Author Topic: GET YOUR BTS XT Wallet Here!  (Read 24818 times)

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Offline luckybit

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That didn't answer any of my questions.

Specifically - Why did your company not hire a rock star developer full time to avoid bottlenecks?

Surely you should be able to attract talent and offer them a long term contract.

That is exactly what we have done!  Look at the great talent we have leading the other new DACs!

But Bitshares X (and the DPOS breakthrough all DACs require) were things we were not able to hand off to anyone.   Bytemaster had to do that himself.  Now that we have the required solution, Bytemaster has pulled the best talent he needs to get it coded and they are making great progress in nightly coding marathons.  Check out the github action and see for yourself.

Suggest reading The Mythical Man-month http://www.amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Anniversary-ebook/dp/B000OZ0N6M- a classic that explains why adding more people to a late project makes it later.  (Especially when the hold-up is the need for a missing invention.)

If I may chime in here. I think it's better to have Bytemaster work on the most critical portions of the code. The more developers working on a critical piece of code the more human beings we have to trust and the more difficult it will be to audit the code for people who actually read the code.

Bytemaster should work on Bitshares exclusively because he's the developer who has the absolute trust of the community. Those other developers may win our trust in the future but once again if we were asked to trust them all from the start it would be a vastly different value proposition as an investor.

As an investor if you do your do diligence you can read Bytemaster's code. It's very well written and documented. You can also read Toast's toolkit code which is also very well written.

Different developers have different styles. Some styles are more prone to bugs than others. The fact that Bytemaster took the time to ask the community to help him audit, and even offered rewards early on, are some of the reasons I had the ability to trust him enough to buy angelshares.


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Offline Stan

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There were not enough simultaneous new ideas to do a competition.
So we have been launching them one-by-one as developers appear and bubble to the top.
Perhaps as the current batch launches and creates buzz there will be a surge of more.
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Offline bitmeat

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Sounds great! You mentioned at some point something about opening the floor at the meet up in Vegas for DAC proposals.

What is the status of that? Also, sorry about hijacking the thread, I'll take this conversation offline.

Offline Stan

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I've read the mythical man-month. That mostly applies for trying to add 1,000 people to a 5,000 team in the last minute.

I agree that adding a person post Feb 28th was probably not going to help much, because it's about designing the algorithm, not the implementation.

However I would still argue that you COULD have had an alternative solution being developed side by side.

My biggest frustration here is that you consider yourself the authority on the subject because you have captured the funds.

However if you had offered a hefty bounty for developing a POS trading, I'm sure some talents, would have participated and the result would have been healthy competition. And by hefty bounty I mean $50K-$100K and above.

However you just assumed that Bytemaster is the best to do everything hard, and now you are going to lick your wounds.

The right way to do BitShares would have been to allow the community to decide which DACs they can put their money in. I definitely don't like the "I buy AGS, and I get % of all the DACs".

Furthermore creators of new DACs have to still organize their own funding. Which I thought your platform would allow.

Again as a developer I did not see compelling reasons to join your effort, and I would have loved to. You have attracted investments, but not development talent. Hopefully that will change soon.

Toast and Hackfisher already have grants greater than you suggest to independently develop their DACs.

If you are such talent, please arrange an interview with us and we'll see how we can get you involved!  I guarantee you we will offer a job (or award an outright grant to start a company) to anyone who can stay in the ring with bytemaster for one hour.

 :)

« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 01:43:38 am by Stan »
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Offline mavisjames

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Offline bitmeat

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I've read the mythical man-month. That mostly applies for trying to add 1,000 people to a 5,000 team in the last minute.

I agree that adding a person post Feb 28th was probably not going to help much, because it's about designing the algorithm, not the implementation.

However I would still argue that you COULD have had an alternative solution being developed side by side.

My biggest frustration here is that you consider yourself the authority on the subject because you have captured the funds.

However if you had offered a hefty bounty for developing a POS trading, I'm sure some talents, would have participated and the result would have been healthy competition. And by hefty bounty I mean $50K-$100K and above.

However you just assumed that Bytemaster is the best to do everything hard, and now you are going to lick your wounds.

The right way to do BitShares would have been to allow the community to decide which DACs they can put their money in. I definitely don't like the "I buy AGS, and I get % of all the DACs".

Furthermore creators of new DACs have to still organize their own funding. Which I thought your platform would allow.

Again as a developer I did not see compelling reasons to join your effort, and I would have loved to. You have attracted investments, but not development talent. Hopefully that will change soon.

Offline Stan

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That didn't answer any of my questions.

Specifically - Why did your company not hire a rock star developer full time to avoid bottlenecks?

Surely you should be able to attract talent and offer them a long term contract.

That is exactly what we have done!  Look at the great talent we have leading the other new DACs!

But Bitshares X (and the DPOS breakthrough all DACs require) were things we were not able to hand off to anyone.   Bytemaster had to do that himself.  Now that we have the required solution, Bytemaster has pulled the best talent he needs to get it coded and they are making great progress in nightly coding marathons.  Check out the github action and see for yourself.

Suggest reading The Mythical Man-month http://www.amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Anniversary-ebook/dp/B000OZ0N6M- a classic that explains why adding more people to a late project makes it later.  (Especially when the hold-up is the need for a missing invention.)



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Offline bitmeat

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That didn't answer any of my questions.

Specifically - Why did your company not hire a rock star developer full time to avoid bottlenecks?

Surely you should be able to attract talent and offer them a long term contract.

Offline Stan

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How time flies! summer is coming!!!
I still remember someone said that we would be happy this spring. But I'm not, at all.

I just had my driveway repaved.
About halfway through the task the contractor's paving equipment broke.
All that hot asphalt had to be roughly spread on the rest of the driveway by hand.
Then we had to drive over that mess for a week while the equipment was being repaired.
I wasn't happy.  Not at all.
But they came back and finished the job.
The driveway is much thicker than it would have been.
Everything is smooth and beautiful.
Now I am happy.  I hardly remember the time when I was unhappy.

 :)

Stan, what you are doing lately on these forums I think is called "lip-service". It's not fun anymore. Hire professionals, get it done.

What is the bottleneck? And why could you not solve it by hiring a top notch developer?

It is self-evident that it is in our best interest to get a system that will work deployed as soon as possible.
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Offline bitmeat

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How time flies! summer is coming!!!
I still remember someone said that we would be happy this spring. But I'm not, at all.

I just had my driveway repaved.
About halfway through the task the contractor's paving equipment broke.
All that hot asphalt had to be roughly spread on the rest of the driveway by hand.
Then we had to drive over that mess for a week while the equipment was being repaired.
I wasn't happy.  Not at all.
But they came back and finished the job.
The driveway is much thicker than it would have been.
Everything is smooth and beautiful.
Now I am happy.  I hardly remember the time when I was unhappy.

 :)

Stan, what you are doing lately on these forums I think is called "lip-service". It's not fun anymore. Hire professionals, get it done.

What is the bottleneck? And why could you not solve it by hiring a top notch developer?

Offline liondani

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How time flies! summer is coming!!!
I still remember someone said that we would be happy this spring. But I'm not, at all.

I just had my driveway repaved.
About halfway through the task the contractor's paving equipment broke.
All that hot asphalt had to be roughly spread on the rest of the driveway by hand.
Then we had to drive over that mess for a week while the equipment was being repaired.
I wasn't happy.  Not at all.
But they came back and finished the job.
The driveway is much thicker than it would have been.
Everything is smooth and beautiful.
Now I am happy.  I hardly remember the time when I was unhappy.

 :)

You are lucky the week of repairment nobody needed an ambulance ...

Offline Stan

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How time flies! summer is coming!!!
I still remember someone said that we would be happy this spring. But I'm not, at all.

I just had my driveway repaved.
About halfway through the task the contractor's paving equipment broke.
All that hot asphalt had to be roughly spread on the rest of the driveway by hand.
Then we had to drive over that mess for a week while the equipment was being repaired.
I wasn't happy.  Not at all.
But they came back and finished the job.
The driveway is much thicker than it would have been.
Everything is smooth and beautiful.
Now I am happy.  I hardly remember the time when I was unhappy.

 :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline callmeluc

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How time flies! summer is coming!!!
I still remember someone said that we would be happy this spring. But I'm not, at all.
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LOL. two months gone. :'(

Offline Schwede65

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i don't want to needle someone...

...but please tell us the time frame to release BTS XT

Edit: this thread is relevant: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1890.555
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 09:07:31 am by Schwede65 »

Offline bytemaster

For those who want to run something to *see* their BTS balances even if you cannot move them...

I created a tool for viewing your BTS balance from AGS or PTS given a Bitcoin-Qt or Protshares wallet.dat:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3330.msg41898#msg41898

thanks bytemaster

FYI - I just discovered a bug in this utility in how it prints your balance that may obscure the decimal point and make it appear that your balance is larger than it should be.   Since the web utilities are available now there you should double check there and the only difference should be where the decimal point is placed.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline sfinder

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just try to push this thread on the top <grin>
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Offline kmtan

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For those who want to run something to *see* their BTS balances even if you cannot move them...

I created a tool for viewing your BTS balance from AGS or PTS given a Bitcoin-Qt or Protshares wallet.dat:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3330.msg41898#msg41898

thanks bytemaster

Offline bytemaster

For those who want to run something to *see* their BTS balances even if you cannot move them...

I created a tool for viewing your BTS balance from AGS or PTS given a Bitcoin-Qt or Protshares wallet.dat:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3330.msg41898#msg41898

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline mint chocolate chip

i'm cool. take your time and do it right.  8)
Spot on. As anyone who has spent ample time doing their due diligence will tell you, this is uncharted territory, with things evolving. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this revolutionary new concept of DAC's. Have patience and enjoy the ride.

Offline cryptosig

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Thanks for the updates, a couple questions, does this mean every DAC will require a new wallet? 

And I get it's like a dividend but if DAC's become more substantial, could it be foreseeable that PTS will be worth less and less in time? Or are DAC's always considered a branch off of PTS main "stake".  thanks.
DAC's that donate a percentage of premined shares, following the social contract, will take a snapshot of the PTS and AGS blockchains. All DAC's will derive from the main "stake" as you put it. Protoshares is the parent of all the children DAC's, in turn DAC's have children chains.

PTS will be worth more in time, because it will have a predictable rate of return from new DAC's. It will also be proven through statistics that people who held wound up getting more DACs, and hence more shares in third party DACs.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 04:36:06 am by cryptosig »
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Offline cryptosig

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If you didn't know about the wallet not being done than don't sell your PTS. Chances are you also won't know about any third party snapshots, it's unrealistic to be able to come in and out of PTS before every snapshot is taken. Also at least 50% of bitshares come from AGS which can not be sold easily. I will bet that people who have AGS will wind up making the most money because they are guaranteed to never miss a snapshot date.
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Offline bubbler

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Offline Pauly

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Thanks for the updates, a couple questions, does this mean every DAC will require a new wallet? 

And I get it's like a dividend but if DAC's become more substantial, could it be forseeable that PTS will be worth less and less in time? Or are DAC's always considered a branch off of PTS main "stake".  thanks.

Offline mastermined

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i'm cool. take your time and do it right.  8)
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Offline Captain_Picard

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First, my hats off to all the hard work that is being done behind the scenes.  I trust we will be completely impressed with the result and overjoyed with our investments. 

In my case I found this forum recently without much time to research everything before the snapshot deadline, so I did not invest nearly as much (maybe 10%) as I would have had I been clear on several more aspects of the overall plan.  Am I ready to throw the other 90% in now that I think I understand?  So far, the answer is no.

Lol.... reminds me of this video that tries to explain the difference between Great Britain, England, the UK and the Crown:  http://biggeekdad.com/2011/03/the-uk-great-britain-and-england-explained/ 

except in this case we have Invictus, PTS, BTS, AGS plus a variety of future DACs.  I think a chart like they used at the end of the above video might be useful to explain the relationships of the different parts.

At least with Counterparty, Ethereum, Mastercoin, there is only one thing to buy as far as I can tell - the coin itself - and everyone who believes in their project buys that coin it is that simple.   I am sure the folks at Protoshares have it clear in their minds which stakes in which acronyms represent which opportunities, but if I tried to get other investors involved in this right now it would be far from a no-brainer and more like a mind-bender.

Regarding the previous comment "like trying to market the Internet in 1990, no one would understand..." you are exactly right, so the result was the only companies that actually succeeded WERE the ones who successfully explained and marketed it to the average Joe.  Most of the computer companies before Apple and the Internet companies who came before Google are dead Jim dead!  No matter how smart the developers were, the only ones that ever succeeded were the ones who could market to the masses.

This is why Dogecoin is succeeding, it might be the worst coin from a technical perspective, but a 10 year old "gets it" in about 15 seconds.  And, unfortunately, 10 year old brain power is a lot closer to the average out there in the world today...  I think platform for launching future DACs hold some promise as far as presenting simple solutions for real world problems.  I hope that is the end result of this project.

Offline bytemaster

Quote
In defense of Invictus, one of their competitors (sort of - people are awfully particular around here about the word "competitor") is called Counterparty. If you want to see some confusing investor relations, head over to forums.counterparty.co and try to figure out how to even install their software. They make Invictus look like Google.  :)

LOL.  Imagine trying to market the internet in 1990... no one even understands the basics and words hadn't even been invented to describe everything yet. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline oco101

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I guess my understanding was that after the snapshot PTS would become BTS so the old PTS would basically be worthless/removed after being replaced with BTS - this would be very clear and easy to understand.  But what we have now to me is somewhat confusing to both existing investors and potential investors and confusion is not desirable if you are running what amounts to an investment fund.

If someone wants to invest in PTS now (post snapshot), what should they do or why would they invest?  They've missed the benefit of getting in "pre-snapshot" but are unable to buy any new "post snapshot" BTS because they are not available on any exchange nor are there any wallets to store them.   What should a new investor do from this point, should they buy "post snapshot" PTS on an exchange at the now deflated price without knowing how/when those be converted into BTS or wait until BTS is "ready"? 

The "pre-snapshot" PTS and AGS gave investors share in BTS, as  this is the first DAC developed by Invictus.  PTS and AGS they are not transforming in BTS they still have a lot of value, as they will give you shares in all the new DAC Invictus  (and 3 parties developers that respect the social contract) are developing(Bitshare Dns, Bitshare Music, Bitshare Votes, etc)  please see this post here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2940.0 or  this video here http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/87448377/66716b27fa . The reason to invest  in PTS or AGS now it will be to get share in all the upcoming  chains DAC.

So If you acquire PTS or AGS now they will not give you any BTS .

As a investor if you are only interested in BTS-XT you should wait  until the BTS-XT share are out so you can buy them. Why would you be interested to buy BTS ? Well one of the reason is that all the future  product line of decentralized banks and exchanges will be  be initialized with a snapshot (100%) of the state of BitShares XT around the time of their launch. So what that means is let say if you have 10 BTSXT in your wallet and a new decentralized bank  it coming out  e.g. BitShares XI, you'll have 10 BTXI in the new bank.

- PTS&AGS will give you share in every new line of chains developed in the future. New line of chains meaning it a completely new kind of DAC (Bitshare Dns, Bitshare Music, Bitshare Votes, etc)

-BTSXT - Will give you share in all the new bank and exchanges that are developed base on the line of chain of  Bitshare-XT ( Bitshares XI, Bitshare XV , Bitshare XC, etc)


For the rest we already agree that as is it now it is not easy for a newbie to find and understand all the development that is happening. But I know there is a big marketing push in the planing, witch will come once the Bitshare-XT chains it working and stable. And let not forget there will be a new website that hopefully will be the one place to get all the information that you need please see : https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2927.msg37501#msg37501
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 09:42:53 pm by oco101 »

Offline biophil

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Thanks for the replies...

I am not trying to criticize anyone here, I am trying to explain this experience from a newbie investor's perspective so people know what we are thinking and seeing as this process evolves and hopefully learn from it.

I am fully comfortable with the idea of speculating on the future potential of an idea, and not looking to make a quick overnight buck, however I am not the only person confused with what has now happened post-snapshot.

I guess my understanding was that after the snapshot PTS would become BTS so the old PTS would basically be worthless/removed after being replaced with BTS - this would be very clear and easy to understand.  But what we have now to me is somewhat confusing to both existing investors and potential investors and confusion is not desirable if you are running what amounts to an investment fund.

If someone wants to invest in PTS now (post snapshot), what should they do or why would they invest?  They've missed the benefit of getting in "pre-snapshot" but are unable to buy any new "post snapshot" BTS because they are not available on any exchange nor are there any wallets to store them.   What should a new investor do from this point, should they buy "post snapshot" PTS on an exchange at the now deflated price without knowing how/when those be converted into BTS or wait until BTS is "ready"? 

Trust me, I think invictus has a lot more potential than Dogecoin or we would not be having this conversation, but the point I am trying to get across is that simple and direct communication and marketing is KEY to getting something off the ground and attracting investors and right now in this regard Doge is doing a far better job than Invictus.

I believe in the Invictus vision and maybe I am in the minority camp of being confused but you guys need help if you want to attract sophisticated investors who are accustomed to more traditional and simplified investor communications.   I am guessing this is not your highest priority while everything is still being built but if you need a marketing/communications person, let me know if I can help.

The commenter who clarified the use of the term "third party" helps a lot, I think?

Let me clarify another point: PTS do not "convert" to BTS; PTS pays a dividend of BTS. The Feb 28 snapshot was the ex-dividend date for BitShares X. Own PTS on Feb 28, you're entitled to a proportional number of BitShares X when it launches. But the whole thing is designed with the idea that BitShares X (Invictus's brand name for the decentralized bank and exchange product) is not the only DAC that Invictus will ever develop. If you own PTS today, those PTS will entitle you to shares in future Invictus projects, each with their own snapshot dates.

I sympathize with you and your confusion. I've been skulking around this forum for a month now and am just finally starting to figure all these things out. I agree that Invictus badly needs to figure out how to communicate this stuff well. They do have some kind of marketing director, but I don't know how he spends his time. My guess is that part of the problem is that they're in typical startup "running around with their heads cut off" mode and they aren't completely aware that their marketing is just awful.

In defense of Invictus, one of their competitors (sort of - people are awfully particular around here about the word "competitor") is called Counterparty. If you want to see some confusing investor relations, head over to forums.counterparty.co and try to figure out how to even install their software. They make Invictus look like Google.  :)
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Offline Captain_Picard

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Thanks for the replies...

I am not trying to criticize anyone here, I am trying to explain this experience from a newbie investor's perspective so people know what we are thinking and seeing as this process evolves and hopefully learn from it.

I am fully comfortable with the idea of speculating on the future potential of an idea, and not looking to make a quick overnight buck, however I am not the only person confused with what has now happened post-snapshot.

I guess my understanding was that after the snapshot PTS would become BTS so the old PTS would basically be worthless/removed after being replaced with BTS - this would be very clear and easy to understand.  But what we have now to me is somewhat confusing to both existing investors and potential investors and confusion is not desirable if you are running what amounts to an investment fund.

If someone wants to invest in PTS now (post snapshot), what should they do or why would they invest?  They've missed the benefit of getting in "pre-snapshot" but are unable to buy any new "post snapshot" BTS because they are not available on any exchange nor are there any wallets to store them.   What should a new investor do from this point, should they buy "post snapshot" PTS on an exchange at the now deflated price without knowing how/when those be converted into BTS or wait until BTS is "ready"? 

Trust me, I think invictus has a lot more potential than Dogecoin or we would not be having this conversation, but the point I am trying to get across is that simple and direct communication and marketing is KEY to getting something off the ground and attracting investors and right now in this regard Doge is doing a far better job than Invictus.

I believe in the Invictus vision and maybe I am in the minority camp of being confused but you guys need help if you want to attract sophisticated investors who are accustomed to more traditional and simplified investor communications.   I am guessing this is not your highest priority while everything is still being built but if you need a marketing/communications person, let me know if I can help.

The commenter who clarified the use of the term "third party" helps a lot, I think?

Offline biophil

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So our current holdings of PTS are not worth anything in its former version "PTS" but there is no wallet ready to enable those funds to be transferred to the new version of BTS XT, which means we just have to sit on our hands and wait until (hopefully) a third party comes along and produces a wallet?

Another important thing to recognize is that Invictus themselves have huge PTS holdings that also just lost 50% of their value to the "limbo" that you speak of. They can't recoup this value until BitShares XT is launched, which gives them a very strong incentive ($1,000,000+) to complete the BitShares XT software as quickly as possible.

You seem worried about the "3rd party" thing as well, but that's just because Invictus is very particular about the usage of "develop" and "launch": Invictus makes big claims that they will not actually be the ones who launch BitShares XT, but that's misleading because they are the ones who develop the software. They'll develop it, and then some anonymous person who lives somewhere with a permissive government will actually click the button that "launches" it. Invictus says this because they think it'll keep them out of legal trouble in the US.
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Offline Ykw

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I think the negative feedback stems from the fact that investors' money is currently in "limbo" without being forewarned of this fact (at least I didn't get the memo that there would be no wallet "for awhile"). 

So our current holdings of PTS are not worth anything in its former version "PTS" but there is no wallet ready to enable those funds to be transferred to the new version of BTS XT, which means we just have to sit on our hands and wait until (hopefully) a third party comes along and produces a wallet?

I guess I was under the impression that after the snapshot date, our funds would be credited to a new crypto currency that we could then trade/liquidate on the exchanges just like before.  Instead, it seems like our funds are trapped and awaiting a "third party".  What did I miss in the initial explanation or am I misunderstanding something? 

If I did miss something, you have to understand for newbies, we might not have read through the thousands of forum pages to figure out WTF is going on.  I think there needs to be more clarity from ProtoShares communication desks so instead of a lengthy forum page that we have to weed through to find the facts, some simple and clear explanations on their home page or some centralized communication source would be helpful.

So, now that I have PTS sitting in my wallet, what exactly do I have?  A claim for some new and improved BitShares that currently have no wallet, no exchangeable value, and no actual DAC or any functional benefit whatsoever but a long list of promises?  I am fine with speculating on the future potential of ProtoShares, every crypto I own is a speculation on the future, but I don't remember reading about how my funds would just sit there indefinitely for a month or more until some unknown third parties come up with something valuable to offer to the marketplace.

At least with Dogecoin I can sell it tomorrow if I decide the speculation is not worth the risk.  Seems this option is unavailable with PTS/BTS.  If this potential lack of liquidity was explained before the snapshot, where was this info posted?

The snapshot was taken in 28 that all, there is no wallet and they never promise one on 28. They always stated that the Bts-x chain will be release at the earliest  on 15 of March please read the February newsletter https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=post;topic=3291.15;last_msg=41778
Buying PTS or AGS you invested on a idea so you are a earlier investor and yes for now you can not trade the BTS-X for now If you wanted to make a quick buck well you'll have to be patient.
You right about finding information on the website and forum, it's not easy, but that about to change there will be a new website on March 24 and will have everything in one place. 3I it is a 3 month old company, and they are trying hard to do as much as they can, finding developers,marketing campaign, making investors happy, developing keyhotee & BTS-X, etc. Yes not everything it's perfect and there is a lot to be done, but they need our support and our trust especially if you believe the vision behind Invictus. If not you can go with Dogecoin vision.
The PTS yes they lost a lot of value but this is was to be expected, and that should not come as a surprise for anybody. PTS will rise sooner or later. And not sure if you understand that part but now if you want, you can sell you PTS no problem it will not affect your BTS-X holding.

THANK YOU =) I was going to advice him to read any way...

My advice when anyone is filling dump or with lack of understanding: read more... don't assume that the world is fighting over you at the first second!
And the reality is that information needs to be communicated... some might take more time others not.. depending on the mechanism you use to get it. Generally speaking if you read more posts you will "loose" more time.. but you will be better informed. The opposite applies too.

Offline oco101

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I think the negative feedback stems from the fact that investors' money is currently in "limbo" without being forewarned of this fact (at least I didn't get the memo that there would be no wallet "for awhile"). 

So our current holdings of PTS are not worth anything in its former version "PTS" but there is no wallet ready to enable those funds to be transferred to the new version of BTS XT, which means we just have to sit on our hands and wait until (hopefully) a third party comes along and produces a wallet?

I guess I was under the impression that after the snapshot date, our funds would be credited to a new crypto currency that we could then trade/liquidate on the exchanges just like before.  Instead, it seems like our funds are trapped and awaiting a "third party".  What did I miss in the initial explanation or am I misunderstanding something? 

If I did miss something, you have to understand for newbies, we might not have read through the thousands of forum pages to figure out WTF is going on.  I think there needs to be more clarity from ProtoShares communication desks so instead of a lengthy forum page that we have to weed through to find the facts, some simple and clear explanations on their home page or some centralized communication source would be helpful.

So, now that I have PTS sitting in my wallet, what exactly do I have?  A claim for some new and improved BitShares that currently have no wallet, no exchangeable value, and no actual DAC or any functional benefit whatsoever but a long list of promises?  I am fine with speculating on the future potential of ProtoShares, every crypto I own is a speculation on the future, but I don't remember reading about how my funds would just sit there indefinitely for a month or more until some unknown third parties come up with something valuable to offer to the marketplace.

At least with Dogecoin I can sell it tomorrow if I decide the speculation is not worth the risk.  Seems this option is unavailable with PTS/BTS.  If this potential lack of liquidity was explained before the snapshot, where was this info posted?

The snapshot was taken in 28 that all, there is no wallet and they never promise one on 28. They always stated that the Bts-x chain will be release at the earliest  on 15 of March please read the February newsletter https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=post;topic=3291.15;last_msg=41778
Buying PTS or AGS you invested on a idea so you are a earlier investor and yes for now you can not trade the BTS-X for now If you wanted to make a quick buck well you'll have to be patient.
You right about finding information on the website and forum, it's not easy, but that about to change there will be a new website on March 24 and will have everything in one place. 3I it is a 3 month old company, and they are trying hard to do as much as they can, finding developers,marketing campaign, making investors happy, developing keyhotee & BTS-X, etc. Yes not everything it's perfect and there is a lot to be done, but they need our support and our trust especially if you believe the vision behind Invictus. If not you can go with Dogecoin vision.
The PTS yes they lost a lot of value but this is was to be expected, and that should not come as a surprise for anybody. PTS will rise sooner or later. And not sure if you understand that part but now if you want, you can sell you PTS no problem it will not affect your BTS-X holding.

Offline aasl

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mark for future updates.

Offline Captain_Picard

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I think the negative feedback stems from the fact that investors' money is currently in "limbo" without being forewarned of this fact (at least I didn't get the memo that there would be no wallet "for awhile"). 

So our current holdings of PTS are not worth anything in its former version "PTS" but there is no wallet ready to enable those funds to be transferred to the new version of BTS XT, which means we just have to sit on our hands and wait until (hopefully) a third party comes along and produces a wallet?

I guess I was under the impression that after the snapshot date, our funds would be credited to a new crypto currency that we could then trade/liquidate on the exchanges just like before.  Instead, it seems like our funds are trapped and awaiting a "third party".  What did I miss in the initial explanation or am I misunderstanding something? 

If I did miss something, you have to understand for newbies, we might not have read through the thousands of forum pages to figure out WTF is going on.  I think there needs to be more clarity from ProtoShares communication desks so instead of a lengthy forum page that we have to weed through to find the facts, some simple and clear explanations on their home page or some centralized communication source would be helpful.

So, now that I have PTS sitting in my wallet, what exactly do I have?  A claim for some new and improved BitShares that currently have no wallet, no exchangeable value, and no actual DAC or any functional benefit whatsoever but a long list of promises?  I am fine with speculating on the future potential of ProtoShares, every crypto I own is a speculation on the future, but I don't remember reading about how my funds would just sit there indefinitely for a month or more until some unknown third parties come up with something valuable to offer to the marketplace.

At least with Dogecoin I can sell it tomorrow if I decide the speculation is not worth the risk.  Seems this option is unavailable with PTS/BTS.  If this potential lack of liquidity was explained before the snapshot, where was this info posted?

Offline Empirical1

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We will see the free drop of PTS because of your delay and undefined period of time.

We are seeing the drop of PTS because it no longer contains the value of BTS, because there is market consensus that BTS is valuable. I am dumbfounded that this is surprising to people.

I guess there's always one...

'Hmm... Why is PTS dropping? It's almost as if there was an event that everyone else knew about that happened on the 28th, weird...'

Offline biophil

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We will see the free drop of PTS because of your delay and undefined period of time.

We are seeing the drop of PTS because it no longer contains the value of BTS, because there is market consensus that BTS is valuable. I am dumbfounded that this is surprising to people.
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Offline Empirical1

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I can be quite quick to criticise, but in this case, all of this was clearly laid out and Bitshares  + Bytemaster is the most exciting thing I've seen in a looong time.

My only regret is that I didn't buy more Bitshares via AGS/PTS, would be nice if there was a market to buy more if this interim period ends up lasting longer than a month.

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wow so much unfounded frustration being pointed towards the man who is writing some of the most interesting and important software of our time.

Keep your chin up Dan... I appreciate the fuck outa you.

I agree. Good things take time. I wish I could send you a mobile massage team to the office or pay the team a 3-day wellness spa experience.

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Offline coolspeed

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Hope it not slip out of Q1.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 10:15:00 am by coolspeed »
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Offline Ohpinot

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why were you in such a hurry to take that snapshot and announce BTS XT, if you din't even have a wallet handy . .! further as promised in the beginig that BTS will be launched when PTS will be minned completely, now you leave some 60k plus future PTS holders out of the race from you most promising DAC.. you know what, people are going to be gox'd by you, just a matter of time if you will keep acting immature,, no matter what your intentions are

1.  Sooner is better when everyone is trying to do the same thing.

2.  Miners are paid employees who provide security for the network, that is it.  You do the work, you get paid.  BTS isn't a charity that will just hand out shares for the heck of it.  If someone wanted a piece of the action, they could get in just like everyone else.

3.  The snapshot wasn't in a hurry, there was two months! of notice, this snapshot wouldn't take anyone by surprise.  There were posts on every social network about the snapshot, taking your PTS from exchanges, etc.

4.   People will take you more seriously if you take the time to get your spelling and grammar correct.  Not being a dick here, but come on, you just sound like a rambling idiot, one of many on the internet.  Take double the time to write that and you will be amazed by how much more people will respond to you.

Offline betax

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I don't understand the negative comments, if you read the progress update thread you can see what is currently happening.

In the benefit of all the current stakeholders, and people that have believed in this product from the start, an snapshot has been taken on the 28th and future developments will be initiated from this one, that's it, plenty of notice so everyone has enough time to get pts / ags.

Not only that but we, us little (me) or big investors, even have announcements of future DACs, which seem to be as interesting or more than the current one. (Your small PTS / AGS is still valuable).

I personally wished I had more PTS, Bitcoin (to donate) before the time, but I considered myself lucky to have at least something even if I joined the crypto party a bit late, and of course this is a risky investment!.

What is 15 / 30 days in software development :o .

« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 07:03:34 am by betax »
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Offline smiley35

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wow so much unfounded frustration being pointed towards the man who is writing some of the most interesting and important software of our time.

Keep your chin up Dan... I appreciate the fuck outa you.

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We will see the free drop of PTS because of your delay and undefined period of time.

Offline Strip

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So... There are no BTS for now. Peoples investment stuck for an undefined period of time. It is no good regarding uncertainty with bitcoin.

What will happen with AGS donation, if bitcoin fail? Will it be honored in future?




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Offline NewMine

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I'd really encourage you to rethink your "attention grabbing" subjects, as it creates unnecessary, incorrect expectations.

Agreed.


Offline kamikataz

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The BitShares XT wallet will be posted in this thread when it is available.   The snapshot and release date are two totally different and independent events.    We wanted to announce the snapshot with as much warning as possible and thus we picked a nice easy date to announce the snapshot.   We will save the snapshot and release a wallet only AFTER THE CODE IS READY which for obvious reasons we are working on as quickly as humanly possible.

Our original plans of the Ides of March is probably optimistic at this point given where we are today.   If you would like a steady update on the development progress you can visit the BitShares X status update thread where I post almost daily updates.

When a wallet is made available for download (by a third party) we will post it in this thread.


why were you in such a hurry to take that snapshot and announce BTS XT, if you din't even have a wallet handy . .! further as promised in the beginig that BTS will be launched when PTS will be minned completely, now you leave some 60k plus future PTS holders out of the race from you most promising DAC.. you know what, people are going to be gox'd by you, just a matter of time if you will keep acting immature,, no matter what your intentions are

Probably because it would be better for everyone involved if the product is launched in mid to late March than in December when there would  undoubtedly be more competition. The whole first mover advantage thing... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage


 :) :) Dude, PTS was the first move, and launching BTSX, in striped down fashion will only give competition a second mover advantage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-mover_advantage#Second-mover_advantage ....

Offline mint chocolate chip

The BitShares XT wallet will be posted in this thread when it is available.   The snapshot and release date are two totally different and independent events.    We wanted to announce the snapshot with as much warning as possible and thus we picked a nice easy date to announce the snapshot.   We will save the snapshot and release a wallet only AFTER THE CODE IS READY which for obvious reasons we are working on as quickly as humanly possible.

Our original plans of the Ides of March is probably optimistic at this point given where we are today.   If you would like a steady update on the development progress you can visit the BitShares X status update thread where I post almost daily updates.

When a wallet is made available for download (by a third party) we will post it in this thread.


why were you in such a hurry to take that snapshot and announce BTS XT, if you din't even have a wallet handy . .! further as promised in the beginig that BTS will be launched when PTS will be minned completely, now you leave some 60k plus future PTS holders out of the race from you most promising DAC.. you know what, people are going to be gox'd by you, just a matter of time if you will keep acting immature,, no matter what your intentions are

Probably because it would be better for everyone involved if the product is launched in mid to late March than in December when there would  undoubtedly be more competition. The whole first mover advantage thing... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage

Offline kamikataz

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The BitShares XT wallet will be posted in this thread when it is available.   The snapshot and release date are two totally different and independent events.    We wanted to announce the snapshot with as much warning as possible and thus we picked a nice easy date to announce the snapshot.   We will save the snapshot and release a wallet only AFTER THE CODE IS READY which for obvious reasons we are working on as quickly as humanly possible.

Our original plans of the Ides of March is probably optimistic at this point given where we are today.   If you would like a steady update on the development progress you can visit the BitShares X status update thread where I post almost daily updates.

When a wallet is made available for download (by a third party) we will post it in this thread.


why were you in such a hurry to take that snapshot and announce BTS XT, if you din't even have a wallet handy . .! further as promised in the beginig that BTS will be launched when PTS will be minned completely, now you leave some 60k plus future PTS holders out of the race from you most promising DAC.. you know what, people are going to be gox'd by you, just a matter of time if you will keep acting immature,, no matter what your intentions are 

bitbro

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I'd really encourage you to rethink your "attention grabbing" subjects, as it creates unnecessary, incorrect expectations.

Then why don't you?


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Offline maqifrnswa

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has the snapshot completed?

won't know for sure for ~1 hour. block time stamps can have ~2 hour delay from network consensus time. Most likely yes, but there's still a chance it hasn't happened yet.

As of now, the network will accept time stamps > 2/28/2014 11:09 PM (UTC) even though it is 3/1/2014 1:35 AM (it's the median of the last 11 blocks)

EDIT: as of now, we need 2 more blocks with March 1 time stamps for
https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Blocks/0000001810185022d2b496e2ae59368b1e6fbc40dc82a77e79b90630dfcf89f6
to become the official block
EDIT2: block 57793 found, barring massive orphaning,
https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Blocks/0000001810185022d2b496e2ae59368b1e6fbc40dc82a77e79b90630dfcf89f6
looks to be it
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 01:48:03 am by maqifrnswa »
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Offline jwiz168

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I'd really encourage you to rethink your "attention grabbing" subjects, as it creates unnecessary, incorrect expectations.

Adam was right.  Subjects were confusing. For a minute i assumed that the BTS wallet was ready for download.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 01:13:26 am by jwiz168 »

Offline crazybit

has the snapshot completed?

Offline peterzz

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mark,
I look forward to download BTS!

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Offline toast

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I'd really encourage you to rethink your "attention grabbing" subjects, as it creates unnecessary, incorrect expectations.

I thought that was industry standard

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Offline AdamBLevine

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I'd really encourage you to rethink your "attention grabbing" subjects, as it creates unnecessary, incorrect expectations.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline bytemaster

Cool~~~ Can I interpret that the earliest possible release date is 15th March?

Yes... that would be the earliest.
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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Cool~~~ Can I interpret that the earliest possible release date is 15th March?
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Offline bytemaster

The BitShares XT wallet will be posted in this thread when it is available.   The snapshot and release date are two totally different and independent events.    We wanted to announce the snapshot with as much warning as possible and thus we picked a nice easy date to announce the snapshot.   We will save the snapshot and release a wallet only AFTER THE CODE IS READY which for obvious reasons we are working on as quickly as humanly possible.

Our original plans of the Ides of March is probably optimistic at this point given where we are today.   If you would like a steady update on the development progress you can visit the BitShares X status update thread where I post almost daily updates.

When a wallet is made available for download (by a third party) we will post it in this thread.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.