Author Topic: Committee Fund Operation Review  (Read 14181 times)

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Offline Bangzi

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2019, 02:22:31 pm »
* BBF wants to pay bitCNY to workers according to the terms defined in the workers, the biggest part is for the core dev worker.

If BBF didn't accept the solution because they want to follow what is written in black and white, then just do an amendment WP to change the payout term from BitCNY to BTS. Voted in the WP for 7 days then consider community agree to change the term.
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Offline binggo

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2019, 07:33:30 pm »
They can trade:
bitcny to QC in ZB
bitcny to CNC in AEX, which publish in BTS chain.
The better way is which trade bitcny to GDEX.USDT, maybe can find someone to help this deal.

Now pay 600K bitcny to get 2.5M BTS or more, can provent these bts dump to the market. We have already see what have happened by AVG2907 dumping the market with 2M BTS.
After get these 2.5M BTS, the market fee can pay back these debt until close this position.

OR,

The BBF can borrow 600K bitcny itself,  and the market fee will not buy back bts from market and will pay back the BBF debt as now market price(0.24bitcny) , when the BBF this debt was closed with 600K bitcny from the market fee, the BBF must send 2.5M BTS to committee-account.
Something like Forward Contract.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 02:00:39 am by binggo »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2019, 01:46:38 am »
The BBF can borrow 600K bitcny itself,  and the market fee will not buy back bts from market and will pay back the BBF debt as now market price(0.24bitcny) , when the BBF this debt was closed with 600K bitcny from the market feed, the BBF must send 2.5M BTS to committee-account.
Something like Forward Contract.

too complex, it will cost 5 months for committee-account to collect 600k bitCNY fee. I believe BBF prefer to sell in the market instead of waiting for 5 months.

committee-account is more suitable in managing a debt position than others as it has continuous smartcoin income.

it's good if BBF can directly pay BTS as salary to workers, however, I believe we still need to discuss the possibility and sense for committee-account to manage a debt position.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2019, 03:01:53 pm »
I created a proposal 1.10.47901 to borrow 20K bitUSD with collateralizing 2M BTS, margin call price = 0.015USD, far below GS price. hope committee members can check.

the intention is to use the borrowed bitUSD to close the debt position of committee-usdoperator to remove the margin call risk, and get the 1.01M BTS back to committee-account.

It is not a good selection for committee-account to reject any debt position management.

when there is big amount of BTS accumulated in committee-account, if these BTS just stay there, it will not help the ecosystem and is a waste.

if we borrow some amount of smartcoin with taking good care of the risk, and use the borrowed smartcoin to buy back BTS in good price, it will greatly support the smartcoin ecosystem.

committee-account is suitable to do so as it has continuous smartcoin income.

to control the risk, I suggest a principle for managing debt position:

1. margin call price should not be higher than GS price, otherwise all the income will be used to reduce the margin call price.
2. margin call price should not be higher than 0.03 price, which is the price bottom in the last 1.5 years.

yes, even so it is also possible that the margin call will happen, but if the feed price go below 0.015USD, hundreds of millions of BTS collaterals are already margin called, it is a disaster, the margin call of millions of committee BTS do not make the things much worse.

but the "borrowing and buy back BTS" activity can help to reduce the possibility of BTS price go below 0.015USD, although the possibility is already very low.

I hope everyone can also consider the worker issue, "do not support any big workers when BTS price is under 0.3CNY" is close to a consensus in China community, if we want a healthy BTS ecosystem, we need to try to find ways to sustain BTS price, for example, charge margin call trading to add system income to support the BTS buy back.

and "borrowing and buy back BTS" is also part of the efforts.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2019, 06:47:45 am »
as there are already 9175 bitUSD in committee-account, now created a proposal to borrow 10000bitUSD due to request of some committee members:

1.10.48190 | Expires: 27 Sep 16:26
bitcrab created a proposal:
Change committee-account bitUSD debt by 10,000.0000 bitUSD and collateral by 1,500,000.00000 BTS, margin call price = 0.01USD.

the borrowed 10K bitUSD will be used to close the debt position in committee-usdoperator and get the 1.01M BTS back to committee-account.

hope committee members can check.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 09:16:10 am by bitcrab »
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2019, 04:58:56 pm »
A new proposal is created to borrow 300K CNY, which will be used to buy back BTS.

1.10.48435 | Expires: 1 Oct 16:38
bitcrab created a proposal:
Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 300,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 4,000,000.00000 BTS, margin call price = 0.12CNY

With the accumulation of BTS in committee-account, we need to consider how to use it to contribute most to the ecosystem.

now almost 6M BTS in committee-account, when BSIP74 is active, more BTS will come as the margin call fee, community and committee has vetoed the idea to burn the accumulated BTS, borrowing smartcoin and buy back BTS is one good selection when the price is at bottom.

history shows that the current BTS price is at bottom

the lowest price at 7th Dec 2018 - 0.2175CNY is also the lowest price in more than 2 years. the last time BTS hits this price was at 7th, May, 2017.

after the price fell across 0.55CNY at Nov, 2018, in long time BTS price moves in a bound pattern, now the price is at 0.236CNY, only 10% above the bottom price.

it's reasonable to regard 0.2175CNY as a historical bottom price and this moment is a good time to buy back BTS.




 

risk control consideration:

1. margin call price should not be higher than GS price, otherwise all the income will be used to reduce the margin call price.
2. margin call price should not be higher than 0.2175CNY, which is the price bottom in the last 2.5 years.

even in the worst case that BTS price fall below 0.12CNY, hundreds of millions of collateralized BTS will be margin called, it will be a big disaster, the margin call of this millions of BTS do not add much to the disaster, it's acceptable.

and I'd like to reminder, to borrow and release bitCNY to the market at enough low margin call price can reduce the possibility that BTS price fall below the bottom price.

hope committee members can check and support this proposal.

 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 05:08:17 pm by bitcrab »
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2019, 10:57:29 am »
A proposal is created to borrow 810K bitCNY with CR=1.61.

1.10.50600 | Expires: 28 Oct 09:59

Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 810,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 5,927,727.27273 BTS


borrowing smartcoin to buy back BTS is one method to make the accumulated funds in committee-account to contribute to the ecosystem.

in the past, this method is always opposed because no one know which margin call price is safe enough.

but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

if we use the initial 5.96M BTS to continue the borrow and buy back loop, finally committee-account can buy more than 10M BTS , not a very small volume. this worth doing at current market status.

however, there are some other questions need to answer:

1.bitCNY has a almost 10% devaluation, will this operation release more bitCNY to markets and make even more serious devaluation?


bitCNY devaluated because the market price is lower than the threshold feed price, the buying back operation intended to absorb more BTS liquidity from market, not to pull up the price, releasing of several millions of bitCNY do not have obvious impact on bitCNY devaluation.

the devaluation will end after the market price go above 0.22CNY, if we begin the operation after that moment, we will pay higher price in the trading, so now it is better to begin the operation just now.

2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.

Committee members, please check this proposal and vote according to your opinion.



« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 11:02:23 am by bitcrab »
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Offline yamtt

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2019, 11:19:49 am »
A proposal is created to borrow 810K bitCNY with CR=1.61.

1.10.50600 | Expires: 28 Oct 09:59

Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 810,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 5,927,727.27273 BTS


borrowing smartcoin to buy back BTS is one method to make the accumulated funds in committee-account to contribute to the ecosystem.

in the past, this method is always opposed because no one know which margin call price is safe enough.

but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

if we use the initial 5.96M BTS to continue the borrow and buy back loop, finally committee-account can buy more than 10M BTS , not a very small volume. this worth doing at current market status.

however, there are some other questions need to answer:

1.bitCNY has a almost 10% devaluation, will this operation release more bitCNY to markets and make even more serious devaluation?


bitCNY devaluated because the market price is lower than the threshold feed price, the buying back operation intended to absorb more BTS liquidity from market, not to pull up the price, releasing of several millions of bitCNY do not have obvious impact on bitCNY devaluation.

the devaluation will end after the market price go above 0.22CNY, if we begin the operation after that moment, we will pay higher price in the trading, so now it is better to begin the operation just now.

2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.

Committee members, please check this proposal and vote according to your opinion.

Reasonable support for repurchase and use of workers to engage in trading contests

有理有据 支持回购 和用worker来搞交易大赛
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 11:30:12 am by yamtt »

Offline pc

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2019, 12:13:59 pm »
> but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

The threshold price is not set for eternity. See e. g. this proposal: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/244
If this gets accepted the committee debt posiition would instantly be margin called. Also note that the external price for BTS is less than 0.19 CNY whereas when selling CNY on the DEX you have to pay 0.202 CNY/BTS. In other words, the committee would lose more than 6% with this deal, even without BTS going down.
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Offline abit

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2019, 12:16:04 pm »
2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.
Just to clarify, the MM contest according to current proposed rules will need **up to** 1.8M BTS per month. Actually I would expect the real expense would be much less due to the strict rules. I don't know why you supposed it need 10M BTS.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2019, 01:09:03 pm »
2. won't the funds be used at the market making contest?

I suggest the MM contest to create a worker to get funds. suppose the contest need 10M BTS, it's better that 10M BTS are released from worker and being bought back buy committee-account, than just releasing the 7M BTS in committee-account to market.
Just to clarify, the MM contest according to current proposed rules will need **up to** 1.8M BTS per month. Actually I would expect the real expense would be much less due to the strict rules. I don't know why you supposed it need 10M BTS.

1.8M per month means 10M in half a year, so it's not reluctant to suppose 10M, right?

and it's just to take a value as example to explain something. the same logic if suppose 5M or less.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2019, 01:17:30 pm »
> but now, we have threshold feed price, which remove the problem, and now we can borrow with margin call price < threshold feed price without worrying margin call.

The threshold price is not set for eternity. See e. g. this proposal: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/244
If this gets accepted the committee debt posiition would instantly be margin called. Also note that the external price for BTS is less than 0.19 CNY whereas when selling CNY on the DEX you have to pay 0.202 CNY/BTS. In other words, the committee would lose more than 6% with this deal, even without BTS going down.

so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.
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Offline JohnR

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2019, 01:36:37 pm »
This is a good time to revisit the options on bitCNY.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28606.msg335626#msg335626

Offline Sapiens

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2019, 09:09:49 pm »
so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

Offline blockchained

Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2019, 10:46:55 pm »
so that means we need another BSIP to set the threshold feed price for eternity, or it can be increased but not be lowered?

0.202 bitCNY/BTS is cheap even when the market price is 0.19, we can buy at 0.22bitCNY/BTS when market price go to 0.22 without pay additional price , but I think it's not hard to tell which price is better.

Man, I really feel compassion for you. You have become an addict to gambling and now you are trying to gamble with committee's account, under the exact same strategy that got your ass burned. It doesn't matter at this moment if your strategy works or not. You have lost any sense of ethics or truthfulness.

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