Author Topic: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN  (Read 3118 times)

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Offline xeroc

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[TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« on: June 17, 2014, 12:14:18 pm »
This series of articles/posts is intended to be an extensible work considering parts of DPOS/BitShares technically. If you feel something is missing just tell me and I will add it.
The goal is to have an article we can use to construct a FAQ for a technical description of the ecosystem.


BitShares-Wiki: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 08:01:51 am by xeroc »
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Online alt

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 02:55:55 pm »
+5%

Offline metalallen

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 03:16:33 pm »
Studying... +5% +5%
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Offline toast

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2014, 03:17:12 pm »
OMG, this is the kind of stuff that should be on our website
 +5% +5% +5%
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Offline Amazon

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 03:19:12 pm »
OMG, this is the kind of stuff that should be on our website
 +5% +5% +5%

 +5% I have sent PM to Stan and Brian to request that. And we should have a new section for these articles, not in faq.
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Offline betax

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 03:33:18 pm »
Fantastic very good doc/s +20%
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Offline toast

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2014, 03:47:54 pm »
The wiki is also a good place to put these, it is publicly editable:

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/wiki
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Offline xeroc

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2014, 03:57:30 pm »
The wiki is also a good place to put these, it is publicly editable:

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/wiki
Thanks .. gonna do that when I have the time
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Offline bytemaster

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 04:14:26 pm »
I edited the post to reflect that with the new protocol it does not require a 2-step process and thus the transfer is not reversible.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline xeroc

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2014, 04:26:50 pm »
I edited the post to reflect that with the new protocol it does not require a 2-step process and thus the transfer is not reversible.
Wanted to ask about that, because I was unsure .. thx for the edit!
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Offline xeroc

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2014, 08:28:34 pm »
I edited the post to reflect that with the new protocol it does not require a 2-step process and thus the transfer is not reversible.
One more question: From my understanding we have instant confirmation (or maybe 30 sec) here .. is this true .. No real need to wait for 6 confirmations .. a single one must be sufficient?!?
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Offline toast

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2014, 08:33:00 pm »
I edited the post to reflect that with the new protocol it does not require a 2-step process and thus the transfer is not reversible.
One more question: From my understanding we have instant confirmation (or maybe 30 sec) here .. is this true .. No real need to wait for 6 confirmations .. a single one must be sufficient?!?

More confirmations means more certainty - just say "30 second block times"
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline xeroc

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2014, 08:34:12 pm »
I know about that .. but as we have delegates which confirm tx .... do we have an 'estimate' on how 'long' I need to wait?
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Offline emski

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2014, 08:34:24 pm »
I edited the post to reflect that with the new protocol it does not require a 2-step process and thus the transfer is not reversible.
One more question: From my understanding we have instant confirmation (or maybe 30 sec) here .. is this true .. No real need to wait for 6 confirmations .. a single one must be sufficient?!?

It shouldnt be sufficient because forks are still real possibility. But lets someone with more knowledge elaborate.

Offline bytemaster

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2014, 10:33:50 pm »
I edited the post to reflect that with the new protocol it does not require a 2-step process and thus the transfer is not reversible.
One more question: From my understanding we have instant confirmation (or maybe 30 sec) here .. is this true .. No real need to wait for 6 confirmations .. a single one must be sufficient?!?

It shouldnt be sufficient because forks are still real possibility. But lets someone with more knowledge elaborate.

Confirmation time is dynamic based upon the number of missed blocks.  If no blocks have been missed recently then 1 confirmation is enough.  For every block that is missed you add 2 confirmations to the requirement.   Generally speaking 2 confirmations should be plenty (30 sec to 1 minute).

The real issue is that you don't want to require someone to be online to receive funds. 
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline xeroc

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2014, 06:47:26 am »
Confirmation time is dynamic based upon the number of missed blocks.  If no blocks have been missed recently then 1 confirmation is enough.  For every block that is missed you add 2 confirmations to the requirement.   Generally speaking 2 confirmations should be plenty (30 sec to 1 minute).
Well, that's what I was thinking. Thanks for the confirmation

Quote
The real issue is that you don't want to require someone to be online to receive funds.
I don't get that! don't you need to check that the network sees the transaction, and check that the transaction is valid (in terms if signature and input)?
Why would one use crypto offline without the ability to verify?
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Offline bytemaster

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2014, 04:00:39 pm »
Confirmation time is dynamic based upon the number of missed blocks.  If no blocks have been missed recently then 1 confirmation is enough.  For every block that is missed you add 2 confirmations to the requirement.   Generally speaking 2 confirmations should be plenty (30 sec to 1 minute).
Well, that's what I was thinking. Thanks for the confirmation

Quote
The real issue is that you don't want to require someone to be online to receive funds.
I don't get that! don't you need to check that the network sees the transaction, and check that the transaction is valid (in terms if signature and input)?
Why would one use crypto offline without the ability to verify?

If I am out at dinner I still want you to be able to pay the invoice I sent you before I left for the day without having my computer on to handshake with you.

Not all transactions are 'immediate' or based upon complete lack of trust.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline dahongfei

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 01:13:03 am »
According to my understanding, under TITAN no one else has knowledge of the spendable balances linked to an address, except the private key owner. And to check your exact balance, you need to have a full copy of the blockchain and scan every TXs to find spendable balances.

Does this mean lite clients (SPV/blockchain.info wallet) are impossible under TITAN?

Offline toast

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 01:28:13 am »
According to my understanding, under TITAN no one else has knowledge of the spendable balances linked to an address, except the private key owner. And to check your exact balance, you need to have a full copy of the blockchain and scan every TXs to find spendable balances.

Does this mean lite clients (SPV/blockchain.info wallet) are impossible under TITAN?

Correct, there is a plan to add "observer key" to give to semi-trusted server for this application

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Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2014, 01:30:21 am »
I have a question.
If I run two client with same account.
Each client wil create dynamic key and can not keep sync.
when client A get transaction which is create by client B from the block chain.
client A can't decrypt this transaction, can get nothing info from this?
this is very confuse. I have met this situation already.
I dump the private key,  crate a new wallet, and import key again.
Here is what I can see. Should we need to handle this?
Code: [Select]
default (unlocked) >>> wallet_account_balance
alt:
    0.009740 XTS
dorian:
    0.029998 XTS
Code: [Select]
default (unlocked) >>> wallet_account_transaction_history                                                                                                               
    BLK.TRX  TIMESTAMP           FROM                TO                  MEMO                                             AMOUNT             FEE              ID
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
  10092.1    2014-06-16T06:41:45 alt                 dorian              hello                                      0.100000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        f65a6b4d
  10133.0    2014-06-16T06:58:45 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        ee5dd73a
  10296.0    2014-06-16T08:05:00 clout               alt                                                           50.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        e2c9cbc9
  10339.0    2014-06-16T08:22:45 mauritso            alt                                                           10.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        37671f7e
  10341.0    2014-06-16T08:23:15 mauritso            alt                                                          10.000000 LOVE        0.000000 XTS        fe819ec6
  10355.0    2014-06-16T08:30:45 betax               alt                                                           20.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        2ebd73be
  10384.0    2014-06-16T08:42:15 betax               alt                                                      100,000.000000 HAP        0.000000 XTS        851d86be
  10511.0    2014-06-16T09:32:15 spartako            alt                 some love                               100.000000 LOVE        0.000000 XTS        870cd6e6
  12772.0    2014-06-16T23:37:15 alt                 dorian              send LOVE                                20.000000 LOVE        0.000000 XTS        35e018a8
  12911.0    2014-06-17T00:20:45 alt                 alt                 create DREAM (Dream)                       0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        a7f1c1fe
.....
 13791.0    2014-06-17T05:28:30 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        da389b2e
  17561.0    2014-06-18T02:10:30 delegate-alt        alt                 fff                                      1.000000 DRINK        0.000000 XTS        f26f33dd
  17565.0    2014-06-18T02:11:30 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        ce9065bf
  17565.1    2014-06-18T02:11:30 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        e2867fd0
  17570.1    2014-06-18T02:13:00 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        316df9d2
  17570.2    2014-06-18T02:13:00 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        48d51c58
  17570.3    2014-06-18T02:13:00 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        f7188d13
  17570.0    2014-06-18T02:13:00 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        137264b5
  17579.0    2014-06-18T02:16:15 UNKNOWN             UNKNOWN                                                        0.000000 XTS        0.000000 XTS        1d298173
.....

Offline dahongfei

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2014, 01:38:26 am »
According to my understanding, under TITAN no one else has knowledge of the spendable balances linked to an address, except the private key owner. And to check your exact balance, you need to have a full copy of the blockchain and scan every TXs to find spendable balances.

Does this mean lite clients (SPV/blockchain.info wallet) are impossible under TITAN?

Correct, there is a plan to add "observer key" to give to semi-trusted server for this application

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Great I just thought of that too.

I have a feeling that these delegate key, observer key thing bring us to a new level on par with the days that file system permissions are first introduced.

drekrob

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2014, 07:31:26 am »
this thread is pinned and promises all you need to know but leads to a dead page on github. You should probably change that.

Offline xeroc

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2014, 08:01:37 am »
this thread is pinned and promises all you need to know but leads to a dead page on github. You should probably change that.
Oh yeha ... sorry about that ..

fixed to:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN
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Offline Thom

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2015, 06:10:00 am »
This sticky is old and outdated. There is a reason TiTAN was deactivated which has not been discussed in depth. The "I" in TITAN no longer stands for "Invisibly", it is "Immediately". Stealth addresses are (temporarily?) disabled, but no details have been provided on when they might return.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2015, 06:21:00 am »
This sticky is old and outdated. There is a reason TiTAN was deactivated which has not been discussed in depth. The "I" in TITAN no longer stands for "Invisibly", it is "Immediately". Stealth addresses are (temporarily?) disabled, but no details have been provided on when they might return.

Technically they haven't been disabled yet.  The light client will not support them.  They will be re-enabled once we identify a viable privacy system.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Thom

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2015, 03:07:44 pm »
Would you please elaborate to enlighten the audience, me included?

Which chunks of software have stealth and which do not, and when (what target version) will that change?

What I'm hearing is that stealth addresses are still the default in 0.51 of the toolkit but I don't know when (if) they're going away in 0.6, 0.7 ... 1.0     It is my understanding that all variations of BitShares code use the toolkit, with the possible exception that the light wallet only uses the client-side javascript library (but those clients talk to a server that must be using the same toolkit code the "heavy" wallets use).

Please elaborate as I'm hearing a mixed message. Perhaps knowing the above will help.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline bytemaster

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2015, 03:15:12 pm »
Would you please elaborate to enlighten the audience, me included?

Which chunks of software have stealth and which do not, and when (what target version) will that change?

What I'm hearing is that stealth addresses are still the default in 0.51 of the toolkit but I don't know when (if) they're going away in 0.6, 0.7 ... 1.0     It is my understanding that all variations of BitShares code use the toolkit, with the possible exception that the light wallet only uses the client-side javascript library (but those clients talk to a server that must be using the same toolkit code the "heavy" wallets use).

Please elaborate as I'm hearing a mixed message. Perhaps knowing the above will help.

I have been loath to disable stealth addresses in the full client because they do provide some value.  That said, ease of use and performance are higher priorities than privacy right now.

My guess is we will not disable stealth addresses in the full client until after the light client has gained acceptance.   So lets just say, "1.0" or later for now.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

deprdoo

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Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2015, 03:34:18 pm »
Will we still be able to use names instead of addresses without titan?

No privacy I realize.

Offline bytemaster

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2015, 03:36:53 pm »
Will we still be able to use names instead of addresses without titan?

No privacy I realize.

Yes
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Thom

Re: [TechTalk] All you need to know ... about TITAN
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2015, 11:17:36 pm »
Thanks for the clarification. If this changes please let us know.It would be great if you would provide some advance notice by saying stealth will be disabled by default in the x.x.x release.

Any chance that when you do disable stealth addresses (to support the thin client / web wallet) you could leave them turned on for unregistered accounts? If a person is truly trying to be stealthy why use a registered account anyway?
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html