MaidSafe IPO on Mastercoin

[liondani]

Sorry fixed that...

[bytemaster]

You took my quote out of context when you cross posted.  Please point out my original question regarding how we know for sure. 

I am against policing the chain in general, but the suggestion of sending the funds back to a proven thief is the only thing I was Objecting to. 

If the case is ambiguous then you might as well keep the funds as the thief will launder it some other way. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[liondani]

Sending them back to the thief?   That makes no sense.   They should either be sent to the bankruptcy court, destroyed as dividends to bitcoin holders, or used for development of maidsafe... the only thing that must not happen is the issuance of Safecoin to the thief.

ANSWER from bitcointalk https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579797.340

I think maidsafe could sent the "stolen coin" to mtgox.
Then give market more ipo.

As Dan Larimer (founder of Bitshares) answered to suggestion's like that:

"Sending them back to the thief?   That makes no sense.   They should either be sent to the bankruptcy court, destroyed as dividends to bitcoin holders, or used for development of maidsafe... the only thing that must not happen is the issuance of Safecoin to the thief."


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4090.135

Yes , this is good idea.

No it's not, it's by far the stupidest idea yet.

What if one of those intermediary addresses between the "stolen mtgox coins" address and the MaidSafe address is an exchange? The thief dumps some coins on an exchange, and some innocent third party withdraws coins later on and "invests" in ScamSafeMaidSafe. Now MaidSafe hold the coins hostage (not that anyone investing has a signed GPG contract with some indication as to what remedies are available or what arbitration could be accepted) and the poor innocent person is screwed out of their money.

Which is why you should NOT play Bitcoin Police, not even if you believe you have "direct evidence" of someone directly spending coins they have stolen.

[luckybit]

Someone found the stolen MTGOX BTC went to the Maidsafe IPO address (quote from bitcointalk):

Hm, nice investigation. But who would send funds with open comments like that? Anyway, the 64 000 is a lot, but considering that a guy just paid 10 000 BTC for two pizzas a few years ago, it´s possible that an early adopter/miner has such a big stake.

Or those are the guys that stole the bitcoins from MtGox, as they also have to make "legal" bitcoins out of it somehow.

No, I just confirmed it. This are Mtgox's Bitcoins

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E?offset=400&filter=0 - MaidSafe
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KzHa54Qt7V75VmEsSjP2MddPxb7Mwr1fc
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Hi2bwsu3W3h7UDrbNUuxRG4x4s4HxtWo7
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1BH8FS6Yd9WvPZ1LDDWNpqXdzX8Q3freL9
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KGA7TLtUwjZuM5fyyYwGXfviPJdVCc8rY
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1TCEZsNRhcmx4jBtZr7jt1yM59dJXZKoe - 64,000 BTC
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Drt3c8pSdrkyjuBiwVcSSixZwQtMZ3Tew - Mtgox

I am thinking what should we do if some MTGOX BTC come to AGS.

We should alert MaidSafe then.

If these coins are stolen they should not be used, they should be sent back to the address that sent it.

Sending them back to the thief?   That makes no sense.   They should either be sent to the bankruptcy court, destroyed as dividends to bitcoin holders, or used for development of maidsafe... the only thing that must not happen is the issuance of Safecoin to the thief.

Because it could endanger the crowd sale, and could actually be a sort of trap. But you could be right.

Destroying them would be as if MaidSafe stole them from the thief, and while it's not immoral to do this it's probably controversial.

One thing we both agree on for certain, the thief should not get any Safecoins. And you've convinced me that the thief should also not get their Bitcoins back unless the owner of that address is willing to identify themselves.

[superresistant]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/breaking-mt-gox-maidsafe-gox-coins-flowing-maidsafe-ipo/2014/04/24
Hope maidsafe is not involved on that!

 

[liondani]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/breaking-mt-gox-maidsafe-gox-coins-flowing-maidsafe-ipo/2014/04/24

Hope maidsafe is not involved on that!

[bytemaster]

Someone found the stolen MTGOX BTC went to the Maidsafe IPO address (quote from bitcointalk):

Hm, nice investigation. But who would send funds with open comments like that? Anyway, the 64 000 is a lot, but considering that a guy just paid 10 000 BTC for two pizzas a few years ago, it´s possible that an early adopter/miner has such a big stake.

Or those are the guys that stole the bitcoins from MtGox, as they also have to make "legal" bitcoins out of it somehow.

No, I just confirmed it. This are Mtgox's Bitcoins

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E?offset=400&filter=0 - MaidSafe
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KzHa54Qt7V75VmEsSjP2MddPxb7Mwr1fc
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Hi2bwsu3W3h7UDrbNUuxRG4x4s4HxtWo7
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1BH8FS6Yd9WvPZ1LDDWNpqXdzX8Q3freL9
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KGA7TLtUwjZuM5fyyYwGXfviPJdVCc8rY
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1TCEZsNRhcmx4jBtZr7jt1yM59dJXZKoe - 64,000 BTC
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Drt3c8pSdrkyjuBiwVcSSixZwQtMZ3Tew - Mtgox

I am thinking what should we do if some MTGOX BTC come to AGS.

We should alert MaidSafe then.

If these coins are stolen they should not be used, they should be sent back to the address that sent it.

Sending them back to the thief?   That makes no sense.   They should either be sent to the bankruptcy court, destroyed as dividends to bitcoin holders, or used for development of maidsafe... the only thing that must not happen is the issuance of Safecoin to the thief.

[luckybit]

Someone found the stolen MTGOX BTC went to the Maidsafe IPO address (quote from bitcointalk):

Hm, nice investigation. But who would send funds with open comments like that? Anyway, the 64 000 is a lot, but considering that a guy just paid 10 000 BTC for two pizzas a few years ago, it´s possible that an early adopter/miner has such a big stake.

Or those are the guys that stole the bitcoins from MtGox, as they also have to make "legal" bitcoins out of it somehow.

No, I just confirmed it. This are Mtgox's Bitcoins

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E?offset=400&filter=0 - MaidSafe
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KzHa54Qt7V75VmEsSjP2MddPxb7Mwr1fc
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Hi2bwsu3W3h7UDrbNUuxRG4x4s4HxtWo7
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1BH8FS6Yd9WvPZ1LDDWNpqXdzX8Q3freL9
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KGA7TLtUwjZuM5fyyYwGXfviPJdVCc8rY
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1TCEZsNRhcmx4jBtZr7jt1yM59dJXZKoe - 64,000 BTC
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Drt3c8pSdrkyjuBiwVcSSixZwQtMZ3Tew - Mtgox

I am thinking what should we do if some MTGOX BTC come to AGS.

We should alert MaidSafe then.

If these coins are stolen they should not be used, they should be sent back to the address that sent it.

[bytemaster]

How certain are we that this is GOX BTC?

If we knew with 100% certainty.... I think it would be very hard to divide it up among gox creditors... I would probably scrub it from the genesis block and reallocate the AGS to some noble purpose.

[Amazon]

Someone found the stolen MTGOX BTC went to the Maidsafe IPO address (quote from bitcointalk):

Hm, nice investigation. But who would send funds with open comments like that? Anyway, the 64 000 is a lot, but considering that a guy just paid 10 000 BTC for two pizzas a few years ago, it´s possible that an early adopter/miner has such a big stake.

Or those are the guys that stole the bitcoins from MtGox, as they also have to make "legal" bitcoins out of it somehow.

No, I just confirmed it. This are Mtgox's Bitcoins

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E?offset=400&filter=0 - MaidSafe
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KzHa54Qt7V75VmEsSjP2MddPxb7Mwr1fc
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Hi2bwsu3W3h7UDrbNUuxRG4x4s4HxtWo7
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1BH8FS6Yd9WvPZ1LDDWNpqXdzX8Q3freL9
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1KGA7TLtUwjZuM5fyyYwGXfviPJdVCc8rY
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1TCEZsNRhcmx4jBtZr7jt1yM59dJXZKoe - 64,000 BTC
https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Drt3c8pSdrkyjuBiwVcSSixZwQtMZ3Tew - Mtgox

I am thinking what should we do if some MTGOX BTC come to AGS.

[davidpbrown]

One thing I don't like though is what bytemaster said about the coin not being divisible.

I wonder that MaidSafeCoin is an intermediary step, rather than the final coin.

from http://www.safecoin.io/

MaidSafeCoins will be swapped for safecoins at a 1:1 ratio

So, those safecoins could be divisible in the usual way.

[luckybit]

the lead developer briefly says that the tokens could be used to pay for extra storage space.

 

Now it makes sense !!!
It is free for everybody for a specific storage lets say 5 GB (dropbox dies after that)
And for extra storage there is a fee payable in safecoins !!!

The purpose here is to make storage free for everyone. Unlimited storage space for all.

But how do we get there? The economic incentives have to take us there. Will it? I think it's highly likely but what if it results in centralization all over again and nothing changes?

Google and Amazon would become the lead farmers, end up with the majority of the Safecoins, and now what? It's a good idea in principle of course and it's a lot more decentralized than what we have now if the code works as intended.

But there is room for improvement. I think we should try to pass suggestions to Dr. Irvine to make these improvements. MaidSafe is incredibly important technology.

[liondani]

the lead developer briefly says that the tokens could be used to pay for extra storage space.

 

Now it makes sense !!!
It is free for everybody for a specific storage lets say 5 GB (dropbox dies after that)
And for extra storage there is a fee payable in safecoins !!!

[luckybit]

Surly the demand comes from people wanting to use more computer power than they have, and that supply is met by thous with extra computer power selling there spare capacity. The medium of exchange is safecoin?

To my mind its impossible to know if they have a good economic model until we see what people do with the system, will people demand more power than they have (price goes up) or will there be more power than people demand (price goes down).

What could be done with all that processing power? unimaginably virtual worlds? Extremely cheap laptops where you pay purely for what processing power bandwidth you use.

What a great time it is to be alive and see all this unfold and evolve

If they implement bytemaster's advice:
3) charge* users any time they consume more than they produce

* I think it's obvious they must charge safecoins...

how else would it work if you didn't charge users for using resources? If they didn't put that in the white paper it must have been a case of not needing to state the obvious?.... i hope!

The idea of having a token cryptocurrency attached to the system is a fairly recent one, which is why it's not very fleshed out at the moment and not in the whitepaper. In the hangout they did introducing the idea of having a Maidsafe token, the lead developer briefly says that the tokens could be used to pay for extra storage space.

So I guess the first use case will be for users who would like extra storage space, users like myself who currently pay ~2$ a month for Google Drive. We'll see once they actually launch their product.

One thing I don't like though is what bytemaster said about the coin not being divisible. This is not good for transactions, as an appreciation in the coin value would probably have to be taken into account by scaling the service offered rather than the price for the service, which seems a bit more complicated but not impossible. At time t1 you get 10gb/1year for 1 Safecoin, at a later time t2 you'll get 20gb/year for 1 Safecoin as their value somehow doubled, instead of now paying 0.5 Safecoins for the same service. Does that make sense? Maybe having so many coins this will never really be a problem, and 1 Safecoin will never be worth enough for something to cost less than 1..

 

[liondani]

Surly the demand comes from people wanting to use more computer power than they have, and that supply is met by thous with extra computer power selling there spare capacity. The medium of exchange is safecoin?

To my mind its impossible to know if they have a good economic model until we see what people do with the system, will people demand more power than they have (price goes up) or will there be more power than people demand (price goes down).

What could be done with all that processing power? unimaginably virtual worlds? Extremely cheap laptops where you pay purely for what processing power bandwidth you use.

What a great time it is to be alive and see all this unfold and evolve

If they implement bytemaster's advice:
3) charge* users any time they consume more than they produce

* I think it's obvious they must charge safecoins...

how else would it work if you didn't charge users for using resources? If they didn't put that in the white paper it must have been a case of not needing to state the obvious?.... i hope!

The idea of having a token cryptocurrency attached to the system is a fairly recent one, which is why it's not very fleshed out at the moment and not in the whitepaper. In the hangout they did introducing the idea of having a Maidsafe token, the lead developer briefly says that the tokens could be used to pay for extra storage space.

So I guess the first use case will be for users who would like extra storage space, users like myself who currently pay ~2$ a month for Google Drive. We'll see once they actually launch their product.

One thing I don't like though is what bytemaster said about the coin not being divisible. This is not good for transactions, as an appreciation in the coin value would probably have to be taken into account by scaling the service offered rather than the price for the service, which seems a bit more complicated but not impossible. At time t1 you get 10gb/1year for 1 Safecoin, at a later time t2 you'll get 20gb/year for 1 Safecoin as their value somehow doubled, instead of now paying 0.5 Safecoins for the same service. Does that make sense? Maybe having so many coins this will never really be a problem, and 1 Safecoin will never be worth enough for something to cost less than 1..

Take that from bitcointalk forum from member FrictionlessCoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579797.220

"Safecoins are proxies for Proof of Resources.  So essentially, if you need 120GB then you use SafeCoins to acquire that storage space on the cloud.   

Yes, processing power and storage costs do go to zero,  but we always need more of it.   Look at Bitcoin ASIC hardware, they also go to zero at a pace much faster than processing power or storage,   but we always need more of it.   The point is though,  Safecoin doesn't come for free.  You have to spend something to acquire it.   Bitcoin burns energy by running a useless calculation,  so does every other alt-coin out there.  SafeCoin by contrast, does create something of utility,  that is, it create storage.    The other thing is that, SafeCoin is one of the few coins that provides incentives for running an active node.   Bitcoin by contrast only provides incentive for running a miner.

The point I want to make as to why Safecoin has a unique proposition as compared to alt-coins it is likely the only coin out there that creates something of value as a consequence of 'mining'.   

As to the price,  well.... its pure speculation."