Author Topic: Petition to fire Brian Page  (Read 5348 times)

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Offline Amazon

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I think there is no need to keep this poll open. Donjon, please contact me if you have question about it.
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Offline mf-tzo

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But 10 weeks is only a quarter of the time it takes to make a baby.
And no one remembers that long wait once the baby is bouncing in their lap.

 :) :) :) Stan, your parallelisms are always brilliant!! keep them coming they bring us laugh and patience for the future!!

Offline muse-umum

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Brian, you have my support 100%.

It's unbelievable that there is someone who starts such thread when he has himself hidden in the shadow and can't even figure out exactly what Brian has delivered. The job Brian and marketing team did is not perfect certainly but it's acceptable to me since so far not any real product has been released. An old Chinese saying goes:"巧妇难为无米之炊", which means one can't make bricks without straw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bricks_without_straw


Offline davidpbrown

Marketing is effective when it has a product to follow through on. I'd suggest then it's too early to be critical of the marketing where currently that has little opportunity to get traction. Perhaps more could be done to communicate clearly the vision and what products will provide the normal user and prepare for a big splash to kickstart each launch. Communicating through multiple different avenues and in different ways will be key to engaging the widest possible audience. It is a wonder that BP isn't more visible.. perhaps he is elsewhere keeping reddit and BCT ticking over, that would be useful as would other styles of engaging audience.
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Offline BTSdac

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I have been asking questions about the marketing strategies to MktDirector (who is taking $100k/y salary from AGS and wasting shareholders' money on awful marketing), including the new site, outsourcing social media, his effort in other forums, his assistant and transparency of money spent . This is the answer I got:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4658.msg61757#msg61757

Base on the fact of the bitshares marketing failure, I petition to vote firing him and get a new marketing director before further damage.
it is hard to evaluate the effort of MktDirector,
but I think III spend too much money on market,  small money on developer , I hope III spend more money on developer.
WhatsApp spend little money on market basically, but they value 19 billion dollar
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 01:51:41 pm by BTSdac »
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Offline gyhy

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Offline alt

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I belive the whole I3 team.
Guys what is with you? I am very surprised with this thread.

Did you see any of his interviews? Take a look and you will see how good he is. We desperately need more people like him to spread the good word. After releasing the product he can get to real work.

What can be part of discussion is his salary. He could get paid less when there is no product for real marketing, and full salary when products are out or paid per performance.
Maybe some day there could be a DAC that is determining salary. Something like voting for salary that creates real salary for person from median of votes.

I am sad because Charles Hoskinsons is not here with us any more, he seems to be a great seller and we need people like him too.

Marketing work is hardest before there is something concrete to sell! 

This is especially true because we had to insert a 10-week delay to develop DPOS.
While we were doing that, it seemed like endless night.
And people got tired of hearing us talk about how great it will be.

But 10 weeks is only a quarter of the time it takes to make a baby.
And no one remembers that long wait once the baby is bouncing in their lap.

That is when Brian's ability to generate excitement can be fully unleashed.

Offline Stan

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Guys what is with you? I am very surprised with this thread.

Did you see any of his interviews? Take a look and you will see how good he is. We desperately need more people like him to spread the good word. After releasing the product he can get to real work.

What can be part of discussion is his salary. He could get paid less when there is no product for real marketing, and full salary when products are out or paid per performance.
Maybe some day there could be a DAC that is determining salary. Something like voting for salary that creates real salary for person from median of votes.

I am sad because Charles Hoskinsons is not here with us any more, he seems to be a great seller and we need people like him too.

Marketing work is hardest before there is something concrete to sell! 

This is especially true because we had to insert a 10-week delay to develop DPOS.
While we were doing that, it seemed like endless night.
And people got tired of hearing us talk about how great it will be.

But 10 weeks is only a quarter of the time it takes to make a baby.
And no one remembers that long wait once the baby is bouncing in their lap.

That is when Brian's ability to generate excitement can be fully unleashed.


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline mf-tzo

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What can be part of discussion is his salary. He could get paid less when there is no product for real marketing, and full salary when products are out or paid per performance.

 +5%

$100k seems a lot to me when BC hired a marketing company for something like $25k-$35k (I think) and apparently did a very good job. I may be wrong about the $100k salary and once the DACs are released this might be indeed look like a bargain.

However currently I believe that this salary is not reflected in how the market see I3 DACs so far... If BTS is launched and there is a demand above $50 per BTS upon launching, then the $100k would have been a minimal wage. Until that day $100k seems a lot...

Fire him? No way, unless I3 feels that way which is not the case.  I think he is quite good at what he does and might do much more behind the scenes that the rest of us are unaware. However, marketing and investment consultants who attract new business are two different things...

We should not be allowed to vote who I3 keeps and who they fire. If we are not happy about I3's job and how they spend their AGS funding we shouldn't have donated in the first place. Have some faith people! Good things will come  ;)!


Offline cass

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and marketing camaigns shouldn't discussed completly public..cause of competitors etc..

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Brian has done tremendous job for marketing from introducing bitshares to the people via the official website. Besides, no product has been released yet so what is there to market. Get ready for some marketing when each DAC begins to roll.

+5%

Brian: full support from my side!

« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 08:33:55 am by cass »
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Offline jwiz168

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Brian has done tremendous job for marketing from introducing bitshares to the people via the official website. Besides, no product has been released yet so what is there to market. Get ready for some marketing when each DAC begins to roll. Remember bitshares products use a new kind of technology that few people  will comprehend . I know how the sentiment of the author is when his/her investments are far from getting the dice to roll.

Offline Kenof

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Guys what is with you? I am very surprised with this thread.

Did you see any of his interviews? Take a look and you will see how good he is. We desperately need more people like him to spread the good word. After releasing the product he can get to real work.

What can be part of discussion is his salary. He could get paid less when there is no product for real marketing, and full salary when products are out or paid per performance.
Maybe some day there could be a DAC that is determining salary. Something like voting for salary that creates real salary for person from median of votes.

I am sad because Charles Hoskinsons is not here with us any more, he seems to be a great seller and we need people like him too.
Making life easier.

Offline donkeypong

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He shouldn't have to report to us on everything he's doing. I'd rather he didn't. Surely Bytemaster and the 3I team are keeping tabs, which is enough for me. Trust Brian to do his job, which is to market the heck out of these DACs when they come. Until then, it only makes sense to conserve marketing resources and get ready for that big push.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 02:55:03 am by donkeypong »

Offline solaaire

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the development team is completely transparent. we pretty much know everything that they're up to, because they always take the time to let us know. bytemaster and toast especially. constant communication, frequent engagement, and transparency are hallmarks of their posting styles

on the other hand, marketing related updates are far more sparse. Brian also does not engage users on the board nearly as frequently. im not saying that this is a bad thing, or that Brian is not doing a good job, etc.. but i think its pretty easy to understand how the disparity in transparency between the development arm and the marketing arm could make current investors/users uneasy

Offline cass

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What we should remember is that it is difficult for us on the forum to see what is being done all day. Therefore we should not be easy to judge and be patient. What what it also implies is that communication is helpful.
Anyway trust and support (also by friendly and constructive critique) is most motivating and I am pretty certain Brian will give it back many times!

 +5%

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Offline Gentso1

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Most people agree in the thread agree it is hard to market something when there is no product available.

Possible stupid question but why not worry about hiring a full fledged marketing director ONCE a product is released?
On a side note http://www1.salary.com/Marketing-Director-Salary.html  127K is the median salary for his position.
I have no opinion on how good of a job he is doing because it goes back to that no product yet.

I also think that it's great that he is making contacts and busy drumming up investors but I feel that if more thought went into the products and less went into "fund raising" we may be better served.

I believe a good product will sell itself and a great marketing director will help you sell more of them but until products are released I3 could get the word out simply by buying ad space on various forums for next to nothing UNTIL a product is released and then hire Brian or whoever to help the idea reach more people.

Frankly I have seen the mood here on these forums go from geeky/nerdy/frothing at the mouth, to a now souring sentiment and people are looking to vent or blood (thats not to say that they don't have a point).

I would post a clever meme but all I think think of is the scene from the begining of Indaina Jones and the temple of doom where he is running from the natives yelling "start the plane, start the plane". We are of course the natives and Brian being indy and I suppose dan is the planes pilot.

Just my opinions so take them for what the are worth........
 

Offline NewMine

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For it.

What exactly has been produced that you could've paid someone half as much for?

You get website after website rebuild, besides the words being spoken, everything about the interviews/propaganda videos sucked (looks, feel, personal appearance, awkwardness, editing..), no internet presence outside of the forum here (Reddit, Facebook, Twitter are ghost towns), no marketing tools like t-shirts, stickers, hats being sold to us here at the forum or emails being sent out etc.  should he being doing all these things? Of course not, but he sure as hell should be directing people to do these things.

If his role is to schmooze potential investors for money, then you have him labeled under the wrong title and need to hire a real Director of Marketing. A director of Marketing does not do that.  Marketing and Sales are two different beasts.

He should be creating a comprehensive marketing, communications and public relations program that will enhance Bitshares image and position within the marketplace and the general public.

He should be in contact with media and organize appropriate response to all media (even members of the forum since this is Bitshares only media outlet thus far).

He should be conducting Market research.

Effectively enable volunteers and staff to maintain goals of Bitshares.

He should definitely have a presence here on the forum if not for any other reason than to gauge market sentiment since this is the hub to all who are in the know and participate in Bitshares.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 09:39:37 pm by NewMine »

Offline cass

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I fully support Brian.
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline donkeypong

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Yes, 100K for a good marketing person is not unusual. I have a feeling it will seem like a bargain in a few months.

Offline xeroc

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Wha I am interested in is weather 100k yearly is considered a "usual" loan for a marketing director.

Weather brian is doing a job can be reevaluated in 6 months once a producted is there to be marketed.

Offline Agent86

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I agree it's hard to market a product that hasn't arrived, which creates a difficult situation.

I think if we are confident we can get this right in a reasonable time-frame then there is no problem.  I also think Brian has been good in interviews and seems he would be an asset if we get something to market.

I also think we need to be very realistic about the potential delays and technical challenges ahead.  We have had unexpected delays and donations have slowed considerably.  It would be a horrible shame if we ever got to the point that developers had to stop work to look for other work or we had to pass up on hiring great developers because we ran out of money before the goals and vision were accomplished.

I don't know enough to do that calculus but I know it's very difficult to be realistic with people you have become friends with so it would be hard for bytemaster to get rid of people even if it was a necessary business decision, so the community needs to be brutally realistic. We can survive with just developers if we absolutely need to.  Of course we all hope this isn't the case and we will have products that need marketing soon.

Offline santaclause102

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What we should remember is that it is difficult for us on the forum to see what is being done all day. Therefore we should not be easy to judge and be patient. What what it also implies is that communication is helpful. Xeroc's suggestion about marketing updates is a good one imo.

Anyway trust and support (also by friendly and constructive critique) is most motivating and I am pretty certain Brian will give it back many times!

Offline CalabiYau

DonJon, your posts have been too aggressive to answer although I agree that some questions need to be answered.

I suggest you end this poll and split your questions into different topic without personal attack. You are big shareholder, we are all trying to make bitshares successful.
+5%

Offline Stan

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I fully support Brian.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline boshen1011

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I fully support Brian.

Offline donkeypong

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I support Brian. He's lying in wait until the DACs come close, and then you'll truly get to see him in action.

Offline mint chocolate chip

It is a challenge to market a product that is still in development, and will be for an unspecified amount of time.

With that said, it would be great if we could see more production, someone working full time on marketing earning a very generous salary should be producing more and interacting more with the members of the forum who volunteer their time to the cause.

The press section of the website has some respectable brands with nice articles/interviews, but most of them are from 2013, January and February (one from early march) - what has happened in the past 80 days on this?

The social media needs to be updated more often - the twitter page has several 4-5 day gaps without any updates. A full time marketer should be able to come up with something relevant to update at least once per day.

Offline xeroc

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Brian is great! Keep him! But I would appreciate it if he would come to appreciate the forum and use it for himself in terms of organizing BTT / crypto space marketing and in terms of appreciating the feedback he gets here. There are a lot of talented people here. Leverage them. Overall I do see quite a bit of room for improvement but I am positive he is a talented guy who can work it out!
+5%

Offline Amazon

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DonJon, your posts have been too aggressive to answer although I agree that some questions need to be answered.

I suggest you end this poll and split your questions into different topic without personal attack. You are big shareholder, we are all trying to make bitshares successful.
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Offline onceuponatime

Against. I think Brian's value will become much more clear when we actually have a product we're trying to sell to normal people.

I have grown to support him  more and more. Before it used to bother me that Charlie H managed to get the whole bitcoin space hyped up over nothing (~*turing complete*~!!) while all our good ideas go unnoticed. But we're only going to be in "early adopter" phase for so long. After that we need smooth talking good looking charismatic people who can simplify and clarify and talk to the media. The crypto nerds will get on board when the dacs hit coinmarketcap in any case.

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Agreed. Brian will be invaluable in the future when there are actual products released.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 06:23:54 pm by onceuponatime »

Offline toast

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Against. I think Brian's value will become much more clear when we actually have a product we're trying to sell to normal people.

I have grown to support him  more and more. Before it used to bother me that Charlie H managed to get the whole bitcoin space hyped up over nothing (~*turing complete*~!!) while all our good ideas go unnoticed. But we're only going to be in "early adopter" phase for so long. After that we need smooth talking good looking charismatic people who can simplify and clarify and talk to the media. The crypto nerds will get on board when the dacs hit coinmarketcap in any case.

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Offline santaclause102

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To me it looks like this (trying to be as objective as possible):

Interviews: Superb.
Website: Now good but very ineffective.
Making ties in the crypto space and with other third parties: Not seen anything yet but hard to tell.

Brian is great! Keep him! But I would appreciate it if he would come to appreciate the forum and use it for himself in terms of organizing BTT / crypto space marketing and in terms of appreciating the feedback he gets here. There are a lot of talented people here. Leverage them. Overall I do see quite a bit of room for improvement but I am positive he is a talented guy who can work it out!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 05:57:09 pm by delulo »

Offline DonJoe

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I have been asking questions about the marketing strategies to MktDirector (who is taking $100k/y salary from AGS and wasting shareholders' money on awful marketing), including the new site, outsourcing social media, his effort in other forums, his assistant and transparency of money spent . This is the answer I got:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4658.msg61757#msg61757

Base on the fact of the bitshares marketing failure, I petition to vote firing him and get a new marketing director before further damage.