Author Topic: Committee Fund Operation Review  (Read 840 times)

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Offline bitcrab

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Committee Fund Operation Review
« on: September 10, 2019, 06:15:32 pm »
committee-account has bought back BTS with the accumulated bitCNY for weeks.

Burning BTS has not got enough support and can be ignored.

Creating and managing a debt position is not supported up to now.

So seems what committee-account can do in this area is just "buy while cheap and sell while expensive".

Even so, there are also topics need to discuss, like what price is cheap and what price is expense, and others.

This thread is to provide a place to discuss the relevant topics.
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Offline binggo

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 08:56:45 am »
We just need to buy back BTS for now.

Other usages maybe we need a long time to think about.

Online Bangzi

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 09:10:21 am »
We need to make comparison before determine BTS price is cheap or expensive. Below is simple and effective comparison method since BTS aim to surpass BTC.

If BTS Market Cap more than BTC Market Cap, then is Expensive.
If BTS Market Cap less than BTC Market Cap, then is Cheap.
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 09:17:50 am »
We need to make comparison before determine BTS price is cheap or expensive. Below is simple and effective comparison method since BTS aim to surpass BTC.

If BTS Market Cap more than BTC Market Cap, then is Expensive.
If BTS Market Cap less than BTC Market Cap, then is Cheap.

emm, good, so you mean BTS is always cheap since its birth, never be expensive up to now. :)

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 03:40:58 am »
I also would like to talk the possibility of managing a debt position. even I am aware that almost everyone try to avoid it.

say, now with 5.77M BTS, it we  set margin call price = 0.1CNY, 460K bitCNY can be borrowed.

good to buy back BTS with these bitCNY?

as there are continuous bitCNY fee income to committee-account, the risk is very very low.

surely 5.77M BTS is not so much, either to use it will give little impact, but after BSIP74 is implemented, more BTS will come into committee-account, if there are tens or even hundreds of MBTS in committee-account, shall we still leave them there without using them?

On one hand many workers are voted down as the ecosystem is so weak, OTOH why we do not use the accumulated BTS to give some support to the ecosystem?

as I know recently BBF want to sell BTS to get 600K CNY to pay worker salary, suppose price=0.24CNY, need 2.5MBTS.

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?
 
just talk.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 04:04:33 am by bitcrab »

Offline binggo

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 04:18:37 am »
I also would like to talk the possibility of managing a debt position. even I am aware that almost everyone try to avoid it.

say, now with 5.77M BTS, it we  set margin call price = 0.1CNY, 460K bitCNY can be borrowed.

good to buy back BTS with these bitCNY?

as there are continuous bitCNY fee income to committee-account, the risk is very very low.

surely 5.77M BTS is not so much, either to use it will give little impact, but after BSIP74 is implemented, more BTS will come into committee-account, if there are tens or even hundreds of MBTS in committee-account, shall we still leave them there without using them?

On one hand many workers are voted down as the ecosystem is so weak, OTOH why we do not use the accumulated BTS to give some support to the ecosystem?

as I know recently BBF want to sell BTS to get 600K CNY to pay worker salary, suppose price=0.24CNY, need 2.5MBTS.

Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?
 
just talk.

BBF can give all the 25M BTS to committee-account,then the committee-account  borrow 2M CNY first for BBF salary,the fee can pay back the debt slowly.

When price go up high enough, committee-account just need to sell little bts to pay back the debt, it is very suitable for now and BBF didn't need to realease so much bts to the market.

1 month need about 600K bitcny.
9,10,11,12.


and notice BBF, if the worker get bitcny, every bitcny if they want to withdraw, please let them use bitcny to buy GDEX.BTC or OPEN.BTC.... forbid to use bitcny buy bts in DEX,then dump BTS in poloniex or other CEX.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 08:41:41 am by binggo »

Online sschiessl

Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 07:21:10 am »
Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

Offline clockwork

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2019, 08:17:39 am »
Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

would have to be a separate account for transparency reasons as unlocked collateral (as market fees pay back the loan) should be burned back to the chain

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2019, 08:20:05 am »
Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

would have to be a separate account for transparency reasons as unlocked collateral (as market fees pay back the loan) should be burned back to the chain

why burn?

it's OK to just operate in committee-account, the BTS is bought by committee-account and can be just kept in committee-account, and can be sold when BTS price is high enough.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 08:22:22 am by bitcrab »

Offline bitProfessor

Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2019, 08:57:34 am »
Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.
It looks good. Need to think about it.

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2019, 09:06:32 am »
Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

if the demand is still there, I feel it can be operated like this:

1.committee-account borrow 500K bitCNY with putting all the BTS balance into collateral.(5.77MBTS, margin call price=0.1384CNY)
2.committee-account claim 50K bitCNY fee.
2.committee-account trade 600K bitCNY with BBF account with the "barter proposal" to get BTS in market price.

let's do it?

Offline binggo

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2019, 09:31:25 am »
Why not let BBF pay the 2.5M BTS to committee-account, then the latter borrow 600K CNY with 8.27M BTS and margin call price=0.116 CNY(less than current GS price), and pay back to BBF?

I find this a good suggestion, joint effort and using community funds as collateral for community approved payments.

if the demand is still there, I feel it can be operated like this:

1.committee-account borrow 500K bitCNY with putting all the BTS balance into collateral.(5.77MBTS, margin call price=0.1384CNY)
2.committee-account claim 50K bitCNY fee.
2.committee-account trade 600K bitCNY with BBF account with the "barter proposal" to get BTS in market price.

let's do it?

https://workers.bitshares.foundation/201902-bitshares-core
31-36 weeks (07/28/2019-09/14/2019)bill :598.55461K bitcny

Now committee-account has 5,778,869.69868 bts and 118,617.8576 bitcny,unclaim market fee 50,069.3515 bitCNY.

OK, maybe can do it, and maybe BBF need give 2.6M bts to committee-account.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 09:32:56 am by binggo »

Offline Crypto Kong

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2019, 10:32:02 am »
This is, for once, starting to sound like an operation that makes sense. Bitcrabs suggested call price of 0.1 sounds reasonable, we should also agree a target price at which efforts should be made to lower the call price. For example, if price hits 0.15 all available funds are used to lower call price.

If we can avoid BBF selling BTS, we should.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 10:33:44 am by Crypto Kong »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2019, 10:46:11 am »
proposal 1.10.47576:
Change committee-account bitCNY debt by 500,000.0000 bitCNY and collateral by 5,762,081.78439 BTS
hope committee members can check.

Online abit

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Re: Committee Fund Operation Review
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2019, 01:58:56 pm »
If the committee to create debt positions, from past experience, we simply don't know what price is safe. When OMO was buying BTS at 1.05 CNY, people didn't think there would be a day BTS price could fall to 0.22 CNY. Personally I don't want to take the same risk again.

The current issue is:
* BBF wants to pay bitCNY to workers according to the terms defined in the workers, the biggest part is for the core dev worker.
* BBF now has only BTS.
* BBF doesn't want to sell BTS directly to the market for bitCNY now, because the continuous selling done before lead to criticisms, BBF wants to mitigate the criticisms.

The obvious solution for BBF is to pay BTS directly to the workers if the workers accept BTS. AFAIK all the core team members agree to be paid in BTS under certain conditions, E.G. got paid soon enough after issued an invoice to avoid taxing issues.

It seems BBF didn't accept this solution.

By the way, IMHO the predefined terms -- paying out bitCNY -- don't make much sense if the people getting bitCNY don't know how to efficiently use it, because bitCNY is actually not convenient enough for most of people working for the workers, because most of them don't live in China so bitCNY even fiat CNY is useless for them.

* The most common path for them to exchange bitCNY to local fiat for daily expense is to buy BTS with bitCNY in DEX then sell BTS for BTC in CEX's, then sell BTC for fiat; the step selling BTS for BTC would suppress BTS price and lead to margin calls in the DEX which led to criticisms. The question is, if people got bitCNY, they always sell for BTS, why not give them BTS in the first place?

* An option is to buy an IOU BTC (e.g. OPEN.BTC, GDEX.BTC or etc) with bitCNY in the DEX, but the market depths are low.

* Another option is to exchange bitCNY to BTC via blocktrades, but exchange rate provided by blocktrades is usually worse.

* Actually there is another good path: selling bitCNY for QC in zb.cn at almost 1:1, they buy BTC or whatever with QC there. This won't affect BTS price in CEX. But not many people know this.
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