Please explain February budget payouts of over $460,000.... [Explained]

[CWEvans]

We also broke ground with several developers and investors that could infuse orders of magnitude more wealth into this community.

heh... I wonder who saw that coming?   

[cass]

Since some people here are equating Dan to Steve Jobs and I3 to Apple, I am going to ask:

Do you think Steve Jobs would've shown up to the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977 without a finished Apple II computer just to network and spend* the company's secured finances?

From my understanding, they have cut back on conferences to focus more on development. But Dan has said in other posts that the connections they have made at conferences, such as those with the marketing and music folks, have more than paid for the cost of these.

Precisely right.

We have recorded over six hours of Dan speaking to two audiences and so many reporters I lost count.

We also broke ground with several developers and investors that could infuse orders of magnitude more wealth into this community.

It's funny, the major beef in December was that we were too cheap to have a presence at the conferences.

 

  sounds like a great buzz

[Stan]

Since some people here are equating Dan to Steve Jobs and I3 to Apple, I am going to ask:

Do you think Steve Jobs would've shown up to the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977 without a finished Apple II computer just to network and spend* the company's secured finances?

From my understanding, they have cut back on conferences to focus more on development. But Dan has said in other posts that the connections they have made at conferences, such as those with the marketing and music folks, have more than paid for the cost of these.

Precisely right.

We have recorded over six hours of Dan speaking to two audiences and so many reporters I lost count.

We also broke ground with several developers and investors that could infuse orders of magnitude more wealth into this community.

It's funny, the major beef in December was that we were too cheap to have a presence at the conferences.

 

[JA]

Since some people here are equating Dan to Steve Jobs and I3 to Apple, I am going to ask:

Do you think Steve Jobs would've shown up to the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977 without a finished Apple II computer just to network and spend* the company's secured finances?

If he was sitting on this kind of cash, sure he would have.

And anyway what the most people dont know is that Steve Jobs wasn't the best CEO (at least in the early days)

[progmac]

Since some people here are equating Dan to Steve Jobs and I3 to Apple, I am going to ask:

Do you think Steve Jobs would've shown up to the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977 without a finished Apple II computer just to network and spend* the company's secured finances?

If he was sitting on this kind of cash, sure he would have.

[Stan]

I can assure you we did not spend 450 k since launch.   In cab now but will address questions when I get a chance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fair enough.

Those numbers are based upon the day they were logged. 20,000 Bitshars-PTS and 200 BTC on that day was worth ~$460k. What I am wondering is why so much? If you go to accounting and say "we need X amount of dollars", it would equate to X amount of BTC and PTS. Or if your accounts are lagging, you would say, "we owe X amount of dollars" and then you receive X amount of coins to pay the debts.

Both were moved to lower level wallets/sheets..  There we document most March expenses and show the value on the days actually spent.

Some has since been converted to USD as a volatility hedge but continues to show in the multi currency total.

[NewMine]

interested in more concrete breakdown here as well

2/21/2014   Marketing Budget (Internal)   10000   PTS      Invictus
2/21/2014   Operations Budget (Internal)   10000   PTS      Invictus

These are documented on separate public spreadsheets that Dan delegated to marketiing and operations. The 20k PTS was merely moved, not spent.

Links to these sub spreadsheets are found in a column to the right of these two rows on both the PTS and BTC master spreadsheets.

These are reviewed continously by an external accounting firm - Bitcountant.

Thanks!

[Stan]

interested in more concrete breakdown here as well

2/21/2014   Marketing Budget (Internal)   10000   PTS      Invictus
2/21/2014   Operations Budget (Internal)   10000   PTS      Invictus

These are documented on separate public spreadsheets that Dan delegated to marketiing and operations. The 20k PTS was merely moved, not spent.

Links to these sub spreadsheets are found in a column to the right of these two rows on both the PTS and BTC master spreadsheets.

These are reviewed continously by an external accounting firm - Bitcountant.

[NewMine]

I can assure you we did not spend 450 k since launch.   In cab now but will address questions when I get a chance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fair enough.

Those numbers are based upon the day they were logged. 20,000 Bitshars-PTS and 200 BTC on that day was worth ~$460k. What I am wondering is why so much? If you go to accounting and say "we need X amount of dollars", it would equate to X amount of BTC and PTS. Or if your accounts are lagging, you would say, "we owe X amount of dollars" and then you receive X amount of coins to pay the debts.

[donkeypong]

Since some people here are equating Dan to Steve Jobs and I3 to Apple, I am going to ask:

Do you think Steve Jobs would've shown up to the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977 without a finished Apple II computer just to network and spend* the company's secured finances?

From my understanding, they have cut back on conferences to focus more on development. But Dan has said in other posts that the connections they have made at conferences, such as those with the marketing and music folks, have more than paid for the cost of these.

[santaclause102]

Conferences are important! Network effects and networking effects are essential!
Clarification seems necessary on what the OP asked! But give Dan and the team time to come back from the conference.

Conferences are very important. But if they hinder development of the product for which is the reason to attend the conference, it is not important. You are putting the carriage before the horse.

We agree that it is a trade off. Visiting every single conference with the whole team would sure be a negative trade off. But one should not be too quick to say the trade off for this conference (and there was never anything stated about what future conf. are visited) is negative if the details for the pro and the con sides are not known (we mostly have an outsider perspective). We have far far less an outsider perspective than other investors in start-up have because of this forum...
For me visiting this conference is very very much worth it! See https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4059.msg50857#msg50857 for a perspective...

[santaclause102]

Since some people here are equating Dan to Steve Jobs and I3 to Apple, I am going to ask:

Do you think Steve Jobs would've shown up to the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977 without a finished Apple II computer just to network and spend* the company's secured finances?

Every situation is different. If you would base your business decisions mostly on historic analogies you would not be very effective Analogies can help illustrate something that is provably true anyway but not prove something by itself... 

[bytemaster]

I can assure you we did not spend 450 k since launch.   In cab now but will address questions when I get a chance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NewMine]

Since some people here are equating Dan to Steve Jobs and I3 to Apple, I am going to ask:

Do you think Steve Jobs would've shown up to the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977 without a finished Apple II computer just to network and spend* the company's secured finances?

[NewMine]

Conferences are important! Network effects and networking effects are essential!
Clarification seems necessary on what the OP asked! But give Dan and the team time to come back from the conference.

Conferences are very important. But if they hinder development of the product for which is the reason to attend the conference, it is not important. You are putting the carriage before the horse.

[santaclause102]

Conferences are important! Network effects and networking effects are essential!
Clarification seems necessary on what the OP asked! But give Dan and the team time to come back from the conference. 

[liondani]

thanks for bringing this up.
until there is a product, i don't think people will be very sympathetic

  I suspect a year from now when several I3 products have launched, we'll look back and see 460k insignificant. Else, there maybe a metric fuq ton of discontent.

Lets continue to support I3 in every possible way, trust but verify.... 

hope you are right.
The most of us have proof our trust by making investments...and by keeping them...
Hope we will see the products (DACs)  sooner than our competition...

[NewMine]

Was for me a big question too... (how you "predicted" Bitshares-PTS highs?)

Not sure I get your meaning?

Here is a price chart history https://coinplorer.com/Charts/PTS/USD

The date of the 20,000 PTS payout corresponds to the recent highs.

Another thing that would help clarify things is if we knew if these transactions are for past invoiced accounts or for future expenses.

the question was for Dan, have not cleared that out? 

ok

[liondani]

Was for me a big question too... (how you "predicted" Bitshares-PTS highs?)

Not sure I get your meaning?

Here is a price chart history https://coinplorer.com/Charts/PTS/USD

The date of the 20,000 PTS payout corresponds to the recent highs.

Another thing that would help clarify things is if we knew if these transactions are for past invoiced accounts or for future expenses.

the question was for Dan, have I not cleared that out? 

[NewMine]

It's pointless. They don't want to reveal specifics or detail their budget plans. Their most important strategic plan (the allocation of resources) remains obscured and centralized, and thus not open to critique. It's pointless to discuss a log of things already long gone.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2520.msg31546#msg31546

I3 should be aware that even if people become silent on these points, that does not imply agreement, as people likely just feel that speaking up is pointless. And support from people who have been "in the industry of 30 years" is worthless, as I3 should be trying to do something new here, and apply their own principles to themselves.

In your link it states that Bytemaster said 10% would be allocated to marketing. In relation to other expenses, it seems to be closer to 50% of what has been paid out so far. With that kind of money going to marketing, I have to ask what exactly is being done? I think the Bitcoin conferences that interfere with the release schedule of BTS-X must be tapping into this huge allocation of money. Probably not the most efficient way of marketing. Debating over who's idea is better with nothing but conceptualized thought experiments and code that has never been implemented, all for the benefit of an audience who is already well versed in what BTS is theorized to be is not worth the time lost that should've been going to actual development to the already late release.

2014-04-11
Bitcoin Expo 2014
Toronto, ON, Canada
2014-04-23
Bitcoin Conference Russia
Moscow, Russia
2014-05-10
Global Bitcoin Summit 2014
Beijing, China
2014-05-15
Bitcoin Foundation Bitcoin 2014
Amsterdam, Netherlands
2014-05-31
Central Europe Bitcoin Expo
Vienna, Austria
2014-06-20
Bitcoin in the Beltway
Washington, DC, United States
2014-06-24
Inside Bitcoins Conference & Expo
Hong Kong, China
2014-07-09
Inside Bitcoins Conference & Expo
Melbourne, Australia
2014-08-25
Camp Bitcoin
Black Rock City, NV, United States
2014-09-01
World Bitcoin Forum 2014
Bonn, Germany
2014-09-15
Inside Bitcoins London
London, England
2014-11-02
Bitcoin World at Money2020
Las Vegas, NV, United States

That is the list of upcoming conferences for the rest of the year.

You have 2 more this month, 3 next month, 2 the following yada yada yada.....

Are we going to have to watch and wait while you(I3) piss through the huge pile of money and waste time at these upcoming conferences before we get BTS-X?

All I am looking for is results. If I don't see results, then you(I3) will have to deal with my questions. Whether you answer them or not is up to you, but I will not sit back and let my concerns go unnoticed.

[NewMine]

Was for me a big question too... (how you "predicted" Bitshares-PTS highs?)

Not sure I get your meaning?

Here is a price chart history https://coinplorer.com/Charts/PTS/USD

The date of the 20,000 PTS payout corresponds to the recent highs.

Another thing that would help clarify things is if we knew if these transactions are for past invoiced accounts or for future expenses.

[unimercio]

thanks for bringing this up.
until there is a product, i don't think people will be very sympathetic

  I suspect a year from now when several I3 products have launched, we'll look back and see 460k insignificant. Else, there maybe a metric fuq ton of discontent.

Lets continue to support I3 in every possible way, trust but verify.... 

[progmac]

thanks for bringing this up.
until there is a product, i don't think people will be very sympathetic

[xeroc]

I3 should be aware that even if people become silent on these points, that does not imply agreement, as people likely just feel that speaking up is pointless. And support from people who have been "in the industry of 30 years" is worthless, as I3 should be trying to do something new here, and apply their own principles to themselves.

[CLains]

It's pointless. They don't want to reveal specifics or detail their budget plans. Their most important strategic plan (the allocation of resources) remains obscured and centralized, and thus not open to critique. It's pointless to discuss a log of things already long gone.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2520.msg31546#msg31546

I3 should be aware that even if people become silent on these points, that does not imply agreement, as people likely just feel that speaking up is pointless. And support from people who have been "in the industry of 30 years" is worthless, as I3 should be trying to do something new here, and apply their own principles to themselves.

[liondani]

Was for me a big question too... (how you "predicted" Bitshares-PTS highs?)

links for newmine to investigate in case they don't found them...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqTwk-e7yzJydG1USVlZS2U3Q1F4RTJrM19TQXFTWHc&usp=sharing#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtRmp4NraeAydElLdUpwSERlY3luVkZNZnoxRm5md3c&usp=sharing#gid=0

[toast]

interested in more concrete breakdown here as well

2/21/2014   Marketing Budget (Internal)   10000   PTS      Invictus
2/21/2014   Operations Budget (Internal)   10000   PTS      Invictus

[NewMine]

Transparency is everything, especially for Something trying become the trail blazer into the Decentralized Autonomous world.

I am trying to understand why 200 BTC followed by 20,000 PTS were dished out for the budget when PTS price was at February highs of +$17 and then March budget payout was a measly 100 BTC. At the time, February's market value for these payouts was over $460,000 and March's was only $65,000.  I get that you guys should get paid, but this is a huge discrepancy. 

Following the day of the PTS payout, the price declined never to reach the recent highs again. If these PTS were sold off, there may have been a conflict of interest. Since your in control the privatekey for the holding address, divvying employee shares of PTS so they get their BTS shares would not make sense. You would simply pay them what PTS they are owed along with the corresponding amount of BTS after you release the chain.

The $460k is a lot of money along with all the bounties that are being paid to non Invictus team members for what little Marketing I have seen and no BTS-X.

The discrepancies in amounts from month to month, the timing of the huge PTS payout, the lack of accounting since the "ides of March" have me concerned. I hope you can explain this to me.