[FYI] SWARM project will be livestreaming its crowdsale launch! Monday 6/16 8pm

[gamey]

Umm, no.  Criticism that is grounded in reality is fine.  You don't like that I'm critical of Invictus and you certainly don't like that now many people are coming out of the woodwork echoing those things I've been complaining about for six months now. 

I'm sorry you don't like how I talk, but I've lost my patience after for months trying to help Invictus avoid these exact problems.  You'll notice today Stan admitted that they should have followed my guidance and NOT gone from 10% allocated of BTS (PTS original plan) to 100% allocated (PTS/AGS) plan.  But at the time they were ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that nothing would go wrong, so why leave buffer when you can maximize for the shareholders.    Now, the delegate system is FUCKED because the pie is all allocated and so we're talking about moving to an INFLATIONARY system after daniel made this gigantic stink about how wasteful mining is and how we're smarter and can do it for free.

I get that you, like many, are all in.  Just because you are doesn't mean the rest of us need to stick our heads in the ground like idiots and pretend things are going well.  They're not.  Invictus is WAY behind and that is assuming there are no more unknown unknowns that jump out and cause the system to be thrown out as TAPOS was before it.

Your narcissism shows in this post, but at least it is grounded in reality.  They've made mistakes and I'm sure they'll continue to make mistakes.  I'll actually even go as far to ask what do you mean, the "original plan" was 10% of BTS ?  What were BTS ?  I'm actually lost.  That is one thing I do like about your posts though, is you have been around longer than a lot of us and do bring in some historical stuff. 

You complain about the pie being all allocated, but you also wanted them to give some very large amount of PTS to a winner take all bounty IIRC.  Mining is stupid in the longrun.  If it can be avoided, it needs to be avoided.  I'd hate to have to rely on GPU miners to stay on a chain.  They're going to have to get paid somehow to stick around. Even if we are back to an inflationary model, it is a model that has a huge market incentive to keep this inflation rate down.  So the DAC gets value from the inflation.  This value is in the form of network security AND whatever the market/capitalists come up with to become elected.  Also, the nice thing is the inflation rate is always up to the DAC creator.  The inflation is not to help I3, it is to help the DACs.   But you have this simplistic look at the whole thing... so we're going to have to listen to it.  It is still an improvement over mining unless the whole thing fails.

[AdamBLevine]

I do not like many things in I3 and I say them publicly with a hope they will change for better!

Let me tell you what I really do not like:

-Starting an IPO for 10 MIL US Dollars;

-Giving no clue what the company will actually do(not with the money, in general);

-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';

-Disappearing again with hardly any explanations…

and you should not like those things more than me – your name is on their joke of a site…

PS I think I am done with this topic.


[edit] added 'do'

-Starting an IPO for 10 MIL US Dollars;

So you don't like that they set a maximum funding goal as well as a minimum funding goal.  This contrasts to Invictus which did not set a maximum funding goal or a minimum funding goal.   Why is this something evil for swarm to do and fine for Invictus to do?  What exactly is evil about setting an ambitious maximum funding goal?  Remember, that's the point at which they say they will stop taking money from people, not some arbitrary amount being demanded.   

-Giving no clue what the company will actually do(not with the money, in general);

If you don't know what the company does, you shouldn't invest.  Nobody is forcing anybody, what exactly is the problem?   Swarm is pretty clear about what they are, they are a crowdfunding platform that generates custom tokens for projects.  If you buy the Swarm token, whenever a project launches on the swarm platform 1% of the tokens (or it might be 1.5%, not looking at numbers) are distributed to all holders of swarm tokens... just like protoshares, except they actually have the tech ready and are doing it.     If you have a problem with swarms concept, you should have a big problem with Invictus because Protoshares IS THE SAME THING except Invictus decides where all the money goes and it doesnt look like they've done a very good job.    If your concern is that you can't understand it, are you saying that they should have this all together when you do not expect the same from Invictus?  Ask a new person if AGS/PTS/BTS/BTS_X/BTS_ME is clear, it's not.   Swarm at least hasn't created a giant hairball of confusion, they just have initial "what is that" confusion.    Do you really want to argue this point?

-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';

.....this is really a point you want to hang your hat on?   Things are confusing in early days, I would assume you'd be sympathetic.

-Disappearing again with hardly any explanations…

Unless you do something crazy like email them at their advertised email addresses, skype the founder, join their hipchat, etc. etc.  again do you really want to argue about communication competency?

and you should not like those things more than me – your name is on their joke of a site…

I already gave them shit for not being understanding of a confused guy who came into their chat, yelled a bunch and got himself kicked.  It was the wrong thing to do and they'll suffer his hate for it.   My name is on the site because I believe crowdfunding is an exceptionally important area that cryptocurrency is just about to disrupt, and Swarm is an ambitious attempt executing towards that vision.   That's the quote I have on the site, I'm totally comfortable with my exposure.   I'm not part of the company, they've never paid me any money and they've listened when I cautioned them about things like releasing the token without attaching any value to it (which eventually wound up being the 1% distribution).   

Of course you're done with the topic, I'm asking you to back up your hate with some actual data and all you've got is that you want Invictus to succeed and anyone pointing out the reasons why that chance is slipping away are the enemy.   You are blinded by your investment, and your behavior is to the detriment of the entire community you wish to protect. 

[gamey]

The reasons you call me a troll, have they become concerns for anyone else in the Bitshares community?   Yep....

So I don't have to spend my time saying it.  Invictus has made the wrong choices and not been very humble in doing so, that's not a problem I caused and it's not one you getting mad at me can fix.

I am attacking your approach and posting patterns.  I have no idea what you think a better funding method would be to maintain open source funding + 100% legality and not fall under the purview of the SEC/law.  You attacked the whole Bitshares community over one person. Layering 2 ad hominems on top of each other to reach your point.  This is typical for you.  Do you even know what an ad hominem is ?  You can not take any direct criticism, you always deflect it.  You used your appeal to authority with me.  ie. I'm a "random" and therefore you didn't care what I said.  (lol ... fair enough, but childish and illogical to the extreme..)

"Not humble"..  What does that even mean ?   Dan takes criticism and invites people to debate/discuss things with him. Why would it ever matter if they are humble or not ?  Apparently you used a different name before and they ignored you.  Ohh boo hoo.  Did you ever think maybe your ideas were just inferior?  I'm not being mad, just honestly asking you.  I wont' get an answer. You'll deflect by yet another logic fallacy.  Good grief.

[tonyk]

I do not like many things in I3 and I say them publicly with a hope they will change for better!

Let me tell you what I really do not like:

-Starting an IPO for 10 MIL US Dollars;

-Giving no clue what the company will actually do(not with the money, in general);

-Appearing on the 3rd day and saying – 'Sorry for the delay, I was drunk from the IPO party 3 days ago';

-Disappearing again with hardly any explanations…

and you should not like those things more than me – your name is on their joke of a site…

PS I think I am done with this topic.


[edit] added 'do'

[AdamBLevine]

Umm, no.  Criticism that is grounded in reality is fine.  You don't like that I'm critical of Invictus and you certainly don't like that now many people are coming out of the woodwork echoing those things I've been complaining about for six months now. 

I'm sorry you don't like how I talk, but I've lost my patience after for months trying to help Invictus avoid these exact problems.  You'll notice today Stan admitted that they should have followed my guidance and NOT gone from 10% allocated of BTS (PTS original plan) to 100% allocated (PTS/AGS) plan.  But at the time they were ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that nothing would go wrong, so why leave buffer when you can maximize for the shareholders.    Now, the delegate system is FUCKED because the pie is all allocated and so we're talking about moving to an INFLATIONARY system after daniel made this gigantic stink about how wasteful mining is and how we're smarter and can do it for free.

I get that you, like many, are all in.  Just because you are doesn't mean the rest of us need to stick our heads in the ground like idiots and pretend things are going well.  They're not.  Invictus is WAY behind and that is assuming there are no more unknown unknowns that jump out and cause the system to be thrown out as TAPOS was before it.

[bitbro]

I agree.  ABL is a terror


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[liondani]

[tonyk]

Even YOU just cannot have it both ways Adam, either my criticism is bad or we are all ‘hooray, hooray ‘… chose your lane.

[AdamBLevine]

Any criticism of Invictus is designated "troll" by the faithful choir of the forum (hey guys! it's been a while).

I'm only here waiting for the delegate situation to become clear to me, and of course to watch you guys laying out the welcome matt for concerned to-this-point silent investors.

[AdamBLevine]

The amazing bitshares community at work!   See everyone?  THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.

I am better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even burning my money, than giving it to some of the projects you support - like swarm…

[edit] 'better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even'
[edit] 'be' added.

Wonderful!  I have complete control over tonyk's investment decisions!   My power grows....

lol, seriously - Why do you think I care who you give your money to?  Aren't you one of the people here who has flat out said they put all their investable funds into Angelshares, and thus were "all in"?

[tonyk]

The amazing bitshares community at work!   See everyone?  THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.

Do you have anything to say but be a troll ?  I remember a few weeks ago you complaining about your donations taking too long due to PTS problems.  Now PTS problems are a great place to start pointing out the mistakes of I3, but it demonstrated you were clearly still donating.  What other projects do you use your real name to just constantly troll ?  Surely we should see this behavior from you elsewhere or I would think something is going on.....

So TonyK says something you don't agree with and you somehow tie it into the "Bitshares community" as a whole.  Then you somehow tie that into the funding model which as of a few weeks ago you appeared to still be supporting.

Huge jumps in logical thinking afoot.

Gamey, let him enjoy his miserable troy life while he can and be happy that ‘things need to be clarified or smoothed’  as the biggest problem of  the Bitshares community. Pretty soon the people that took the big money will be gone and he will be the only one available to blame, be he ‘stupid promoter’  or real scammer. Then and there he will have his real problem at hand… it will not take long…. let him enjoy what is left till then.

[bitbro]

The reasons you call me a troll, have they become concerns for anyone else in the Bitshares community?   Yep....

So I don't have to spend my time saying it.  Invictus has made the wrong choices and not been very humble in doing so, that's not a problem I caused and it's not one you getting mad at me can fix.

you admit you are a troll


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[AdamBLevine]

The reasons you call me a troll, have they become concerns for anyone else in the Bitshares community?   Yep....

So I don't have to spend my time saying it.  Invictus has made the wrong choices and not been very humble in doing so, that's not a problem I caused and it's not one you getting mad at me can fix.

[gamey]

The amazing bitshares community at work!   See everyone?  THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.

Do you have anything to say but be a troll ?  I remember a few weeks ago you complaining about your donations taking too long due to PTS problems.  Now PTS problems are a great place to start pointing out the mistakes of I3, but it demonstrated you were clearly still donating.  What other projects do you use your real name to just constantly troll ?  Surely we should see this behavior from you elsewhere or I would think something is going on.....

So TonyK says something you don't agree with and you somehow tie it into the "Bitshares community" as a whole.  Then you somehow tie that into the funding model which as of a few weeks ago you appeared to still be supporting.

Huge jumps in logical thinking afoot.

[tonyk]

The amazing bitshares community at work!   See everyone?  THIS is why you should pay 20% of your money supply to use the Bitshares toolkit, what an amazing deal.

I am better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even burning my money, than giving it to some of the projects you support - like swarm…

[edit] 'better off fight over misunderstandings all day long and even'
[edit] 'be' added.