Author Topic: What is BitShares PTS (proto-shares)?  (Read 96857 times)

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Offline toast

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Re: What is BitShares PTS (proto-shares)?
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2014, 03:25:30 am »
No, more like 1:1.5

You're thinking of before when they made PTS allocation go from 10% to 50%
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Offline jwiz168

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2014, 03:13:31 am »

with the bitshares launch is upcoming will the ratio of Protoshares against bitshare still be 1:5?


What is happening to the value of this protoshares??? Keeps on going DOWN? When will be the new DACS release? Before was 1 Protoshare = 1 bitshare, Now what is this angelshares  ?  50% angelshares + 50 % protoshares = bitshares ???? Please clarify.

Don't worry. Before it was 1 Protoshare -> 1 Bitshare (BEXshare) but there will be 10 times as many bitshares as there will be protoshares. So 10% was planned. Now it is 50% (1 Protoshares -> 5 Bitshares).
And the price is going down due to a temporary technicality: It is more efficient to buy Angelshares with Bitcoin so people sell their Protoshares for Bitcoin....

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #100 on: January 12, 2014, 04:07:11 pm »
Uhm, how many protoshares will be produced?And when is the approximate date until all shares are mined? :D

There will be roughly 2 million. After that 1% inflation after 2 years.
There are 1.3 million mined up to now.
I am not sure but 99% should ROUGHLY be mined in the next 1-2 years.
Its is a logarithmic function....

Offline saintfrancis

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2014, 12:49:34 pm »
Uhm, how many protoshares will be produced?And when is the approximate date until all shares are mined? :D

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2014, 09:45:48 am »
What is happening to the value of this protoshares??? Keeps on going DOWN? When will be the new DACS release? Before was 1 Protoshare = 1 bitshare, Now what is this angelshares  ?  50% angelshares + 50 % protoshares = bitshares ???? Please clarify.

Don't worry. Before it was 1 Protoshare -> 1 Bitshare (BEXshare) but there will be 10 times as many bitshares as there will be protoshares. So 10% was planned. Now it is 50% (1 Protoshares -> 5 Bitshares).
And the price is going down due to a temporary technicality: It is more efficient to buy Angelshares with Bitcoin so people sell their Protoshares for Bitcoin.... 

Offline jwiz168

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2014, 02:23:08 am »
What is happening to the value of this protoshares??? Keeps on going DOWN? When will be the new DACS release? Before was 1 Protoshare = 1 bitshare, Now what is this angelshares  ?  50% angelshares + 50 % protoshares = bitshares ???? Please clarify.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2014, 07:14:07 pm »
I want to make sure I understand everything fully....

A 3rd Party developer of a POS DAC would waive the money he would get from a presale (to the degree he gives tokens to PTS holders) for the advantage of attention and support by a diversified crowd (PTS holders).  Is that right?

Would the following summary be comprehensive?

Quote
All PTS holders together get at least 10% of each DAC (precisely 10% of the tokens (coins) the DAC uses) Invictus will ever release (with Bitshares it will be 50%). This 10% slice will be proportional in distribution to the distribution of PTS. Apart from that other developers can do the same and give a certain percentage of their coins to PTS holders. The advantage for them would be that the DAC they release will immediately have the attention of all the PTS holders. And every person that owns a coin has an incentive to promote it or contribute to its development in whatever way so that the price of the coins this person owns increases. This audience (PTS holders) in addition is one that understands the potential and functioning of DACs well - it's an advantage to have such an initial user base instead of random miners. This is perfect for Proof of Work based DACs. Proof of stake DACs are missing out on the initial funding they would get... But they can waive a part of it to still have the support and attention from PTS holders. Furthermore DACs of non invictus developers will give the full 10% or more of their DAC tokens to PTS holders if Invictus assists the development or if the DAC is build based on Invictus

Offline zhang8862686

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2014, 08:48:01 am »
Developers and Investors start on a level playing field for obtaining ProtoShares. Both may begin
mining and trading ProtoShares on a pre-announced Launch Date. The developer’s only advantage is in
believing more in the value of what they are developing and acquiring their ProtoShares before the
general market demand heats up. The slow release of new shares keeps supply in line with demand so
that share price can reflect the consensus value of the shares as the market takes an ever closer look at
the idea.

nice
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Offline fuckingegg

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2014, 07:54:45 am »
very useful

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2014, 11:51:17 am »

I think developers will use this launch pad because its the most cost effective way to accelerate their path to fame and glory.

And when it's not, they won't.

I think this in a nutshell is why PTS/AGS as a platform, infrastructure, and SDK - more than a single product, will be a huge success. In the same way the Apple and Android app stores exploded because there were already so many users on each platform and the tools to quickly get apps out the door made it very compelling and also difficult to justify developing something from the ground up.

Agreed! Because this is a scaling market (economies of scale) heavily influenced by networks effects, reputation, marketing, technical superiority (everything ;)) pays out exponentially. This is something where VC money makes a difference. 

Offline Riverhead

Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2014, 11:34:28 am »

I think developers will use this launch pad because its the most cost effective way to accelerate their path to fame and glory.

And when it's not, they won't.

I think this in a nutshell is why PTS/AGS as a platform, infrastructure, and SDK - more than a single product, will be a huge success. In the same way the Apple and Android app stores exploded because there were already so many users on each platform and the tools to quickly get apps out the door made it very compelling and also difficult to justify developing something from the ground up.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2014, 09:24:31 am »
Solid. I overall agree  :)

Offline Stan

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2014, 04:49:38 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)

This is an interesting playing field.
It's a balance between the obvious benefits (easy way to a distributed shareholder base -> advocates / marketers of DAC) against not receiving the part of the money that PTS holders dont have to pay in the initial funding / presale if its a POS Coin. Maybe nothing that weighs out the benefits.. What other benefits does the dac developer have then the one named above?
Why do you think nxt or mastercoin which have some similar features (in terms of claimed functions) like Bitshares (although I think Bitshares is superior from what can be known by now) didn't honor protoshares?

ProtoShares are only 2 months old.
AngelShares are only 2 weeks old.     

As new developers weigh this as a potential new launch option, they have to consider what they would do instead that would be more advantageous:

Quote
AGS was originally viewed as Invictus-specific.  We are only the caretakers, the management agents by which members of the community can crowd-fund common infrastructure and the ecosystem on which other DACs can quickly build. 100% of the funds raised are recycled back into the community to fund development and promotion by the community.   Once the toolkit, infrastructure and ecosystem are built it belongs to the stakeholder community, not Invictus.

So now, as a DAC developer do you want to build on top of that ecosystem without honoring those that sacrificed to build it?  How do you think those PTS and AGS holders collectively would view a new DAC that dissed their contributions?  Who else will understand and appreciate your new DAC if you alienate them?

Would you rather build your own ecosystem and come up with the money to do that all over again independently?  Why?  To save 20% that would otherwise be given away in mining lotteries in an attempt to attract attention from somehow knowledgable non-stakeholders?

These are question every developer must ask.  What do you think the wisest will choose?   :)

And what about the opportunity costs of re-inventing the wheel? 

I think developers will use this launch pad because its the most cost effective way to accelerate their path to fame and glory.

And when it's not, they won't.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #89 on: January 06, 2014, 01:41:56 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)

This is an interesting playing field.
It's a balance between the obvious benefits (easy way to a distributed shareholder base -> advocates / marketers of DAC) against not receiving the part of the money that PTS holders dont have to pay in the initial funding / presale if its a POS Coin. Maybe nothing that weighs out the benefits.. What other benefits does the dac developer have then the one named above?
Why do you think nxt or mastercoin which have some similar features (in terms of claimed functions) like Bitshares (although I think Bitshares is superior from what can be known by now) didn't honor protoshares?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 01:57:54 am by delulo »

Offline Stan

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2014, 01:05:12 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)

As a PTS holder I'd have a stake in both (10% in one, 20% in the other) so I don't think I'd feel courted away...unless you mean I'd be more likely to use/support/endorse the 20% service because I have double the interest in it succeeding?

In the end, even Invictus will be interested in something we own, even if it competes with something else we own.

If someone launched a better BitShares right now and honored our PTS/AGS we'd say - "thanks for saving us the trouble" and then get on with using it (and improving on it).  In the open source world, does it really matter who built it?



Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.