Author Topic: Don't support BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211  (Read 914 times)

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Offline binggo

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Don't support BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211
« on: December 18, 2019, 01:52:06 am »
BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/156

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29722.msg336589#msg336589

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I don't support BSIP62 and suggest the bts holder don't vote it.

1. BSIP62 is very dangerous for the market;it will become a very dangerous short tool for the big debtor holder, this will harm the market like MSSR=110 and will threat the other debtor holder very easily.

The market depth will be crushed first by the BSIP62, will make the other margin call can't be digested, then will appear ripple effect in the market, crush the depth and liquidity more quickly than before, and will lead the feed price down quickly too.

2. BSIP74 will become very useless; someone will avoid BSIP74 with BSIP62.

BSIP74 is a very important BSIP for the bitassets, with BSIP74, we can set the (MSSR-MCFR) very close to 1, this will not crush the market like before, if add the function of fee share, will encourage the buyer to eat the margin call.

If we set MSSR=1.1, MCFR=0.1, what will be happened with BSIP62?

3. BSIP77 will become very useless too, someone will avoid BSIP74 with BSIP62.

4. If have BSIP62, why do we need MCR?MCR will become useless too, if the debtor holder can't handlel his debtor rationality before margin called, how he can control his debit rationality below MCR?

The bitasset is not a leveraged market.

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If want BSIP62 to become really useful? It must charge the MCFR fees+Liquidity penalty %;
If someone want to use BSIP62, the system will charge the MCFR fees ++Liquidity penalty % from the user.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 04:27:04 pm by binggo »

Offline chigbolu

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Re: Don't support BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2019, 06:30:44 am »
I think BSIP 62 does not affect any of the BSIPs you have mentioned, if a debtor can no longer maintain his MCR he should be given this option as a last resort in order to cut losses, whatever fees to be charged doesn't matter at that point, BSIP62 will enable large debtors to close their bad positions on time before automatic margin call, it will also reduce the accumulation of bad debtors. Bad debtors are victims of BTS fall in price, they do not have any stop gap measures to reduce this risk and are easily exposed to shorting attack and harsh bear market conditions which we are facing now.... This BSIP is a form of get out jail card for them.

Offline binggo

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Re: Don't support BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2019, 08:03:31 am »
I think BSIP 62 does not affect any of the BSIPs you have mentioned, if a debtor can no longer maintain his MCR he should be given this option as a last resort in order to cut losses, whatever fees to be charged doesn't matter at that point, BSIP62 will enable large debtors to close their bad positions on time before automatic margin call, it will also reduce the accumulation of bad debtors. Bad debtors are victims of BTS fall in price, they do not have any stop gap measures to reduce this risk and are easily exposed to shorting attack and harsh bear market conditions which we are facing now.... This BSIP is a form of get out jail card for them.

You still didn't understand it, sorry about that, this is a knife can cut anyone.

I have gave the solution to this BSIP, this BSIP must charge fees, the fee is very important and necessary, BSIP62 consume the liquidity and depth of the market, others debtor will suffer the consequence.

I don't care the large or small debtors, if he can't handle his debtor and want to use BSIP62,  he must pay for it, this is very necessary.

If his CR>ICR, he can do what he wants to do by hand,but he want use BSIP62, pay the fee.

I don't wish the bitasset was attacked by BSIP62 with no fees (just like MSSR=110).

We must consider the whole design of bitasset, not part of it. 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 03:37:18 pm by binggo »

Offline bench

Re: Don't support BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 12:19:51 am »
When he/she closes the position with a high discount the premium rises, but the price feed is not dependent on the bitAsset market.

Closing margin position needs a market fee.
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Offline abit

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Re: Don't support BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 02:02:31 am »
When he/she closes the position with a high discount the premium rises, but the price feed is not dependent on the bitAsset market.

Closing margin position needs a market fee.
IMO the bsip implies there would be a market fee.
But it seems @bingo wants a margin call fee which would be much higher.
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Offline binggo

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Re: Don't support BSIP62: Close Margin Position #211
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 03:08:35 am »
When he/she closes the position with a high discount the premium rises, but the price feed is not dependent on the bitAsset market.

Closing margin position needs a market fee.
IMO the bsip implies there would be a market fee.
But it seems @bingo wants a margin call fee which would be much higher.

Yes, i think it need a margin call fee and share part fees adapt with BSIP74.

Quote
This BSIP is very different with BSIP74, in some case, they are against, i think BSIP62 not only need MCFR fees, but also need some Liquidity penalty fee, as BSIP62 consume the depth and liquidity of BSIP74 advance.

If no margin call in the market, nobody want to use it, if somebody want to use it, that's mean there will have a quick market volatility, he want to close his position in the market quickly, that's mean he will consume the depth and liquidity of the market advance, other margin call will not have enough liquidity and depth, if he can't close his position all, he will make a lower price than margin call price make sure the market can consume it all, that's very dangerous.

BSIP74 should or will have a function of share fees, as this, the Liquidity penalty fee of BSIP62 must adapt with the proportion of share fees of BSIP74.

BSIP62 fees will be: MCFR*quantity*(1+share proportion),

e.g.

if BSIP74: MSSR=1.10, MCFR=0.10, share proportion=20%,

so BSIP62 fees will be: MCFR*quantity*(1+0.2)

BOB in BSIP74, will sell 100 bts out, and pay 10 bts fees, share 2 bts to the buyer, system got 8 bts.

BOS in BSIP60, will sell 100 bts out, and pay 12 bts fees, system will get 12 bts.