Author Topic: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed  (Read 2510 times)

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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: [Poll] Do you support what abit changed to voting system?
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2020, 03:22:22 pm »
In fact in most condition whether rule A or rule B is not a big deal to me.
What I really concern is the business based on core which make BTS more valuable like gdex\rudex\CNC\magicwallet...
I expected a stable core since years ago, but seems it's still not coming today.

What abit had done is totally not acceptable in my opinion.
But it's already happen. I can accept the changes even some details is not reasonable to me.
The important thing is how to ensure our developer don't do it again.

I don't support fork, it's a disaster to all business based on BTS, what will happen to bitCNY/GDEX.BTC/CNC.. ?
Anybody  will have faith to build business on BTS in the future?
I wish you can resolve disputes, somebody can give a concession,  price will rise, BTS can have a good future.
Please use your votes to stop this chaos in community, the future of BTS is really in your hands.

1\Vote back those witness that didn't update cnvote patch to avoid fork.

2\ Discuss about the new rules among the whole community, and vote for the new rules one by one

3\ Update a new version after the whole community reach consensus(careful code check to avoid abit things again).
BTS committee member:jademont

Offline blockchained

Re: [Poll] Do you support what abit changed to voting system?
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2020, 04:10:37 pm »
Quote
If you expect something to happen, you'd better work towards it.

Act like a man.

It does not act like a man abit, it's act like a criminal that put trojan in the release, the devs like you must be forever banned from the reserve pool or any work for the community
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 04:37:14 pm by blockchained »

Offline blockchained

Re: [Poll] Do you support what abit changed to voting system?
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2020, 04:24:22 pm »
In fact in most condition whether rule A or rule B is not a big deal to me.
What I really concern is the business based on core which make BTS more valuable like gdex\rudex\CNC\magicwallet...
I expected a stable core since years ago, but seems it's still not coming today.

What abit had done is totally not acceptable in my opinion.
But it's already happen. I can accept the changes even some details is not reasonable to me.
The important thing is how to ensure our developer don't do it again.

I don't support fork, it's a disaster to all business based on BTS, what will happen to bitCNY/GDEX.BTC/CNC.. ?
Anybody  will have faith to build business on BTS in the future?
I wish you can resolve disputes, somebody can give a concession,  price will rise, BTS can have a good future.
Please use your votes to stop this chaos in community, the future of BTS is really in your hands.

1\Vote back those witness that didn't update cnvote patch to avoid fork.

2\ Discuss about the new rules among the whole community, and vote for the new rules one by one

3\ Update a new version after the whole community reach consensus(careful code check to avoid abit things again).

it will be no fork because if abit  have money to sustain a fork, he didn't put trojan in the first place, we will see the same faces fighting around the reserve pool after 20th

Offline EuropaSH

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Re: [Poll] Do you support what abit changed to voting system?
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2020, 08:02:56 pm »
In fact in most condition whether rule A or rule B is not a big deal to me.
What I really concern is the business based on core which make BTS more valuable like gdex\rudex\CNC\magicwallet...
I expected a stable core since years ago, but seems it's still not coming today.

What abit had done is totally not acceptable in my opinion.
But it's already happen. I can accept the changes even some details is not reasonable to me.
The important thing is how to ensure our developer don't do it again.

I don't support fork, it's a disaster to all business based on BTS, what will happen to bitCNY/GDEX.BTC/CNC.. ?
Anybody  will have faith to build business on BTS in the future?
I wish you can resolve disputes, somebody can give a concession,  price will rise, BTS can have a good future.

Hello! And nice to meet you!
Here we have described what we are doing for the Bitshares infrastructure https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=32472.0
and here you can find all the news about our exchange https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26813.105

You are right, these events are unacceptable for business.

Who will come to Bitshares when the nodes have to install the patch from the unofficial github. For example, we don't know what will happen on August 20, Will the nodes stop or not. How many days to close the exchange for technical work, etc.

..The main developer is making changes that no one supposedly knew about. !!! Although the code was posted before and everyone could see and read it.
Why didn't you read the code?
Changes in the official release - Good for the blockchain. 1 vote-1 choice. Solving the issue with dead accounts and much more. Lots of tests before starting the update, etc.

Has the New Patch been multilevel tested?
We ask questions and do not receive answers.

That there was no wide coverage of the news with the 4.0 update. is a communication problem with the marketing news department. Bitshares needs such a department!

The fact that the patch needs to be installed from an unofficial repository is a big problem. It looks like a takeover of the network.

How can a business make the most of the tool without knowing what will happen to the future?

I do not know how long Abit has been on Bitshares. Our exchange for Bitshares has been operating for over 2 years. And we have no reason to doubt the actions or technical knowledge of the Abit. He is always attentive to new users and always welcoming. Always answers questions and is open to discussion. He put things in order in the telegrams, for which many thanks to him. Because many people, entering the telegram Bitshares chat, left. Because they faced constant insults, etc. including from Dima. You probably know this yourself.
XBTS DEX EXCHANGE FOR TRADERS AND GAMERS https://xbts.io

Offline binggo

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Re: [Poll] Do you support what abit changed to voting system?
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2020, 09:53:21 pm »
.

it will be no fork because if abit  have money to sustain a fork, he didn't put trojan in the first place, we will see the same faces fighting around the reserve pool after 20th

After 20th, there will be no one go to fight around the reserve pool in cn-vote chain, as the reserve pool will be burned.
And they will care about more in CNVOTE than BTS, i don't want to criticize cn-vote, but you didn't know about them.

Offline bitcrab

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Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2020, 12:38:36 am »


now only few voters have voted, and all the 4 features get more support than against voting powers.

hope every voters, especially big proxies to vote to show your opinion.

do not wait after 20th, no one is sure what will happen in 20th.

and either fork or not, I believe the current chain need a Plan C.

Offline binggo

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Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2020, 01:03:19 am »


now only few voters have voted, and all the 4 features get more support than against voting powers.

hope every voters, especially big proxies to vote to show your opinion.

do not wait after 20th, no one is sure what will happen in 20th.

and either fork or not, I believe the current chain need a Plan C.


These vote can't say anything:

This is the vote power now, let the data talk:

beos:          70.0M
baozi:         53.3M
B-DEX:        47.5M
CN-VOTE:    237.0M

70+53.3+47.5=171-237=-66

171+237=408

The vote power of CN-VOTE is 237.0M, only have 30M BTS is not leveraged collateral.

Fair vote?

大螃蟹上午回了又删了,我本想接着那个思路回一下,既然删了就算了,但是我们可以再举一个简单的例子来解释或者什么一下: 为什么抵押票权与挂单票权必须要割掉。

比如我是威且科技的一个小股东,可以在公司抵押我的股权从公司借出资金,且还享有表决权,然后再从股市或者其它小股东手里收购公司股票,再抵押给公司借出资金,大螃蟹你做为这个公司老板是不是要疯?等到我的杠杆表决权可以独断的时候,直接让公司不可以爆我的仓位,那么大老板心里是不是要MMP? 如果所有股东都这样搞表决权的话,那公司还需要发展吗?其它不愿意这样参与的股东是不是打心底里有分家的想法?

再退一步讲,我不在本公司抵押而是在外部做抵押,然后回购公司股票做杠杆,只要表决权不灭失,我想大螃蟹你作为这个公司的老板心里也要无限MMP吧?!

至于为什么挂单票权也要割掉,都挂着单子要卖了,很明显是前脚投票后脚跑路的节奏,这对于一个DAO治理有何意义?!

至于猴子,将来你是想跟着cn-vote这些人不断把杠杆加上去去抗衡抵押票权呢,还是等着他们抵押票权高到可以独断的时候,一个激动直接锁到10块,抵押筹码不丢还能干你?

至于其它,我实在是搞不清楚,一个1.7亿实打实持有bts的票仓有何怕的?...所有的东西都站不住脚...这么多独立见证人难道还不如一个组织控制的贿选见证人体系, 现在就可以这样横着把独立见证人体系干掉,将来岂不是要渡劫上天?!



再者,真的是多说无益,既然关键矛盾不可调和,赶紧×了算完,这种票权结构之下,谈个毛的共识。


« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 04:47:47 am by binggo »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2020, 06:23:56 am »


now only few voters have voted, and all the 4 features get more support than against voting powers.

hope every voters, especially big proxies to vote to show your opinion.

do not wait after 20th, no one is sure what will happen in 20th.

and either fork or not, I believe the current chain need a Plan C.


These vote can't say anything:

This is the vote power now, let the data talk:

beos:          70.0M
baozi:         53.3M
B-DEX:        47.5M
CN-VOTE:    237.0M

70+53.3+47.5=171-237=-66

171+237=408

The vote power of CN-VOTE is 237.0M, only have 30M BTS is not leveraged collateral.

Fair vote?

大螃蟹上午回了又删了,我本想接着那个思路回一下,既然删了就算了,但是我们可以再举一个简单的例子来解释或者什么一下: 为什么抵押票权与挂单票权必须要割掉。

比如我是威且科技的一个小股东,可以在公司抵押我的股权从公司借出资金,且还享有表决权,然后再从股市或者其它小股东手里收购公司股票,再抵押给公司借出资金,大螃蟹你做为这个公司老板是不是要疯?等到我的杠杆表决权可以独断的时候,直接让公司不可以爆我的仓位,那么大老板心里是不是要MMP? 如果所有股东都这样搞表决权的话,那公司还需要发展吗?其它不愿意这样参与的股东是不是打心底里有分家的想法?

再退一步讲,我不在本公司抵押而是在外部做抵押,然后回购公司股票做杠杆,只要表决权不灭失,我想大螃蟹你作为这个公司的老板心里也要无限MMP吧?!

至于为什么挂单票权也要割掉,都挂着单子要卖了,很明显是前脚投票后脚跑路的节奏,这对于一个DAO治理有何意义?!

至于猴子,将来你是想跟着cn-vote这些人不断把杠杆加上去去抗衡抵押票权呢,还是等着他们抵押票权高到可以独断的时候,一个激动直接锁到10块,抵押筹码不丢还能干你?

至于其它,我实在是搞不清楚,一个1.7亿实打实持有bts的票仓有何怕的?...所有的东西都站不住脚...这么多独立见证人难道还不如一个组织控制的贿选见证人体系, 现在就可以这样横着把独立见证人体系干掉,将来岂不是要渡劫上天?!


再者,真的是多说无益,既然关键矛盾不可调和,赶紧×了算完,这种票权结构之下,谈个毛的共识。

作为我个人来说,现在的投票规则并非不可接受,但我并不认为是非常合理的。

如果一个公司上市了,有投资者借钱买股票获得投票权,我想谁都得认,如果想让公司少受投资人影响,不上市就行了呗,学学任老板。

事实上,我觉得锁仓票权+抵押票权也许可以刚好互相平衡,如果说过去曾经有抵押票权罔顾整体利益,那么如果完全取消了抵押票权,谁来代表抵押者的权益?以后抵押者是不是可以被尽情欺负了?

对了,你给出的那几个大户票权应该不准确,先搞准确了。

Offline binggo

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Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2020, 07:39:50 am »
Quote
作为我个人来说,现在的投票规则并非不可接受,但我并不认为是非常合理的。

如果一个公司上市了,有投资者借钱买股票获得投票权,我想谁都得认,如果想让公司少受投资人影响,不上市就行了呗,学学任老板。

事实上,我觉得锁仓票权+抵押票权也许可以刚好互相平衡,如果说过去曾经有抵押票权罔顾整体利益,那么如果完全取消了抵押票权,谁来代表抵押者的权益?以后抵押者是不是可以被尽情欺负了?

对了,你给出的那几个大户票权应该不准确,先搞准确了。

1. 票权规则不会有非常合理的,锁仓倍数以后可以慢慢谈,但是抵押票权必须割掉;

abit留这么长的一个缓冲期,让渡给了cn-vote这么大的一个票权占比,无论是解锁喂价还是提高强清补偿还是BSIP74与BSIP77还是调整喂价到一个正常的灵敏度,都可以比较容易的通过投票实现,这些东西与措施对挽救一下cn-vote声誉并弥补国内外社区的裂痕不好吗?!cn-vote在干什么?个个屁股决定脑袋的在准备夺权控制见证人体系,这是脑子要多缺才会这么干?!见证人体系是什么意味着什么,他们自己感情到现在还不清楚。
要换成我,立马就把抵押票权割了,让他们跳的机会都没有,你给了他们机会,他们就跳大神给你看。

2. 质押股权的资金用途是被严格限制的,不是认不认的问题,必抓的问题,而且股权的财产价值与表决权价值是不可能一分为二的,贾跃亭怎么把乐视掏空的,大家应该都门清;

3. 锁仓与抵押之间不存在平等与平衡,锁仓者把自己的流动性与时间成本锁住了,而抵押原地就可以杠出2.3倍的杠杆票权,出了事情还能跑的飞快,价格上涨的时候还能将票权指数型放大迅速超过锁仓票权,锁了喂价还能保证筹码不丢,票权不降,锁仓的还能给抵押的减少流动性,这么多的好处都让抵押占了,那还有哪个二货去锁仓?两年下来,高杠杆的赚了个盘满砵满,还能捞底,锁仓的等解锁的时候,价格不仅没涨还跌了?!谁还锁?

4. BTS持有人的利益其实就是抵押者的利益,一个无限滚仓拖累价格抵押市场符合bts持有人的利益吗?一个流动性归零的抵押市场符合bts持有人的利益吗?这么一个大业务蛋糕别人做的蒸蒸日上,而bts放着不争取做好那还要去做什么业务?
而且即使抵押票权被割掉,抵押者也是占了很大便宜,只要在合理的抵押率,不是上满杠杆,瞬间就可以调仓出大量的自由票权。

抵押者的利益保障更多的在于设计者的设计能力。
像makerdao双币制其实可能更好一些,对于bts而言早就木已成舟,没有太大意义。

价格的下跌其实很大程度上不是抵押市场造成的,只是畸形的机制放大了下跌的效果。
cn-vote屁股决定脑袋,我不认为他们能搞好抵押市场,至于这些真正的bts持有者,我也持怀疑态度,但是两者权其轻,我感觉还是交给bts持有者至少不会屁股决定脑袋的好。

5. 票权数据应该大差不差,你感觉beos是1.7亿,其实就7千万,代理票仓应该很多一次也没投过票,至少btsai上的数据是这样,除非bts投票数据统计方式有问题……

易,穷则变,变则通,通则久。

BTS升级4.0之前大家其实基本希望与热情磨灭的差不多了,如果4.0没有大的改变(其实本来就没有什么实质性的变化,很多还需要决策者合理的实施与前提条件),大家基本也就撤了,票权的结构性改变让大家又燃起了那么一丝丝热情与希望,可能整体的抵押市场会恢复正常,可能核心开发群体会充实起来,可能会有一些更贴合市场的开发动作。

----


另外,还想要用投票来决定: 抵押票权该不该保留,就跟投票决定吃人合法不合法一样可笑!!!


真是服了你们了,到现在还要如此幼稚?!









« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 01:43:35 pm by binggo »

Offline xixi002020

Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2020, 08:19:02 am »
都别扯了,回到现实中来。合不合理后面再改,就按照现在的来, 现目前先把争议平息了,  工会目前的2.4亿票 也不一定干不过,呼吁扯工会票或联系交易所啊!  工会主要目的是进行监督 而不是几个B在哪瞎搞。
abit不管出于何目的,或多或少都应该给予处罚。
再接着吵 牛市就过了! BTS该归零了

见证人也应该一票一投,不然避免不了被人控制. 特别是被作恶或瞎搞的控制!!!!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 08:29:39 am by xixi002020 »

Offline binggo

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Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2020, 08:26:19 am »
都别扯了,回到现实中来。合不合理后面再改,就按照现在的来, 现目前先把争议平息了,  工会目前的2.4亿票 也不一定干不过,呼吁扯工会票或联系交易所啊!  工会主要目的是进行监督 而不是几个B在哪瞎搞。
abit不管出于何目的,或多或少都应该给予处罚。

上一次交易所在steemit不也出力了嘛,进一步加速❌的节奏,而且人都是贪小利的,有几个会顾大局,你去拆利益集团的桥,割他们的肉,怎么可能!现在顾大局的基本被定性为黑粉。

至于见证人被大票仓控制,习惯就好了,DPOS特色...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 08:44:30 am by binggo »

Offline bitcrab

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Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2020, 01:54:59 am »
建议公会支持解锁喂价。
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 05:34:25 am by bitcrab »

Offline gghi

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Re: [Poll] Plan C: release new version with the unplanned features processed
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2020, 01:20:55 pm »
    8月20日过了,躲过一劫!补丁没有经过代码开源就强行上去,简直就是胡闹!“DPOS"所谓的投票治理模式,明显的票权重复有问题。4.0革命的没有错误,去毒瘤就得用大刀。
 票权重复使用,意味着权力集中,一票一投才更加合理。如果说4.0不完善的地方,那就是没有立即执行新的规则,而是给了旧势力折腾的时间。ABIT还不够狠,应该见证人也一票一投,锁仓票权24小时生效,不给旧势力一丝的喘气机会。