111* days estimated for Difficulty to retarget. Could this kill PTS?

[Troglodactyl]

...

AGS holders are not diluted by this at all as the value of their 10% is independent of the 10% held by PTS holders.   It will affect the PTS/AGS price ratio, but not the BTC/AGS price ratio. 

On the other hand stopping inflation of PTS and making AGS liquid at the same time may add value to both parties positions and would dramatically simplify the understanding of our ecosystem.  The benefits might be a win for all.   

I think we may have a good plan here if we can get enough community buy-in.

Ok, so to clarify, this proposal is to fork PTS into a TaPOS chain, with a total supply of 4 million, and genesis block consisting of a current PTS snapshot scaled up to 2 million, along with 2 million current AGS state.  Is this correct?

If that's the plan, the question would be how exactly to rework the PTS side of the AGS donations.  Either the daily BTC donation reward could absorb the PTS allocation, or the time frame could be extended.

[bytemaster]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

This is what I think most people have been doing that are long Invictus plans that have wanted to continue to mine since mining dropped of a cliff.

Are you sure this won't disrupt your AGS holders feeling? Since now, 10% is split between 1.6million shares instead of 2 million therefore increasing PTS long term value.
I am ok with the idea because it benefits me as a PTS holder only.

I am still confused as to why action was not taken sooner? As if you didn't care when this was first brought up 11 days ago. I am glad you are acting now.

AGS holders are not diluted by this at all as the value of their 10% is independent of the 10% held by PTS holders.   It will affect the PTS/AGS price ratio, but not the BTC/AGS price ratio. 

On the other hand stopping inflation of PTS and making AGS liquid at the same time may add value to both parties positions and would dramatically simplify the understanding of our ecosystem.  The benefits might be a win for all.   

I think we may have a good plan here if we can get enough community buy-in.

[bytemaster]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. 

In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS,  making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.

Arn't your shares mined?   Does it depend upon that mining being profitable?   If that is the case then I see no reason why you would want to discourage people from mining your coin.   I was trying to pump your coin lol... no hard feelings about NRS. 

[thisisausername]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

Great idea.  If PTS mining still isn't moving by the time it could be converted to TaPOS, this is definitely the route we should take.

[NewMine]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

This is what I think most people have been doing that are long Invictus plans that have wanted to continue to mine since mining dropped of a cliff.

Are you sure this won't disrupt your AGS holders feeling? Since now, 10% is split between 1.6million shares instead of 2 million therefore increasing PTS long term value.
I am ok with the idea because it benefits me as a PTS holder only.

I am still confused as to why action was not taken sooner? As if you didn't care when this was first brought up 11 days ago. I am glad you are acting now.

[BldSwtTrs]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

How do you come up with a 30% increase in the long term?

Edit : OK I get it. No more PTS would be create.
So... I  think you should do that 

[CryptoN8]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

I think it's a great idea. I have sort of been doing that, mining Alts, since this whole mess started at the last diff increase. I've converted all my PTS rigs to Scrypt and pointed everything at http://ScryptGuild.com. It's a great auto-switch Scrypt pool run by Eleuthria, the OP of BTCGuild. It mines the most profitable Alts, and you get paid in BTC. Then feel free to buy PTS or whatever.

But I really like the idea of getting paid in BTS. Where can I get more info on how to setup a BTS pool? I'm not a programmer but we can run it by him and see if he wants to add support. We need to get the right people talking to each other to make it happen. If it's not much overhead, and there is profit to be made, he'll most likely do it. I'm sure he wants to get into some next level stuff.

[barwizi]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea?

leave NRS out of your nefarious plans Dan. 

In fact, people should mine PTS and trade for NRS,  making such a move would increase the value of NRS in the long term by 30%.   

[bytemaster]

Here is a thread that has identified a means for miners to mine BTS:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3587.msg45111#msg45111

The reality is that people can mine anything and trade it for PTS.   Miners should always mine what is most profitable so they can maximize their ROI.

That said it seems like we could benefit everyone by converting PTS to TaPOS and then allowing those who want to invest by mining to mine one of the other coins out there... NoirShares, DOGE, etc and then buy PTS on BTER.   In fact, making such a move would increase the value of PTS in the long term by 30%.   

What would everyone think about such an idea? 

[Stan]

BitShares-PTS it's an investment cryptocurrency and peoples except speculators doesn't care about network speed. One more fork give us more problems and repute disadvantages.

All the more reason to do something if you can.  These investors on a normal network would be getting 3x the number of shares and here you are saying, "FU, not our problem. Go ahead and waste your time and energy mining for 1/3 the payout/dividends in the future, but keep mining to keep the network limping along."

In our current case any solution requires hard fork. I can't consider current situation as a huge problem. The miners rewards doesn't connect to the network speed, with same diff they get same amount of PTS per day. The miners left the network because the exchange rate was drop.
Maybe I missed something important but I really doesn't see this as a problem.

Unfortunately KGW has some security disadvantages and probably in our case better to drop diff retarget from 4032 to 2016 blocks but again this requires hard fork.

Testz, I think you are missing something important.  The time to retarget is getting longer, not shorter, therefore the the target block will never be reached.  You will never have 2 million protoshares.  This will make Invictus look bad.   You said that a fork will have reputation disadvantages, not doing anything will be a much bigger reputation problem.

Unless, speaking hypothetically of course, 2Q14 were to somehow become the most interesting quarter we have ever had...

 

[sumantso]

Implementing KGW or changing the retarget interval will require code to be changed, and everybody to download new clients.  Plus the stigma of a "hard fork".

A matching bounty on each block mined, up until the difficulty reset, would require just a bit of accounting work.  (And ~3500 PTS.)  The bounties could even be paid out over time, say every 100 blocks or something.  Pools would have to make some changes, but they would just have to keep track of amounts credited to miners, and double them when they receive the bounty payment.

Of course, that doesn't solve the problem long-term; the next DAC snapshot announcement will undoubtedly bring in a lot of new mining power, and after the snapshot, price will drop and the miners will go away again, and the loyal miners will be stuck with the high difficulty again.

The bounty need not even be every block mined, might be once every 5 blocks. It can even be made random like a lottery. Post this like a game at BTCtalk and others and theres some free buzz.

The bounty has to be paid only till the next retarget. After that it will be back to business, unless there is a snapshot. I don't think there will be another snapshot with shares still left to mine.

[wsnnwa]

While I am holding 200 PTS, I will not be mining PTS any more until I can at least pay my energy bill from it. 

[barwizi]

i've said enough. I could keep ruffling feathers but i owe it to NoirShares holders to put their interests first. so i'll excuse myself from this thread, keep working on it however guys, before it dies.

[Agent86]

BitShares-PTS it's an investment cryptocurrency and peoples except speculators doesn't care about network speed. One more fork give us more problems and repute disadvantages.

All the more reason to do something if you can.  These investors on a normal network would be getting 3x the number of shares and here you are saying, "FU, not our problem. Go ahead and waste your time and energy mining for 1/3 the payout/dividends in the future, but keep mining to keep the network limping along."

In our current case any solution requires hard fork. I can't consider current situation as a huge problem. The miners rewards doesn't connect to the network speed, with same diff they get same amount of PTS per day. The miners left the network because the exchange rate was drop.
Maybe I missed something important but I really doesn't see this as a problem.

Unfortunately KGW has some security disadvantages and probably in our case better to drop diff retarget from 4032 to 2016 blocks but again this requires hard fork.

Testz, I think you are missing something important.  The time to retarget is getting longer, not shorter, therefore the the target block will never be reached.  You will never have 2 million protoshares.  This will make Invictus look bad.   You said that a fork will have reputation disadvantages, not doing anything will be a much bigger reputation problem. 

[Schwede65]

new KGW called DGW
coder please have a look here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.8760

chaeplin wrote

"
Yay name is "DarkGravityWave"

https://github.com/evan82/darkcoin/commit/50189ca2a010728bc559a4f46568267bf13b7ff7
"

Its not tested how can you trust it?

o.k. then forget KGW or DGW

only a suggestion:
implement a short time-retarget after 16 or 32 blocks with maximum swing of +- 50 %
regarding the difficult-average of the last 128 blocks

25% swing makes for smoother transitions.  but i think this is a better idea .

i think you have a good smoothing with the average-difficulty of the "old" last 128 blocks, but yeah - you are a developer of some alt-coins and though you have an excellent view on this PTS-coin

Edit: "Last 5 blocks: 3,401,343.71 cpm ETA: 59d 12:49:15" - Blocks to retarget: 1874
the 59 month are not far away