Author Topic: DACIndex.com now live  (Read 7066 times)

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bitbro

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2014, 01:49:13 am »
You seem to think I mean "there shouldn't be a team developing"

That's not what I mean.  I mean if you put all your eggs in one basket, lets say all you invest in is Bitcoin.   Then when Bitshares comes along and it starts going up in price, well you don't have any of that and it's getting all this attention instead of Bitcoin.  What a dick that bitshares is, why can't they just get out of the way when Bitshares is really just a modification on the idea you already invested in Bitcoin. 

You don't want to get your head in a space where "Myself" = "The Investment" because that means if the investment has something going wrong with it, you'll miss it.  You're too close to it. 

And to the guy who is all in Angelshares, that's exactly my point.

Yeah, I'm all in with I3 so quit fudding up the forum with your fud.  Like Stan says be a good sport and become your own industry developer instead of trying to hijack this one. You're not management here and I for certain would not be all in with AGS if you were


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« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 03:17:51 am by bitbro »

Offline donkeypong

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2014, 07:23:25 am »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Offline CLains

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2014, 01:07:09 pm »
Thoughts?   :)

You need to use the Wisdom and Creativity of the Crowd as SANITY CHECK.

This is impossible if you don't do detailed proposals before the allocation of resources. If you do so, you get to map potential flaws, suggested improvements and creative alternatives. If you don't, you'll be stuck with an idea born only of the faith the team or even one person has in it.

Bytemaster has been doing this type of sanity check since 2010, and that why everyone trusts him; because he doesn't simply have faith in his own judgement.

In addition to this critique of specific ideas, I would also argue that you need to involve the community in a) the very positing of ideas, and b) in the bigger picture.

a) Involve the community in the positing of ideas by asking them to suggest alternative ideas. For instance, in the obi-wan meme thread the question remains, why only obi-wan memes?.

b) Involve the community in the bigger picture by presenting it in detail. The big picture plan you have mapped out for the next year is just an idea like any other, it needs the same type of sanity check as all other ideas.

It is a radical way to run a company and the legitimate objections I find is first, that openness about plans will allow others to sue, exploit or steal the ideas, and second, that it might lag the implementation process.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 02:17:20 pm by CLains »

Offline Stan

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2014, 02:49:38 pm »
Thoughts?   :)

You need to use the Wisdom and Creativity of the Crowd as SANITY CHECK.

This is impossible if you don't do detailed proposals before the allocation of resources. If you do so, you get to map potential flaws, suggested improvements and creative alternatives. If you don't, you'll be stuck with an idea born only of the faith the team or even one person has in it.

Bytemaster has been doing this type of sanity check since 2010, and that why everyone trusts him; because he doesn't simply have faith in his own judgement.

In addition to this critique of specific ideas, I would also argue that you need to involve the community in a) the very positing of ideas, and b) in the bigger picture.

a) Involve the community in the positing of ideas by asking them to suggest alternative ideas. For instance, in the obi-wan meme thread the question remains, why only obi-wan memes?.

b) Involve the community in the bigger picture by presenting it in detail. The big picture plan you have mapped out for the next year is just an idea like any other, it needs the same type of sanity check as all other ideas.

It is a radical way to run a company and the legitimate objections I find is first, that openness about plans will allow others to sue, exploit or steal the ideas, and second, that it might lag the implementation process.

Agreed.  You can see the good and bad features of this process on display here every day.  Even giving "competing" teams free insights about potential flaws in their approach before they waste any of their money going down a dead end. 

That's why the proposed Shark Tank competition was presented as a list of ideas for comment and why it explicitly suggested that draft and detailed proposals be posted in the forum for community review.  Also, the mini-AGS donation phase let people express in the strongest possible terms which one they like best.  And the ability to question the finalists before a group of qualified industry leading judges make the final down-selection and award.  (While allowing other venture capitalists to participate in the whole open process and maybe fund one or more others.)

But this can't be the only way.  Some people want their privacy respected.  Some don't want to give away their great idea prematurely.  Some want to do a more traditional teaming process and negotiate in private.  We have to respect that too.

If we don't get a big enough batch of willing contestants to run a public competition, we may have to find a way to fund them one by one. 

We can't keep a great idea waiting very long!   

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Offline bytemaster

Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2014, 06:10:45 pm »

Why not have a simple way for developers to start an AGS 2.0 fund for any qualified DAC team that wants to develop - let them do more fund raising on our forum


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This is exactly the point of the other 80%.   Ags funds will be used to build the best available dacs.  We have many on our roadmap and will gladly fund a team that wants to build one of them. 

Everyone sees the big ags pool of funds as if they are unlimited.   The can fund a dev team for a few dacs for one year.  We want to be very careful about what dacs and what order. 

Every good dac has its own fund raising system and should not require ags funds from us.


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Offline CLains

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2014, 06:43:31 pm »
Thanks for the reply Stan.

I will help trying to push forward everything that I think the community should be involved in. The general section will quickly self-organize with the format [suggestion], [bounty proposal], [social], [marketing], [Invictus proposal], etc.

If the community moves first, then allocation of resources and dedicated sections etc. can come later. Overall, we're already moving in this direction. This is partly because of the heated series of discussions recently and partly because everyone at Invictus has been busy.

The community is starting to act on its own on behalf of the AGS/PTS holders. I think everyone will agree this is a good thing.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 06:48:34 pm by CLains »

Offline fuzzy

Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2014, 08:24:55 pm »
Seriously, just incentivize the market to duke it out for the big prizes you set up to give to the winner.  If you try to pick winning projects now YOU WILL BE WRONG but if you just say "Whoever is the most successful Invictus DAC as judged by profitability for the token holders in one year gets <big pile of money>", do the same thing again in year two but the guy who won last year can't win this year.   

Don't predict outcomes, reward them.  The market will solve your problem and you'll only pay for the best solution.

Bounties to this point have been specific and task oriented, outsourced R&D really.   This is different.

Out of this entire thread, I have to say this is the most lucid idea out there.  It is SO simple to attain too...

However, I can also say that in the grand scheme of things, Invictus has, after only 4 months has a working beta in this BLEEDING edge of technology.  In my humble opinion there is NO good reason to try to release numerous DACs all at once and this would put Invictus in a place where they are having to rush things that honestly do not need to be rushed.  I don't care who comes out with the first banking DAC...I care about who comes out with the first FUNCTIONAL AND SECURE one.  These things take time.  How long did it take for Bitcoin to catch on again?  Some might even say it STILL hasn't caught on. 

With that said, instead of putting your relatively large amount of capital to work posting bounties (like everyone else), POST A CHALLENGE for ANY team who breaks Bitshares.  If they win, they receive an ample reward in the next, UPGRADED Bitshares chain and a temporary job with Invictus (maybe 1 year?).  At that point, they are given the opportunity to fight it out yet again in ANOTHER competition.  Developers who break and help strengthen BitShares will become FAMOUS among the Crypto Community and this will, in turn, bring more Devs who want to get that kind of recognition AND will enrich the entire crypto world.  What better way to bring value to PTS/AGS than actually contributing something amazing to the world? 

I have seen some of those shitty places and I would give my PTS/AGS just to see it happen.  Don't get profit and our real reason on this planet confused.  Profit is not the master of Purpose. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 11:58:47 pm by fuznuts »
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Offline Ohpinot

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2014, 08:50:34 pm »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Adam has clearly shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC idea work.  He has written, conversed, and added a ton of value to this space.  What have you done besides shit on his work and say that he is wasting his time.  Honestly if he isn't involved or has walked away, then that is a strong indication that we should leave as well.

bitbro

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DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2014, 09:01:58 pm »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Adam has clearly shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC idea work.  He has written, conversed, and added a ton of value to this space.  What have you done besides shit on his work and say that he is wasting his time.  Honestly if he isn't involved or has walked away, then that is a strong indication that we should leave as well.

As far as I care to see it, this could probably be Adam under a new account


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Offline barwizi

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2014, 09:12:04 pm »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Adam has clearly shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC idea work.  He has written, conversed, and added a ton of value to this space.  What have you done besides shit on his work and say that he is wasting his time.  Honestly if he isn't involved or has walked away, then that is a strong indication that we should leave as well.

As far as I care to see it, this could probably be Adam under a new account


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ah, exactly what would be the point of that? He has nothing to hide.
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bitbro

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DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2014, 09:13:36 pm »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Adam has clearly shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC idea work.  He has written, conversed, and added a ton of value to this space.  What have you done besides shit on his work and say that he is wasting his time.  Honestly if he isn't involved or has walked away, then that is a strong indication that we should leave as well.

As far as I care to see it, this could probably be Adam under a new account


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ah, exactly what would be the point of that? He has nothing


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Offline bitcoinba

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2014, 09:22:49 pm »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Adam has clearly shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC idea work.  He has written, conversed, and added a ton of value to this space.  What have you done besides shit on his work and say that he is wasting his time.  Honestly if he isn't involved or has walked away, then that is a strong indication that we should leave as well.

Who is this "we" that you speak of? I have read every one of Adam's posts, and although they contain some very interesting, informed and provocative ideas, I could not feel any less like leaving this community. In fact, the opposite, the complaining and fighting over the past few days has put a few areas and issues into better perspective for me personally, and now I want to contribute more actually as I have appreciated the responses from Invictus and their stance on these important matters.

People come and people go, it is the natural ebb and flow of life, especially in a new community surrounding a new experiment in a completely new industry.

Also, I really can not see the big value in third party DACs today. This shark tank concept and all of this fuss of AGS and PTS contribution from third parties and its potential value or non-value, just seems about as coherent as squabbling over property rights on the planet Mars. We can not even get there yet.

Is there a big risk in just focusing 100% on Invictus DACs for a given time? (like Fuznuts is also suggesting) Am I missing something?




bitbro

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DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2014, 09:26:39 pm »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Adam has clearly shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC idea work.  He has written, conversed, and added a ton of value to this space.  What have you done besides shit on his work and say that he is wasting his time.  Honestly if he isn't involved or has walked away, then that is a strong indication that we should leave as well.

Who is this "we" that you speak of? I have read every one of Adam's posts, and although they contain some very interesting, informed and provocative ideas, I could not feel any less like leaving this community. In fact, the opposite, the complaining and fighting over the past few days has put a few areas and issues into better perspective for me personally, and now I want to contribute more actually as I have appreciated the responses from Invictus and their stance on these important matters.

People come and people go, it is the natural ebb and flow of life, especially in a new community surrounding a new experiment in a completely new industry.

Also, I really can not see the big value in third party DACs today. This shark tank concept and all of this fuss of AGS and PTS contribution from third parties and its potential value or non-value, just seems about as coherent as squabbling over property rights on the planet Mars. We can not even get there yet.

Is there a big risk in just focusing 100% on Invictus DACs for a given time? (like Fuznuts is also suggesting) Am I missing something?

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Offline oco101

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Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2014, 09:37:27 pm »
Thank you, bitbro! Half the freaking postings around here are from this Adam guy, who clearly does not feel like it's a good fit for him. He complains that his time is 150% committed and he doesn't have time for anything, yet he comes back here again and again to waste the time of these developers, who keep patiently responding to his crud. Move on already. How many times do you keep calling a girl who clearly isn't into you?

Adam has clearly shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC idea work.  He has written, conversed, and added a ton of value to this space.  What have you done besides shit on his work and say that he is wasting his time.  Honestly if he isn't involved or has walked away, then that is a strong indication that we should leave as well.

Yes it is true he shown to be deeply committed and invested to making this whole DAC work true. He had many very good ideas too.
Unfortunately  lately he no longer wanted to be constructive. He was very aggressive and simply stopped having a conversation with the rest of the community it was he's way or the highway. You know respect goes both way too.
The rest of your post are just empty accusations nobody "shit on his work", on the contrary many supported he's ideas. Look for yourself you'll see ..

Offline G1ng3rBr34dM4n

Re: DACIndex.com now live
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2014, 10:49:37 pm »



Who is this "we" that you speak of? I have read every one of Adam's posts, and although they contain some very interesting, informed and provocative ideas, I could not feel any less like leaving this community. In fact, the opposite, the complaining and fighting over the past few days has put a few areas and issues into better perspective for me personally, and now I want to contribute more actually as I have appreciated the responses from Invictus and their stance on these important matters.



This.