatility because OPEN.USDT and bitUSD both have the same face value of $1. They should be equal to each other plus the current bitUSD premium.

8. How to configure DEXBot to facilitate USDT to bitUSD trade:



8.1 The bitUSD:OPEN.USDT market will fluctuate in price, and the bid or ask may sometimes exceed 1. This makes it difficult to set a fixed centreprice.

8.2 However, DEXBot, allows the spread and centre price to be calculated from the orderbook at a particular depth. Choosing to calculate the spread using the “dynamic spread” tickbox (shown in orange in the example image above) tells DEXBot to view the orderbook and place orders at the same spread as other traders that provide a given amount of liquidity. In the above example $500 market depth.

8.3 DEXBot also allows the centreprice to be configured according to the market depth of the orderbook. Shown in yellow in the above example. Setting both the centre price and spread to be calculated from the orderbook at a market depth of $500 tells DEXBot to offer a competitive spread regardless of how the market fluctuates.

8.4 After configuring the Relative Orders strategy to trade the USD:OPEN.USDT market and saving the settings, pressing the “Turn worker on” button let’s DEXBot start making offers. Shown in green in the above example.

The CEX-DEX Arbitrage and "Mirrored Arbitrage" features for DEXBot are in development and will further assist by creating tools to improve the liquidity on the DEX and help to lower the SmartCoin premiums.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 05:31:55 pm by Permie22 »

Offline binggo

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https://bts.ai/u/openledger-ops

https://bts.ai/u/openledger-corporate

So,workers.bitshares.foundation dump bts in the DEX to get bitcny/bitusd,and then pay bitusd/bitcny to openledger-corporate

the openledger-ops buy bts in DEX,then dump bts in binance-bts-1?

This was part of the bitshares-core worker, which OpenLedger actively contributes to. This payment was for invoice 23_Invoice_20190731_OL on https://workers.bitshares.foundation/201902-bitshares-core

I know this.

I'm curious of this operation!
There are bitusd/bitcny, bitusd/open.usdt, bitcny/GDEX.BTC, bitcny/OPEN.BTC market, but he chose to buy BTS in DEX and then dump BTS in binance for BTC?!!!

OpenLedger?!

Very interesting!

I give friend a kinfe, but the friend STAB me in the back!!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 10:03:51 am by binggo »

Offline sschiessl

https://bts.ai/u/openledger-ops

https://bts.ai/u/openledger-corporate

So,workers.bitshares.foundation dump bts in the DEX to get bitcny/bitusd,and then pay bitusd/bitcny to openledger-corporate

the openledger-ops buy bts in DEX,then dump bts in binance-bts-1?

This was part of the bitshares-core worker, which OpenLedger actively contributes to. This payment was for invoice 23_Invoice_20190731_OL on https://workers.bitshares.foundation/201902-bitshares-core

Offline clockwork

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https://bts.ai/u/openledger-ops

https://bts.ai/u/openledger-corporate

So,workers.bitshares.foundation dump bts in the DEX to get bitcny/bitusd,and then pay bitusd/bitcny to openledger-corporate

the openledger-ops buy bts in DEX,then dump bts in binance-bts-1?

Payments for OL's contributions to core dev.

https://workers.bitshares.foundation/201902-bitshares-core

Offline binggo

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https://bts.ai/u/openledger-ops

https://bts.ai/u/openledger-corporate

So,workers.bitshares.foundation dump bts in the DEX to get bitcny/bitusd,and then pay bitusd/bitcny to openledger-corporate

the openledger-ops buy bts in DEX,then dump bts in binance-bts-1?

« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 09:08:17 am by binggo »

Offline binggo

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That's true.

Avg2907 is not the main reason,Someone sold bts above 400k+, the purpose is to eat the mortgage at a low price.

Offline bitProfessor

Avg2907 is not the main reason,Someone sold bts above 400k+, the purpose is to eat the mortgage at a low price.

Offline binggo

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https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/194
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/161
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/164

I think these bsips can help to fix the flaw,so dump 3M bts will not very easy to trgger margin call of 30M BTS.

FLAW alway exsit,if he didn't want any profit and just want to dump it.

It looks like a flaw in the design of MPA that it's possible to dump 3M BTS to trigger margin call of 30M of BTS. My solution to this flaw was BSIP42: do not trigger margin calls when it's "unfair", either by reducing MCR or by feeding higher price. However, in a down trend, this solution may increase the possibility of a black swan event, which is again decided by the trading price regardless of liquidity or volume thus suffers the same flaw. On the other hand, it's hard to judge what's "fair", whether the reason to "protect" the debt position holders is strong enough.

Obviously, there is lack of incentive for traders to buy BTS. We need to attract capital to buy BTS, which is the only way to prevent the price from dropping. So the question become: what are the reasons for people to buy BTS or to hold BTS? How to value the BTS token, and how to add value to it? On this topic, I wrote some thoughts recently:
* https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/194
* https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/191
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 12:12:19 am by binggo »

Offline binggo

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this solution may increase the possibility of a black swan event
Global Settlement*. Since BSIP18 the black swan scenario has solutions, thus this term is outdated.

Global Settlement is a bad solutions, it can't solve any problem, if it can, so let we check the bitbtc and bitgold.

Offline binggo

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First step:
Implement this BSIP:https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/161

Third step:
Implement these BSIP:
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/164
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/194
Why are you so ignorant ? Adding a penalty to margin positions with a margin call fee, does the exact opposite. Suppresses price further.

The solution is already in front of you, but you are blind:
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/182

You still didn't understand the market and somthing, blind is your heart.

If you want argument, so let's do it all the day.

Don't act like a kid in thougt and action, and I didn't have interest in your BSIP which i have thought and polish long long time ago...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 11:36:53 pm by binggo »

Offline R

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this solution may increase the possibility of a black swan event
Global Settlement*. Since BSIP18 the black swan scenario has solutions, thus this term is outdated.