Author Topic: Honoring AGS  (Read 4233 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tonyk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2014, 07:14:33 pm »
While I agree with your assessment that you can't force people to issue shares, just looking at the 15% pts community response, I'd venture to guess that not honoring ags may not be the best marketing move ever and that looks an awful lot like a social discontentment/consensus contract to me. In the short term I don't see much wriggling room for dac-share-issuers.

As of today I have about 3.65x more AGS than PTS as pure # of shares,(which as of right now is  even bigger % of total AGS/PTS respectively, and will be ~3x  at the final numbers (1.65Mil PTS and 2 mil AGS). So my interest is AGS is to be honored… but I am just stating what is the logical step for a DAC developer.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline JakeThePanda

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
    • View Profile
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2014, 08:10:14 pm »
and this community IS large

Quote
Most Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color] 

Are sure you invested in AGS/PTS?  It's almost as if you want to see this fail and would take great pleasure in it.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • View Profile
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2014, 08:18:37 pm »
....thinking about it... there should anyway be due diligence on the side of III which projects are supported. Otherwise I could just create a shit DAC honour AGS/PTS each with 10% and get all the media package Stan suggested. That would be highly profitable.... 

Offline JoeyD

Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2014, 08:22:41 pm »
As of today I have about 3.65x more AGS than PTS as pure # of shares,(which as of right now is  even bigger % of total AGS/PTS respectively, and will be ~3x  at the final numbers (1.65Mil PTS and 2 mil AGS). So my interest is AGS is to be honored… but I am just stating what is the logical step for a DAC developer.

I have to admit it is one of the things I was somewhat curious about as well. Since my motivation for donating seems to differ a bit from others, I haven't really taken my time to think about the social concensus part or share distribution. I don't even know how much shares I'm supposed to get. I just wanted to support the development of as many competing chains and blockchain ideas as possible and I abhor the single-central-blockchain ones and especially the ones trying to pull everyone together in the same sphere of influence.

To be brutally honest I wouldn't mind at all if people did start competing with Invictus at their own game and fork the code and experiment with the technology on their own terms. I'm not a fan of the central point of failure model at all, but for now I don't see many other options. Rationally I'd expect people only to buy "shares" in DAC-chains that they are interested in after those DACs are up and running and only for as long as they have a use for it.

It is probably bad of me, but I might as well be upfront with it, eventhough it will hurt my interests plenty, but seeing people expecting to get rich of other peoples efforts by claiming and monopolizing a stake, instead of wanting to use the new DACs, end up with nothing would actually make me feel a whole lot better about the world. It might even instill in me a little confidence that out of all the crypto-blockchain-experiments something might emerge that could actually work, but for now I am not convinced. So from my point of view I don't even see why DAC developers would owe PTS anything and I'm not convinced that pump and dump speculators are even interested in decentralized companies/applications/collaborations and their uses in the first place.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 08:25:44 pm by JoeyD »

Offline JakeThePanda

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
    • View Profile
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2014, 08:33:06 pm »
As of today I have about 3.65x more AGS than PTS as pure # of shares,(which as of right now is  even bigger % of total AGS/PTS respectively, and will be ~3x  at the final numbers (1.65Mil PTS and 2 mil AGS). So my interest is AGS is to be honored… but I am just stating what is the logical step for a DAC developer.

I have to admit it is one of the things I was somewhat curious about as well. Since my motivation for donating seems to differ a bit from others, I haven't really taken my time to think about the social concensus part or share distribution. I don't even know how much shares I'm supposed to get. I just wanted to support the development of as many competing chains and blockchain ideas as possible and I abhor the single-central-blockchain ones and especially the ones trying to pull everyone together in the same sphere of influence.

To be brutally honest I wouldn't mind at all if people did start competing with Invictus at their own game and fork the code and experiment with the technology on their own terms. I'm not a fan of the central point of failure model at all, but for now I don't see many other options. Rationally I'd expect people only to buy "shares" in DAC-chains that they are interested in after those DACs are up and running and only for as long as they have a use for it.

It is probably bad of me, but I might as well be upfront with it, eventhough it will hurt my interests plenty, but seeing people expecting to get rich of other peoples efforts by claiming and monopolizing a stake, instead of wanting to use the new DACs, end up with nothing would actually make me feel a whole lot better about the world. It might even instill in me a little confidence that out of all the crypto-blockchain-experiments something might emerge that could actually work, but for now I am not convinced. So from my point of view I don't even see why DAC developers would owe PTS anything and I'm not convinced that pump and dump speculators are even interested in decentralized companies/applications/collaborations and their uses in the first place.

You should donate all the DAC shares your AGS are owed to the development of decentralized stuff.

Offline JoeyD

Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2014, 08:51:05 pm »
You should donate all the DAC shares your AGS are owed to the development of decentralized stuff.
I had indeed planned to donate all proceeds from any successful project (I have also invested outsided of bitshares) to the cause(s) I deem worthy. This does mean I'm not prepared to abscond my rights to the ags-shares, because I want to direct those donations myself. I am not in it for the money (sofar I'm only losing money), although I will use some of it if I need it to ensure at least my short term survival. This is easy for me to say however, because my particular health situation and statistical analysis of similar cases, both of which have made money practically meaningless to me. (Before you ask, no I'm not willing to give it away)

Offline JakeThePanda

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
    • View Profile
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2014, 09:09:00 pm »
You should donate all the DAC shares your AGS are owed to the development of decentralized stuff.
I had indeed planned to donate all proceeds from any successful project (I have also invested outsided of bitshares) to the cause(s) I deem worthy. This does mean I'm not prepared to abscond my rights to the ags-shares, because I want to direct those donations myself. I am not in it for the money (sofar I'm only losing money), although I will use some of it if I need it to ensure at least my short term survival. This is easy for me to say however, because my particular health situation and statistical analysis of similar cases, both of which have made money practically meaningless to me. (Before you ask, no I'm not willing to give it away)

I'm sorry for your situation, but it's certainly not your place to judge anyone for wanting to make profits from their investments, especially when we are investing in DACs.  Last time I checked, the whole idea behind them was to make profits for the coin holder.  I will give you one chance to respond and we should end the derail.  Good luck!

Offline JoeyD

Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2014, 09:37:33 pm »
I'm sorry for your situation, but it's certainly not your place to judge anyone for wanting to make profits from their investments, especially when we are investing in DACs.  Last time I checked, the whole idea behind them was to make profits for the coin holder.  I will give you one chance to respond and we should end the derail.  Good luck!
Oh I see what you mean. The thing about my situation wasn't to gain empathy, but actually my attempt to explain that I wasn't trying to force my view on others.  I was trying to illustrate why I might have a different perspective and that that might make me miss points that are important to people with different goals, to prevent miscommunication. .

I completely agree with DACs adding value to the coin holders and was not trying to take away from that concept at all. But we were talking about ways to distribute those coins and which distributions would be available to DAC-developers, in order to give his DAC and the participants therein the most value. So I myself and I suspect TonyK as well, were also considering situations with no shares distributed to PTS and/or AGS and I don't think those options should be left outside of the discussion.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:39:44 pm by JoeyD »

Offline AdamBLevine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
    • Let's Talk Bitcoin!
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2014, 11:11:22 pm »
and this community IS large

Quote
Most Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color] 

Are sure you invested in AGS/PTS?  It's almost as if you want to see this fail and would take great pleasure in it.

I take no pleasure in this, it's just stressful.  It sucks that desperate people delude themselves, and it sucks that it makes them unhappy when their distortion is corrected.   It's better to look at the reality of the situation than what you wish it were because it would be better for you.    Since day one I've advised expectation management, but they can't or won't do it.   

What is the primary value of honoring the social contract?  The community.  If Invictus had cultivated an ecosystem that would be a fair trade, but looking around that isn't what happened.  Sorry if this is news to you, I wish it wasn't so blindingly obvious to me.  I'm not that smart, this isn't that hard.
Email me at [email protected]

Offline unimercio

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 245
  • The opportunity of a lifetime comes by every 7 day
    • View Profile
    • Conscious Entrepreneurship Foundation (CEF)
  • BitShares: unimercio
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2014, 05:40:22 am »

Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!

Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party. 

I think this could be a cool project and would definitely get behind it if it honored AGS.

We might run into problems promoting it as a DAC if it's not really Decentralized and Autonomous.  But I think we could promote it as a great project that honors our community consensus.

I don't think there's any obligation here, but I think it would generate a lot of good will and we're a cool community!  Please consider it Freetrade!! :)
  +5%
Conscious Entrepreneurship Foundation (CEF)

Offline FreeTrade

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
    • View Profile
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2014, 12:22:00 pm »
I've reconsidered the issue following the feedback from the community and decided to honor the AGS holders with 10%. Thanks for the feedback on this issue and apologies for any divisiveness created.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3694
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2014, 12:33:04 pm »
and this community IS large

Quote
Most Online Today: 117. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) [/color] 

https://nextcoin.org:
Most Online Today: 64. Most Online Ever: 480 (December 25, 2013, 10:43:50 PM)

http://mastercointalk.org:
Most Online Today: 26. Most Online Ever: 142 (May 07, 2014, 08:28:09 AM)

https://forums.counterparty.co/
Most Online Today: 38. Most Online Ever: 86 (February 19, 2014, 01:19:58 pm)


ALEXA RANKS:

https://bitsharestalk.org:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitsharestalk.org
Global Rank  132,628

https://nextcoin.org:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nextcoin.org
Global Rank  263,310

https://forums.counterparty.co/
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/forums.counterparty.co
Global Rank  358,420

http://mastercointalk.org:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mastercointalk.org
Global Rank  806,126

https://maidsafe.org/
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/maidsafe.org
Global Rank  1,482,450
  https://bitshares.OPENLEDGER.info/?r=GREECE  | You are in Control | BUY | SELL | SHORT | SWAP | LOAN | TRADE |  

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3694
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2014, 12:34:32 pm »
I've reconsidered the issue following the feedback from the community and decided to honor the AGS holders with 10%. Thanks for the feedback on this issue and apologies for any divisiveness created.

+5% +5% +5%

PS What matters in the end are results because of decisions taken. Respect/thanks for your wise decision.  ;)

« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 12:47:00 pm by liondani »
  https://bitshares.OPENLEDGER.info/?r=GREECE  | You are in Control | BUY | SELL | SHORT | SWAP | LOAN | TRADE |  

Offline Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2868
  • You need to think BIGGER, Pinky...
    • View Profile
    • Cryptonomex
  • BitShares: Stan
Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2014, 12:46:30 pm »
I've reconsidered the issue following the feedback from the community and decided to honor the AGS holders with 10%. Thanks for the feedback on this issue and apologies for any divisiveness created.

What matters is the end results/decisions, respect for now  ;)

+5% +5% +5%

This is fantastic news for the whole industry.

I truly believe that the model FreeTrade is demonstrating will be how more and more DACs will released from now on.  By targeting the communities he has chosen, he will get instant buzz and high levels of support and by reserving enough resources to provide continuing maintenance and evolution of a high-quality product he will show how to ensure that such companies are competitive.

And because he is such an inspiring example, it is essential that we all make sure the world knows about it!


« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 12:53:12 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline CalabiYau

Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2014, 02:27:24 pm »
I've reconsidered the issue following the feedback from the community and decided to honor the AGS holders with 10%. Thanks for the feedback on this issue and apologies for any divisiveness created.

 +5%  appreciated !