Author Topic: MaidSafe IPO on Mastercoin  (Read 100527 times)

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Offline luckybit

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It seems like the Maidsafe people might be getting taken advantage of by the Mastercoin people.  Basically the whole recent run up in the mastercoin price is because people are essentially forced to buy MSC in order to get safecoins and then Maidsafe is going to be left holding the bag with a TON of these worthless MSC that the mastercoin people dumped on them at inflated prices.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577149.40

Various quotes below:

"Backers will receive 17,000 MaidSafeCoins per bitcoin
Backers will receive 3,400 MaidSafeCoins per mastercoin---from  http://buysafecoins.com

This means 1msc=0.2btc,how did they decide the exchange rate?
As I know, 1msc=0.08btc before this released, why don't they let the market decide the rate?
I think this is a way to let the msc big holders to sell them msc high."

"price manipulation 2.0, featuring the mastercoin foundation"

"This is about coning a small Scottish tech firm into generating funds for the final days of Mastercoin. Everyone involved should be ashamed. No doubt you're ecstatic... pathetic I hope Karma get's you all."

"Poor bastards worked for 8 years to feed a bunch of cunts by the look of it."

"I think it's probably David Irvine is simply a gullible liberal guy who simply hasn't got a clue what he's doing, or hasn't had the time to put much thought into it and taken the advice of the mastercoin team. The worrying thing isn't the fact he's manipulated the price of mastercoin by 400% it's the fact he's saying he has to buy between 20-70% of all mastercoins ever issued for this his IPO target (fuck u prophetx) to even be possible!"

Wow what a disaster

Actually David Irvine knows exactly what he's doing. I view this sort of post as anti Mastercoin propaganda and it's not good for the community as a whole to start talking about price manipulations and conspiracies.

Mastercoin does have it's problems but its problems are from the Bitcoin core developers and not from some sort of price fixing conspiracy.

Quote
Anyway I've managed to Dump all my 700 odd mastercoin at a big loss. Looks like David the director has been conned into paying $10m usd asset issuance by mastercoin foundation scum!(equiv $1 on counterparty hahaha). Shame would have loved to invest clever guy (in one way) and great project. Hard to believe someone so clever can be so stupid but check out the facts yourselves.


The guy who wrote it is anti Mastercoin. Talking about how he dumped it at a big loss and attacking the Mastercoin foundation.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 02:31:35 am by luckybit »
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Offline toast

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It seems like the Maidsafe people might be getting taken advantage of by the Mastercoin people.  Basically the whole recent run up in the mastercoin price is because people are essentially forced to buy MSC in order to get safecoins and then Maidsafe is going to be left holding the bag with a TON of these worthless MSC that the mastercoin people dumped on them at inflated prices.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577149.40

Various quotes below:

"Backers will receive 17,000 MaidSafeCoins per bitcoin
Backers will receive 3,400 MaidSafeCoins per mastercoin---from  http://buysafecoins.com

This means 1msc=0.2btc,how did they decide the exchange rate?
As I know, 1msc=0.08btc before this released, why don't they let the market decide the rate?
I think this is a way to let the msc big holders to sell them msc high."

"price manipulation 2.0, featuring the mastercoin foundation"

"This is about coning a small Scottish tech firm into generating funds for the final days of Mastercoin. Everyone involved should be ashamed. No doubt you're ecstatic... pathetic I hope Karma get's you all."

"Poor bastards worked for 8 years to feed a bunch of cunts by the look of it."

"I think it's probably David Irvine is simply a gullible liberal guy who simply hasn't got a clue what he's doing, or hasn't had the time to put much thought into it and taken the advice of the mastercoin team. The worrying thing isn't the fact he's manipulated the price of mastercoin by 400% it's the fact he's saying he has to buy between 20-70% of all mastercoins ever issued for this his IPO target (fuck u prophetx) to even be possible!"

Wow what a disaster
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Offline Agent86

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It seems like the Maidsafe people might be getting taken advantage of by the Mastercoin people.  Basically the whole recent run up in the mastercoin price is because people are essentially forced to buy MSC in order to get safecoins and then Maidsafe is going to be left holding the bag with a TON of these worthless MSC that the mastercoin people dumped on them at inflated prices.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577149.40

Various quotes below:

"Backers will receive 17,000 MaidSafeCoins per bitcoin
Backers will receive 3,400 MaidSafeCoins per mastercoin---from  http://buysafecoins.com

This means 1msc=0.2btc,how did they decide the exchange rate?
As I know, 1msc=0.08btc before this released, why don't they let the market decide the rate?
I think this is a way to let the msc big holders to sell them msc high."

"price manipulation 2.0, featuring the mastercoin foundation"

"This is about coning a small Scottish tech firm into generating funds for the final days of Mastercoin. Everyone involved should be ashamed. No doubt you're ecstatic... pathetic I hope Karma get's you all."

"Poor bastards worked for 8 years to feed a bunch of cunts by the look of it."

"I think it's probably David Irvine is simply a gullible liberal guy who simply hasn't got a clue what he's doing, or hasn't had the time to put much thought into it and taken the advice of the mastercoin team. The worrying thing isn't the fact he's manipulated the price of mastercoin by 400% it's the fact he's saying he has to buy between 20-70% of all mastercoins ever issued for this his IPO target (fuck u prophetx) to even be possible!"

Offline cass

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We talked with maidsafe today and will be using our Dns system and they will be consulting with us on the economics of their system. 

In the end the mastercoin ipo will be insignificant compared to our partnership potential. 

VERY nice!

 +5%

wow wow wow  +5%
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Offline jwiz168

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 I believe it is a lost. What can we do is to wait for another opportunity. There are so many possibilities when the DPOS designed blockchain comes out. Just think of it this way, bitshare does its own ecosystem. No piggy back design to bitcoin or any other cryto currencies for that matter. For sure a lot of business entities will adapt a decentralized manner of transactions. Less operating expenses, efficient products and services and most of all a reliable money making business model . :)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 11:41:43 am by jwiz168 »

Offline liondani

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Would'n  it be not better when bitshares was in place of mastercoin right now? If bitshares was ready sooner I bet MaidSafe would constribute their safecoin's via BitsharesX...
Hope we loose not more oportunities like this one...

Offline liondani

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Seems mastercoin is going up now because of this IPO from maidsafe taking place in 3 Days !!!
For 1 BTC they give 17.000 Safecoins and for 1 Mastecoin they give 3.400 Safecoins that means as long 1 Mastercoin is below 0.2 BTC it prefferable to buy with Mastercoin so everybody interrested to buy safecoins will buy first mastercoins (as long the price is under 0.2 BTC). And thats really  happening right now and mastercoin has increased its price from 0.08 btc to 0.13 btc until now... Hope bitshares makes something identical someday  ;)

http://www.buysafecoins.com/
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 02:04:46 am by liondani »

Offline marcelus

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My initial understanding was apparently wrong, but I think the incentives are wrong.   Their coin is not divisible, their network is likely vulnerable to Sybil attacks. 

But perhaps I am just biased by my own r&d in this space. 


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Guess we gotta wait and see. I don't know if their coins will have any value since they aren't revealing what exactly 1 Safecoin will buy. I assume when enough apps are developed it can have tremendous value so it has potential but I don't know.


https://github.com/maidsafe/Whitepapers/blob/master/Project-Safe.md

The apps also earn by mining coins as well as far as I can see. I see nowhere where people need to spend these coins to access services. I'd love if somebody enlightened me.

Offline luckybit

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My initial understanding was apparently wrong, but I think the incentives are wrong.   Their coin is not divisible, their network is likely vulnerable to Sybil attacks. 

But perhaps I am just biased by my own r&d in this space. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guess we gotta wait and see. I don't know if their coins will have any value since they aren't revealing what exactly 1 Safecoin will buy. I assume when enough apps are developed it can have tremendous value so it has potential but I don't know.


https://github.com/maidsafe/Whitepapers/blob/master/Project-Safe.md
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Offline luckybit

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We talked with maidsafe today and will be using our Dns system and they will be consulting with us on the economics of their system. 

In the end the mastercoin ipo will be insignificant compared to our partnership potential. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I figured they would have figured out the economics by now if they're launching an IPO later this month. What are your thoughts on their token-based system vs a system that just uses Bitcoin for escrow? We've thought about the economics of a token-based system for something like MaidSafe/Bitcloud a lot at Bitcloud, but it seems that tokens really complicate things. Here are a few issues:

1) Most people in this space would rather use bitcoins than convert to a new token.
2) A token basically averages out the quality of the storage nodes on the network, so you have low quality nodes and high quality nodes getting paid the same rate. This leads to average quality storage and hosting.
3) Legal implications of profiting off a system that will undoubtedly be used for illegal purposes.
4) How can you increase the value of a token without also having the services paid for with that token become more expensive (for example storage)?

I wouldn't rather use Bitcoin. What if the Bitcoin price goes way up after I send it?

It's better to use a credit token divorced from Bitcoin. It's only credit tokens, not going to be a functional currency which works outside of MaidSafe as far as I know.

So if I were going to buy an Amazon gift card or gift token I would rather buy it with cash than with Bitcoin. A fiat exchange for this would make the most sense. The only reason to use Bitcoins is if there is no fiat exchange or else you risk losing money through volatility.
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3) Legal implications of profiting off a system that will undoubtedly be used for illegal purposes.
The legal implications, what legal implications? If it's used for illegal purposes then an internal mechanism based enforced by the source code is the law. You cannot police information. It's debatable whether or not information should be policed in the first place.

But you can decide not to promote or share certain information. I'm assuming you're worried about the risk to intellectual property, copyright infringement. If you believe in intellectual property then pay a bit extra to have code developed to isolate that information using a distributed process. Pay the network participants to enforce your intellectual property rights in some way and then that information would be censored, but the use of legal threats to protect your business model is an unfair advantage that no other business model has.
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4) How can you increase the value of a token without also having the services paid for with that token become more expensive (for example storage)?
Whether or not the value of the token increases, I'm actually skeptical about that part too and that probably isn't the goal anyway if it's just credit. You pre-order the tokens and if you have a lot of tokens you can get a lot of service. You don't necessarily have to increase the value.

If you want a world with a decentralized drop box then you're going to have to regulate in a different way if you're a regulator, profit in a different way if you're dropbox (or in a business which profits exclusively from intellectual property), and of course I'm all for building regulation protocols into the network itself.

However in order for something to be censored the nework of users have to decide it should be censored and not some external entity trying to enforce it's will on thousands if not millions of users. So of course if you want some information taken down or censored and you'll pay people a fee for them to remove it then it should be removed. But by making the censorship organization pay the fee it would make censorship far more rare and not as simple as making a phone call or sending a threatening letter.

Let's be fair, if you're the average person you don't have the ability to get sites to take down information about you. You can't protect yourself from the Internet and if your business is failing you cannot call your lawyer, your politician and your police to crush the competitor.
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Offline marcelus

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4) How can you increase the value of a token without also having the services paid for with that token become more expensive (for example storage)?

Does Maidsafe even require its token to access its services? I can't see where it does.

Offline cass

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Also don't forget that in theory it is very easy to do a MSC -> ME migration...

BTW what is the status of ME?
I can't see the thread anymore!

think you should look on this sub board

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=49.0

correct my if i'm wrong - hoe this helps

c
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Offline ElMato

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Also don't forget that in theory it is very easy to do a MSC -> ME migration...

BTW what is the status of ME?
I can't see the thread anymore!

Offline etherbroker

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4) How can you increase the value of a token without also having the services paid for with that token become more expensive (for example storage)?
Yeah they seem to not provide any explanation on why their coin will have any value. They basically have no business model.

I don't see why one should give them BTC or run a node to have a worthless coin.

I see you there bringing up fundamentals in relation to crypto-equities..

big mistake, don't ever bring up fundamentals

jk :)

Offline BldSwtTrs

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4) How can you increase the value of a token without also having the services paid for with that token become more expensive (for example storage)?
Yeah they seem to not provide any explanation on why their coin will have any value. They basically have no business model.

I don't see why one should give them BTC or run a node to have a worthless coin.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 11:53:37 pm by BldSwtTrs »