How to Make Money on Initial Bitshares Chain!

[Brent.Allsop]

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

Yes it is possible that it will be $100 initially but I don't think it'll be $100 if Bitcoin is $1,000. Bitshares can be thought of as being 3 times more scarce than Bitcoin currently is which means that it should be 3 times more valuable than Bitcoin. So in other words Bitshares should be $1,800 a Bitshare assuming Bitcoin is at $600.

This is such a bad way to value a coin.  Bitcoin has a huge infrastructure that's in a much more advanced stage than any other coin.  Bitcoin is used on a much wider scale than any other coin.  This is where Bitcoin's value comes from and no other coin is even close.

When I make a DAC I'm going to make it so that the total supply is 0.5 of a share, maybe it will help some people get it

I'm all for it! Release many chains with different parameters.

I think this is a bad choice.  When people are faced with thousands of choices, they just get confused and run away from the entire survival of the fittest death match mess, as it tries to follow the current popular whims of the masses.  The diversity of coins out there now, from significantly deflating unobtainium to rapidly inflating dodge coins is one of the big reasons Bitcoin prices and the entire market are dropping.  Everyone can see that none of them are any better than any other, including the extreme ones.

You simply need adaptable DACS that can rapidly adapt in the most intelligent, rapid, and decisive ways.  Such will easily be able to clean up and out compete any dumb coin/DAC that has troubles changing, no matter how many of them there are.  And canonizer.com is all about building and measuring consensus in the most intelligent amplified wisdom of the crowd way, so your DAC can be managed, with that smart, leaderless process.

[jae208]

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

Yes it is possible that it will be $100 initially but I don't think it'll be $100 if Bitcoin is $1,000. Bitshares can be thought of as being 3 times more scarce than Bitcoin currently is which means that it should be 3 times more valuable than Bitcoin. So in other words Bitshares should be $1,800 a Bitshare assuming Bitcoin is at $600.

This is such a bad way to value a coin.  Bitcoin has a huge infrastructure that's in a much more advanced stage than any other coin.  Bitcoin is used on a much wider scale than any other coin.  This is where Bitcoin's value comes from and no other coin is even close.

When I make a DAC I'm going to make it so that the total supply is 0.5 of a share, maybe it will help some people get it

I'm all for it! Release many chains with different parameters.

[jae208]

I'm of the opinion that BTS should try to avoid publicity outside of crypto enthusiasts before we actually have time to really harden it

Yes I can understand that as I'm sure people outside the crypto space would probably be more frightened about this than anything. However, I think that more publicity will actually be more beneficial rather than harmful. Imagine if Bitshares becomes the way Bitcoin was in 2013? It seems to me that at first the value of Bitcoin would rise simply because of the media coverage which would cause the price to rise than crash but each time there was a greater number of supporters doing various things. Some where building more infrastructure others where simply investing and mining and others were contemplating what the true innovation of Bitcoin was. Was it just a currency or a platform for decentralized trustless systems?

[jae208]

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

Yes it is possible that it will be $100 initially but I don't think it'll be $100 if Bitcoin is $1,000. Bitshares can be thought of as being 3 times more scarce than Bitcoin currently is which means that it should be 3 times more valuable than Bitcoin. So in other words Bitshares should be $1,800 a Bitshare assuming Bitcoin is at $600.

This is such a bad way to value a coin.  Bitcoin has a huge infrastructure that's in a much more advanced stage than any other coin.  Bitcoin is used on a much wider scale than any other coin.  This is where Bitcoin's value comes from and no other coin is even close.

That is correct but Bitshares is not just another useless alt coin. Bitshares is a profound step forward in terms of decentralization. Bitcoin is already Napster and Bitshares is the next step.

[toast]

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

Yes it is possible that it will be $100 initially but I don't think it'll be $100 if Bitcoin is $1,000. Bitshares can be thought of as being 3 times more scarce than Bitcoin currently is which means that it should be 3 times more valuable than Bitcoin. So in other words Bitshares should be $1,800 a Bitshare assuming Bitcoin is at $600.

This is such a bad way to value a coin.  Bitcoin has a huge infrastructure that's in a much more advanced stage than any other coin.  Bitcoin is used on a much wider scale than any other coin.  This is where Bitcoin's value comes from and no other coin is even close.

When I make a DAC I'm going to make it so that the total supply is 0.5 of a share, maybe it will help some people get it

[JakeThePanda]

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

Yes it is possible that it will be $100 initially but I don't think it'll be $100 if Bitcoin is $1,000. Bitshares can be thought of as being 3 times more scarce than Bitcoin currently is which means that it should be 3 times more valuable than Bitcoin. So in other words Bitshares should be $1,800 a Bitshare assuming Bitcoin is at $600.

This is such a bad way to value a coin.  Bitcoin has a huge infrastructure that's in a much more advanced stage than any other coin.  Bitcoin is used on a much wider scale than any other coin.  This is where Bitcoin's value comes from and no other coin is even close.

[toast]

I'm of the opinion that BTS should try to avoid publicity outside of crypto enthusiasts before we actually have time to really harden it

[jae208]

If you don't want people to sell their Bitshares then how will they get the necessary ROI?

A lot of money and time goes into acquiring Bitshares. I've heard stories of people spending $20,000 on mining in the cloud just to get PTS so they could get Bitshares and that was back when it could be mined. Now you have Angelshares which cannot be mined at all so when these people get Bitshares how are they going to get back the Bitcoin donations they put into it?

Once the initial ROI is made I don't see any reasonable person selling when they know it's worth at least $1000 a share. But before it can reach $1000 a share you first have to have ATMs and other businesses set up to bring XBT and BTS to the mainstream. The Bitshares ATM will be critical. A fiat to BTS exchange will also be critical.

Unlike Mastercoin and Counterparty, Bitshares cannot rely on the Bitcoin establishment for support. The Bitshares community is going to have to independently build it's own exchanges, its own ATMs, it's own paper wallet generators, and more. PiperWallet and Trezor will have to be modified to support Bitshares.

It is only when Bitshares can be securely stored, easily purchased, and made simple to understand for the masses will it reach $1000 a share. If people cannot figure out how to buy Bitshares or BitUSD, if you cannot get commercial businesses to take BitUSD seriously, and if you don't make it secure and simple, you don't deserve $1000 a share. But if you can do that then it's absolutely worth that.

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

It's not enough to just launch DACs and theoretical experiments. If you want to see these share prices it's time to discuss business plans, market caps, and figure out what is preventing mass adoption because right now no one has heard of Bitshares.

They will still get their return on investment. I'm just saying that people should wait a bit and not sell immediately. If you wait a bit and you believe and are only willing to sell them at $1,000 a share then the network effect takes over and each Bitshare will be worth $1,000. Then what will happen is that as soon as Bitshares are up on coinmarketcap.com people will be intrigued by how large of a market cap this new "alt coin" will have and they will buy more up because they don't want to miss an opportunity to make money. As a result, the market cap goes higher which generates FREE publicity from mainstream media sources which will lead to new community members, new entrepreneurs, new investors, and new interested merchants in Bitshares and a greater exponential network effect.

I am thinking in exponential terms here. Technology tends to move exponentially. Sure, it took Bitcoin 5 years before it got to the point it is today. The next hot distributed financial instrument like Bitshares won't take quite as long. In fact I think that it is possible that by the end of this year Bitshares will surpass Bitcoin simply because the value proposition is a lot better than Bitcoin and Bitshares offers more services that Bitcoin can not. I think that everything Bitcoin has Bitshares will have in a fraction of the time like ATM's, exchanges, hardware wallets etc. 

People tend to think in linear terms as this is how evolution programmed our brains.

Example
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9..... 30
You get to 30 at step 30

Technology is exponential and so is the network effect

Example
1,2,4,8,16,32,64..... 1 BILLION
You get to 1 billion at step 30

Bitshares will be exponential because of its exponential network effect.

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

Yes it is possible that it will be $100 initially but I don't think it'll be $100 if Bitcoin is $1,000. Bitshares can be thought of as being 3 times more scarce than Bitcoin currently is which means that it should be 3 times more valuable than Bitcoin. So in other words Bitshares should be $1,800 a Bitshare assuming Bitcoin is at $600.

The value proposition is already there as Bitshares are a product/service that is more efficient than traditional banking and has a lot more to offer than Bitcoin.

[jae208]

If BTSX is going to hit $1000, it'll get there whether you say "don't sell!" or not. So it sounds to me like your best bet is to just sit tight and when the price slumps after launch, buy everything you can get your hands on.

If you believe in a huge upside, you should be happy with low initial prices because they will give you a chance to increase your profit margin

Yes I know that if the market believes it is worth $1,000 a share than it will be $1,000 a share and I believe it will reach that point within 18 months at the latest. I'm just trying to shorten the time frame from 18 months down to 1-6 months.

Oh believe me I will be buying them up even if they are worth $1,000. The only limiting factor would be not having money. lol I'm 100% in this.

[jae208]

The same argument is made with people selling Bitcoin. Why did that guy buy a pizza for 10,000 Bitcoins? Because he was hungry.

He bought the pizzas in order to kickstart a market for bitcoins - not because he was hungry. It was a conscious act of market development.

Of course that is what he will say now.
But he could have bought anything other than Pizza.

Yeah I'm sure he is saying that now because he probably regrets giving away millions of dollars for two pizzas.

[jae208]

There are quite a lot of people who have acquired BTSX for as low as 0.0025 BTC. There will be sell-offs, at least to recover the initial BTC invested.

$1k is a long, long way. You will be getting sub $5 BTSXT at the start. Remember, 4 million BTSXT will be in the market from the start.

Well I'm not saying that I don't want you to recover your initial BTC invested. I'm just saying that you should perhaps delay your gratification a little bit longer. So instead of selling at $15 (I believe Bitshares will open up at minimum for $15) I just want you to wait to sell until it reaches $1,000. That way your return on investment is even LARGER. Plus, the value of Bitshares, or anything for that matter, is dependent upon what people are willing to sell and buy something for. So when you take into consideration what BTSXT will ultimately be and take into account the fact that BTSXT will give you future improved versions of Bitshares and 3rd party Bitshares AND you also factor in what industry this product/service is set to disrupt than $1,000 a Bitshare is a bargain.

I know that there will only be 4 million BTSXT at the start. One way to think about it is that there are currently about 13 million Bitcoins in circulation and there will only be 4 million BTSXT right. Therefore, Bitshares should in theory be 3 times more valuable than Bitcoin currently is because BTSXT is roughly 3 times more scarce than Bitcoin. 13 million divided by 4 million.

Now, let's not forget that Bitcoin doesn't really do anything too great at the moment other than send money from point A to point B. In other words, Bitcoin is pretty limited in comparison to what Bitshares can do that in itself justifies $1,000 a Bitshare lets not forget about the compound interest... Own BTSXT and you'll own future improved versions of BTSXT including versions that offer interest

[yellowecho]

You make money buy shorting bitUSD and bitBTC

Haha, if everybody is shorting BitUSD and BitBTC, then you make money by buying up all that cheap BitUSD and BitBTC 

 

[luckybit]

The same argument is made with people selling Bitcoin. Why did that guy buy a pizza for 10,000 Bitcoins? Because he was hungry.

He bought the pizzas in order to kickstart a market for bitcoins - not because he was hungry. It was a conscious act of market development.

Of course that is what he will say now.
But he could have bought anything other than Pizza.

[onceuponatime]

The same argument is made with people selling Bitcoin. Why did that guy buy a pizza for 10,000 Bitcoins? Because he was hungry.

He bought the pizzas in order to kickstart a market for bitcoins - not because he was hungry. It was a conscious act of market development.

[biophil]

You make money buy shorting bitUSD and bitBTC

Haha, if everybody is shorting BitUSD and BitBTC, then you make money by buying up all that cheap BitUSD and BitBTC 

[santaclause102]

You make money buy shorting bitUSD and bitBTC

[clout]

*by

[clout]

You make money buy shorting bitUSD and bitBTC

[luckybit]

If someone is tempted to sell their shares at the beginning, they should at least buy BitUSD instead of selling the shares. This (theoretically) will let you lock in your profits commission free, without totally exiting the Bitshares ecosystem. The only question is how much BitUSD will actually track the inverse price of BTS on the centralized exchanges. Its going to be fascinating to watch.

That is a good point and I agree that they should at least keep it in the system by buying BitUSD. I would speculate that at minimum 1 Bitshare would be worth about 15 BitUSD as BitUSD should closely match the dollar and 1 Bitshares-PTS is roughly $15.
I think that a single Bitshare being worth $1,000 would be a bargain considering that Bitshares is a product/service that is more efficient and set to disrupt a multi-trillion dollar industry perhaps even larger.
The reason I posted the OP was so that those of us who have a vested interest in the success of Bitshares realize that we will get a pretty good ROI as soon as Bitshares is launched and that just because you made a good ROI doesn't mean that you should dump because they will be worth a heck of a lot more later on.

Theoretically if you could make BitUSD be accepted by the Bitcoin ATMs in such a way that we could actually cash out our BitUSD then no one would have to ever sell a Bitshare for anything other than BitUSD.

But since Bitshares would still be sold, it would still influence the price. If you can earn BitUSD somehow in the Bitshares system in a way where the dividend or the value is enough that you could cash out BitUSD and not sell Bitshares let me know. I'm not sure how you could avoid selling Bitshares if you need cash.

The same argument is made with people selling Bitcoin. Why did that guy buy a pizza for 10,000 Bitcoins? Because he was hungry.

[luckybit]

If you don't want people to sell their Bitshares then how will they get the necessary ROI?

A lot of money and time goes into acquiring Bitshares. I've heard stories of people spending $20,000 on mining in the cloud just to get PTS so they could get Bitshares and that was back when it could be mined. Now you have Angelshares which cannot be mined at all so when these people get Bitshares how are they going to get back the Bitcoin donations they put into it?

Once the initial ROI is made I don't see any reasonable person selling when they know it's worth at least $1000 a share. But before it can reach $1000 a share you first have to have ATMs and other businesses set up to bring XBT and BTS to the mainstream. The Bitshares ATM will be critical. A fiat to BTS exchange will also be critical.

Unlike Mastercoin and Counterparty, Bitshares cannot rely on the Bitcoin establishment for support. The Bitshares community is going to have to independently build it's own exchanges, its own ATMs, it's own paper wallet generators, and more. PiperWallet and Trezor will have to be modified to support Bitshares.

It is only when Bitshares can be securely stored, easily purchased, and made simple to understand for the masses will it reach $1000 a share. If people cannot figure out how to buy Bitshares or BitUSD, if you cannot get commercial businesses to take BitUSD seriously, and if you don't make it secure and simple, you don't deserve $1000 a share. But if you can do that then it's absolutely worth that.

Initially it will probably be $100 a share assuming Bitcoin is $1000. If Bitcoin goes up because most people can only buy Bitshares through Bitcoin it can reach $1000 a share if Bitcoin is in one of it's bubbles but if you want Bitshares to reach $1000 a share independently and stay there then you need to build value around the Bitshares network.

It's not enough to just launch DACs and theoretical experiments. If you want to see these share prices it's time to discuss business plans, market caps, and figure out what is preventing mass adoption because right now no one has heard of Bitshares.

[biophil]

If BTSX is going to hit $1000, it'll get there whether you say "don't sell!" or not. So it sounds to me like your best bet is to just sit tight and when the price slumps after launch, buy everything you can get your hands on.

If you believe in a huge upside, you should be happy with low initial prices because they will give you a chance to increase your profit margin

[sumantso]

There are quite a lot of people who have acquired BTSX for as low as 0.0025 BTC. There will be sell-offs, at least to recover the initial BTC invested.

$1k is a long, long way. You will be getting sub $5 BTSXT at the start. Remember, 4 million BTSXT will be in the market from the start.

[jae208]

If someone is tempted to sell their shares at the beginning, they should at least buy BitUSD instead of selling the shares. This (theoretically) will let you lock in your profits commission free, without totally exiting the Bitshares ecosystem. The only question is how much BitUSD will actually track the inverse price of BTS on the centralized exchanges. Its going to be fascinating to watch.

That is a good point and I agree that they should at least keep it in the system by buying BitUSD. I would speculate that at minimum 1 Bitshare would be worth about 15 BitUSD as BitUSD should closely match the dollar and 1 Bitshares-PTS is roughly $15.
I think that a single Bitshare being worth $1,000 would be a bargain considering that Bitshares is a product/service that is more efficient and set to disrupt a multi-trillion dollar industry perhaps even larger.
The reason I posted the OP was so that those of us who have a vested interest in the success of Bitshares realize that we will get a pretty good ROI as soon as Bitshares is launched and that just because you made a good ROI doesn't mean that you should dump because they will be worth a heck of a lot more later on.

[speedy]

If someone is tempted to sell their shares at the beginning, they should at least buy BitUSD instead of selling the shares. This (theoretically) will let you lock in your profits commission free, without totally exiting the Bitshares ecosystem. The only question is how much BitUSD will actually track the inverse price of BTS on the centralized exchanges. Its going to be fascinating to watch.

[jae208]

I know that as soon as people get hold of there first Bitshares they will probably
be overwhelmed at the nice profit they have made and MAY be tempted to dump.

IF YOU SELL YOUR BITSHARES AT LESS THAN $1,000 YOU WILL DRIVE THE PRICE DOWN EXPONENTIALLY. THINK ABOUT THIS, IF YOU STAND YOUR GROUND AND SELL BITSHARES ONLY ABOVE $1,000 NOT ONLY WILL WE ALL WIN BUT THE HUGE MARKET CAP WILL GENERATE MORE PUBLICITY AND GAIN MORE EXPOSURE AT AN EXPONENTIAL RATE THUS INCREASING YOUR PROFITS FURTHER AND PERHAPS ADDING NEW MEMBERS TO THE COMMUNITY.

On the other hand, if you sell your Bitshares at say $30 you will still make a nice profit simply for flipping Bitshares but I personally would prefer owning Bitshares that are being sold for $1,000 than selling for $30. Think long term! Don't give in to instant gratification! If you don't give in to instant gratification we ALL win BIG! Remember if you plan on selling $1,000 is the magic number and in doing so your ROI will be a huge exponential number.

Hope this works lol
(one can dream right?)