Author Topic: A bit of a change . . .  (Read 2017 times)

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Offline xeroc

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2014, 02:35:29 pm »
Lets just remembers what happening here - I invited the Beyond Bitcoin show onto the LTB platform, and this is the response I get :)
i am grateful for that offer!!
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2014, 02:42:33 pm »
Lets just remembers what happening here - I invited the Beyond Bitcoin show onto the LTB platform, and this is the response I get :)
i am grateful for that offer!!
Agree! Especially for the friendly undertone :)
The goal is not to support any side here. The goal is to figure out why that negativity came up in the first place and get together again.

Offline xeroc

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2014, 02:44:48 pm »
Lets just remembers what happening here - I invited the Beyond Bitcoin show onto the LTB platform, and this is the response I get :)
i am grateful for that offer!!
Agree! Especially for the friendly undertone :)
The goal is not to support any side here. The goal is to figure out why that negativity came up in the first place and get together again.
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2014, 03:05:01 pm »
 It's the ecosystem that develops when you have the core of the project in an indefensible position (Bitshares has not performed to development spec or internal expectations), after the dissenters realized their voices were not being heard, left.

 What's left is a defensive guard that's stuck whether for ideological (don't understand the mechanics but like the words used to describe them and the idea it'll make them rich) or mechanical (All-in AGS investors who have 100% tied their investments financial future to whether Invictus delivers something worthwhile... or not)

I'm hoping when Invictus delivers there will be a rush of rational investors, but again that requires them to deliver.
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Offline fuzzy

Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2014, 03:50:05 pm »
lol.   Did you really say i'm a "businessman"?  You guys are hilarious.   

Whatever you need to say to make yourselves feel better!
How do u put food on the table adam?..my point is that people have to make a living and you have to pay for travel expenses...etc.  Do you not make money off of LTB? Im actually ignorant on this...

Id love to have a better understanding of all this but it seems I was left out of discussions so perhaps I am incorrect on my assessment.  If so please tell me why.
As for the entire situation. I am no longer flustered...a misunderstanding between myself and legend asking me for the email and attached accounts needed to be resolved and the seeming secrecy (at the time) between the rollout of these requests and the jetison to LTB (again with little time to digest it all) caused a bit of confusion regarding intentions.  It is over now as far as im concerned adam...and I hope u understand I never feel u deserve too much shit ;)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 04:02:19 pm by fuznuts »
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2014, 04:31:25 pm »
lol.   Did you really say i'm a "businessman"?  You guys are hilarious.   

Whatever you need to say to make yourselves feel better!
How do u put food on the table adam?..my point is that people have to make a living.

Id love to have a better understanding but it seems I was left out of discussions so perhaps I am incorrect on my assessment.  If so please tell me why.


I've been living a monkish life for the last two years. I view LTB as a long term project and both don't want to take outside investors and have not sought to profit from it in the short term since I have a long term vision to achieve.  I'm well on my way to that but it's why the charge I sometimes get of "only talking to people who sponsor" is so funny - If that was true, there wouldn't have been more than 10 interviews the whole time :)    I built things in this way exactly because I'm not a businessman but instead am an evangelist for decentralization who has built a platform to empower everybody, and am proving the model so others can follow in our wake.

All the funds that've been earned through my work on LTB have been re-invested into this and other projects building platforms to empower people to do whatever they want if people want to validate them.  Between the web portal, deployable blog/store/Q&A system, and first generation iOS app we've put 30BTC into continuing to build the platform.   I do LTB because I think it's important to have the conversation and I've decided to leverage my success to help others achieve their own. 

It's insulting that you haven't taken this away from my body of work, or the people I choose to share the platform with.   It's insulting you need me to explain this to you.

Fuz, do you not remember that I not only suggested you do the community show, I suggested the name and invited you to my platform?   You said no.     I didn't exclude you, I just talked with Legend also when I listened to his work and thought it was worth highlighting.  I don't care who you are, I care about the quality of your work.   

Although if we're being frank, I did mention to him that your questioning of daniel on the recent episode came off as apologetic and sycophantic (not sure if that was my exact word) and that I thought the content Legend had created was more interesting because it was more challenging.  He's free to share the emails we exchanged, I think you'll find that I'm quite supportive of everyone and just as I offered that support to you so do I offer it to pretty much all people who I feel like would do good work with a bigger platform.   

All decisions made about the show at 100% his own, I didn't even suggest splitting up the show.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 04:37:09 pm by AdamBLevine »
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2014, 04:45:19 pm »
I think you both need to stop discussing the issue on a level where on doubts the other one's intentions and/or skills.... That makes it a personal issue not a professional, content related issue that would be relevant for others...

Offline gamey

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2014, 06:04:06 pm »
It's the ecosystem that develops when you have the core of the project in an indefensible position (Bitshares has not performed to development spec or internal expectations), after the dissenters realized their voices were not being heard, left.

 What's left is a defensive guard that's stuck whether for ideological (don't understand the mechanics but like the words used to describe them and the idea it'll make them rich) or mechanical (All-in AGS investors who have 100% tied their investments financial future to whether Invictus delivers something worthwhile... or not)

I'm hoping when Invictus delivers there will be a rush of rational investors, but again that requires them to deliver.

Your whole problem is your assumption in motivations.  My motivations do not align 100% with that of Bitshares.  There are other motivations going on here that are not readily quantified.  You, ABL, being the pompous person you are, assume you know what motivates everyone.  You simply don't.  You do not know what motivates me.  You seem to think your invitation should have everyone jump all over it.

So what you do is blame it all on Bitshares, because you don't want to confront the fact that I personally don't particularly like you or want to get involved in a media project under your umbrella organization.   I probably should have worded it different originally, but I troll the trolls and you took the bait.  My apologize for starting out the negativity and sending it down this path. W

I have not put enough into Bitshares to spend that much of my life in it.  Yet you've been making this claim that all my decisions are about Bitshares, and because of that, I am irrational to not wish to work with LTB.  WHatever you want to tell yourself buddy..

These posts alone show why I wouldn't want to work with you.  I basically think to highly of myself.

Quote
It's insulting that you haven't taken this away from my body of work, or the people I choose to share the platform with.   It's insulting you need me to explain this to you.

Oh yea, rule #88 in life.  Always know the history of Adam B Levine. Sorry Adam, we missed that one.  No, you're not exceptionally pompous.  Why would i ever question wanting to work on an LTB branded project?

Good grief.  I'll stop it here. 
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2014, 06:18:31 pm »
It's the ecosystem that develops when you have the core of the project in an indefensible position (Bitshares has not performed to development spec or internal expectations), after the dissenters realized their voices were not being heard, left.

 What's left is a defensive guard that's stuck whether for ideological (don't understand the mechanics but like the words used to describe them and the idea it'll make them rich) or mechanical (All-in AGS investors who have 100% tied their investments financial future to whether Invictus delivers something worthwhile... or not)

I'm hoping when Invictus delivers there will be a rush of rational investors, but again that requires them to deliver.

Your whole problem is your assumption in motivations.  My motivations do not align 100% with that of Bitshares.  There are other motivations going on here that are not readily quantified.  You, ABL, being the pompous person you are, assume you know what motivates everyone.  You simply don't.  You do not know what motivates me.  You seem to think your invitation should have everyone jump all over it.

So what you do is blame it all on Bitshares, because you don't want to confront the fact that I personally don't particularly like you or want to get involved in a media project under your umbrella organization.   I probably should have worded it different originally, but I troll the trolls and you took the bait.  My apologize for starting out the negativity and sending it down this path. W

I have not put enough into Bitshares to spend that much of my life in it.  Yet you've been making this claim that all my decisions are about Bitshares, and because of that, I am irrational to not wish to work with LTB.  WHatever you want to tell yourself buddy..

These posts alone show why I wouldn't want to work with you.  I basically think to highly of myself.

Quote
It's insulting that you haven't taken this away from my body of work, or the people I choose to share the platform with.   It's insulting you need me to explain this to you.

Oh yea, rule #88 in life.  Always know the history of Adam B Levine. Sorry Adam, we missed that one.  No, you're not exceptionally pompous.  Why would i ever question wanting to work on an LTB branded project?

Good grief.  I'll stop it here.

Who are you lol?  Did I *ever* talk to you before you attacked me?

I was interested, but I can't say I have much interest in working with stuff on LTB network. I was more interested in seeing a 100% independent media source that was not beholden to projects who put ads on the show.

You may not like my perspective on this project but I'd challenge you to support this statement.

When did I ever say or suggest I wanted to work with you?  What the hell are you even talking about?  This thread was just Arthur announcing a decision he made about a show he produces.  I am totally confused what your problem is outside of not liking me, which is obvious.
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Offline gamey

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2014, 06:37:38 pm »

Who are you lol?  Did I *ever* talk to you before you attacked me?

I'm not even sure what game you are playing.  Yes, you've talked to me.  About media, no.  Is that a right answer ?


When did I ever say or suggest I wanted to work with you?  What the hell are you even talking about?  This thread was just Arthur announcing a decision he made about a show he produces.  I am totally confused what your problem is outside of not liking me, which is obvious.

Well I had offered to help legendface.  I rescinded and then he was asking for a 'webmaster'.  I think my wording as to why caused more issues than rescinding my offer.  I think he'd like help on the website and I just lost interest working on a site with the LTB brand.  Nothing more.  It really doesn't even directly involve you.

You asked me to expound on my basic issue, I did, which then you then went and appeared to misrepresent elsewhere.  Just not a fan of how you conduct yourself.
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Offline gamey

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2014, 07:21:44 pm »


Contrary to all of ABL's assertions, centralized media is a bad thing.  It gives a lot of power into very few.  I've already had Adam threatening Bitshares media community because of my response s (and/or fuznuts) to him.  His insists he is right and we are wrong.  (Whatever I am wrong about, I have no clue.)

So let me clarify one last time.

1) I never said Adam has bad intentions, just that I have no interest in supporting centralized media.  Previously I had suggested helping legendface's website when I thought it was just him and fuz trying to make a go of it on their own.

2) In my explanation of my view,  I went out of my way to say I have NO reason to believe Adam was acting in bad faith.  It just doesn't follow that the LTB network will always be under the control of a benevolent actor.

3) There is a real battle for which technology will win and which won't.  Having completely independent media is a healthy thing.  Adam apparently disagrees, because he thinks everything should be under LTB and to even suggest centralized media is bad is insulting towards him apparently.

4) Again, there are no guarantees with centralized media.  It is better to just keep it decentralized.  Incentives creep into systems that aren't there are the start.  What we have now is not what we have in a year.

5) I was wrong in the assumption that Adam had something to do with the LTB rebranding of Legendface's show, but Adam has been wrong with his assumptions and miscategorizations what people say.

6) Adam keeps wanting to say all this is because everyone is a blind choir member fanboy for Bitshares and thus no one has a valid opinion. (As if we disagree with Adam about I3 missing shipping dates !?!?!)  Adam creates these fantasies in his head so he can write off any valid criticism.  It is pathetic.  Yes, I am a fan of bitshares but I am also a fan of all the related techs.  When you disagree with someone it isn't an all or nothing proposition.  With Adam it is, no one can have a valid dissenting opinion.  EVERY dissenting opinion here he labels as being because people are Bitshares fanboys.  What nonsense.

7) So much of this happened because legendface apparently acted unilaterally and caused a lot of bad blood initially.  And in his defense, he may very well have had valid reasons.  Even if he had already made the decision he shoud have approached fuz and at least tried to get him onboard.

That about sums it up.  "Stupid f***ing internet drama".

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Offline fuzzy

Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2014, 12:26:17 am »


Contrary to all of ABL's assertions, centralized media is a bad thing.  It gives a lot of power into very few.  I've already had Adam threatening Bitshares media community because of my response s (and/or fuznuts) to him.  His insists he is right and we are wrong.  (Whatever I am wrong about, I have no clue.)

So let me clarify one last time.

6) Adam keeps wanting to say all this is because everyone is a blind choir member fanboy for Bitshares and thus no one has a valid opinion. (As if we disagree with Adam about I3 missing shipping dates !?!?!)  Adam creates these fantasies in his head so he can write off any valid criticism.  It is pathetic.  Yes, I am a fan of bitshares but I am also a fan of all the related techs.  When you disagree with someone it isn't an all or nothing proposition.  With Adam it is, no one can have a valid dissenting opinion.  EVERY dissenting opinion here he labels as being because people are Bitshares fanboys.  What nonsense.

7) So much of this happened because legendface apparently acted unilaterally and caused a lot of bad blood initially.  And in his defense, he may very well have had valid reasons.  Even if he had already made the decision he shoud have approached fuz and at least tried to get him onboard.

That about sums it up.  "Stupid f***ing internet drama".


 6.  Imo gamey is right about this...

 7. Pretty much true, but that was not legends intent. I suspect this is somethig that kind of had to happen...things like this are chaotic and honestly the experience has made me realize I have some thinking to do with regard to the central issues around the intial frustration both legend and I certainly felt (for different reasons mind you)

At adam...admit for once you could have gone about it in a better way or dont...really doesnt matter. As for you inviting me to "your" platform, this is precisely the reason i didnt want to be a part of it.  Nothing against you...just the truth. About the quality of my work or sycophantic nature of my questions...im humbly helping invictus who seems often wholly incapable of marketing themselves, for the community and because I believe in dan and the true potential of what he is doing. The community mostly asks questions and i serve to relay them.  You are always more than welcome to ask dan hard questions during a hangout...otherwise I really dont care how I come off.

I leave my "mistakes" in the content because it happened and it is real. Someday I might do my own self edits and make a "show" for the kicks of it. People might someday make funny remixes of my fuck ups--who knows? I want to show noobies they do not need to fear speaking up and learning to give voice to the communities they believe in; to know everyone fucks up and not to be afraid to try.  If someone like you wants to take that content and mix it in a certain fashion it is there...for humor or to get at the points you feel are important and under covered...then use it as your own, I say do it...but recognize it started in the bitshares community.

Finally, about your earning money from your project and reinvestment into platforms, adam, that makes you very similar to a journalist AND venture capitalist.  It is a good BUSINESS to be in those niches...especially this early on.  To say you are not running a business, then, feels a bit of a stretch.  I consider "your" platform to be as decentralized as it can be until DACs finally come online to change the paradigm...I did not want to be part of lets talk bitcoin simply because I felt there needed to be a competitor of sorts in every
community, and that I wanted to help invictus by starting it there...learnin my strengths, weaknesses collaborating with people who are passionate and see what (i believe) many of the positives of their project. I then wanted to do the same in a other community...later down the road, to help prepare them to provide people like you with more unedited, open sourced content.

@legend none of this conversation has changed my willingness to help you...if we as a group cannot overcome misunderstandings then we should question our ability to inform people.  This thread must have gotten pretty heated way after I simmered down, rethought things and pretty much chalked it up to a misunderstanding.  Id personally like to chat sometime offline to see how we can most fairly construct the policies.  Perhaps youmcan invite people to join up and give their thoughts on the matter...

@gamey...I am glad you disagree with adam.  Im also glad when you disagree with me.  Calling eachother names though does just demean ourselves as much as it demeans those who call them.  I say this because ive learned it on more than a few occasions personally.  Though I sometimes think both side feel like they are banging their heads on each other...there is a LOT of energy behind both sides' beliefs...this means we should explore further


Lastly...all I want to do is organize things for people who want to create content and help them.  Legend has seen what I can do (thanks to dans support) and has directly benefitted.  There will be others who do as well. And I will never require a damn thing other than repsect for the work im attempting to do.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 12:43:44 am by fuznuts »
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