Need Help Sourcing Information on BitShares

[santaclause102]

You guys see that this is a thread about helping with sourcing information on bitshares and not on bashing adam levine and charles hoskinson. None of the added commentary is necessary and it is completely unbecoming

 

You can disagree with Adam and Charles (I often do). It is fine to disagree though for me. But all that negativity (charles didn't begin negative) hurts BitShares or at least doesnt help it. Get over your emotions!!

I hope Charles rises above it all

That is a two sided process. Love/trust and hate/distrust always have two parties to it and reinforce each other until the momentum is broken.

[bytemaster]

Regards the assertion that we have the smallest 2.0 community, I looked at the forum statistics, which obviously doesn't provide anywhere near the whole picture, but just for some initial indication -

NXT Forum:    most online: 480 ; online today: 54   ; 5603 members
BitShares:      most online: 383 ; online today: 105 ; 5091 members
MasterCoin:    most online: 142 ; online today: 38 ; 337 members
Counterparty: most online: 86 ; online today: 34 ; 612 members
Ethereum:      I can't see their forum statistics.

So at the moment, we're not far from being more active than the other 3 combined, and only just behind NXT in terms of members & the most online ever.

Considering NXT has a lot of stuff up and running, and we haven't released BitShares XT & DPOS yet, I think that's pretty amazing. I can't imagine how much interest there's going to be soon! Great job guys!

This really makes me feel a lot better!  Thanks for putting together these stats.

[betax]

FATHER FORGETS
W. Livingston Larned
Listen, son: I am saying this as you lie asleep, one little
paw crumpled under your cheek and the blond curls stickily
wet on your damp forehead. I have stolen into your room
alone. Just a few minutes ago, as I sat reading my paper
in the library, a stifling wave of remorse swept over me.
Guiltily I came to your bedside.
There are the things I was thinking, son: I had been cross
to you. I scolded you as you were dressing for school because
you gave your face merely a dab with a towel. I took
you to task for not cleaning your shoes. I called out angrily
when you threw some of your things on the floor.
At breakfast I found fault, too. You spilled things. You
gulped down your food. You put your elbows on the table.
You spread butter too thick on your bread. And as you
started off to play and I made for my train, you turned
and waved a hand and called, “Goodbye, Daddy!” and
I frowned, and said in reply, “Hold your shoulders
back!”
Then it began all over again in the late afternoon. As I
came up the road I spied you, down on your knees, playing
marbles. There were holes in your stockings. I humiliated
you before your boyfriends by marching you ahead of me to
the house. Stockings were expensive - and if you had to
buy them you would be more careful! Imagine that, son,
from a father!
Do you remember, later, when I was reading in the library,
how you came in timidly, with a sort of hurt look in
your eyes? When I glanced up over my paper, impatient at
the interruption, you hesitated at the door. “What is it you
want?” I snapped.
You said nothing, but ran across in one tempestuous
plunge, and threw your arms around my neck and kissed
me, and your small arms tightened with an affection that
God had set blooming in your heart and which even neglect
could not wither. And then you were gone, pattering up the
stairs.
Well, son, it was shortly afterwards that my paper slipped
from my hands and a terrible sickening fear came over me.
What has habit been doing to me? The habit of finding fault,
of reprimanding - this was my reward to you for being a
boy. It was not that I did not love you; it was that I expected
too much of youth. I was measuring you by the yardstick of
my own years.
And there was so much that was good and fine and true in
your character. The little heart of you was as big as the
dawn itself over the wide hills. This was shown by your
spontaneous impulse to rush in and kiss me good night.
Nothing else matters tonight, son. I have come to your bed-side
in the darkness, and I have knelt there, ashamed!
It is a feeble atonement; I know you would not understand
these things if I told them to you during your waking
hours. But tomorrow I will be a real daddy! I will chum
with you, and suffer when you suffer, and laugh when you
laugh. I will bite my tongue when impatient words come. I
will keep saying as if it were a ritual: “He is nothing but a
boy - a little boy!”
I am afraid I have visualized you as a man. Yet as I see
you now, son, crumpled and weary in your cot, I see that
you are still a baby. Yesterday you were in your mother’s
arms, your head on her shoulder. I have asked too much,
too much.
Instead of condemning people, let’s try to understand
them. Let’s try to figure out why they do what they do.
That’s a lot more profitable and intriguing than criticism;
and it breeds sympathy, tolerance and kindness. “To
know all is to forgive all.”
As Dr. Johnson said: “God himself, sir, does not propose
to judge man until the end of his days.”
Why should you and I?
PRINCIPLE 1
Don’t criticize, condemn or complain.

I am daddy too and I couldn't managed to hold my tears...
To all sons in the world: We loves you endlessly please forgive our mistakes.

 

[onceuponatime]

Regards the assertion that we have the smallest 2.0 community, I looked at the forum statistics, which obviously doesn't provide anywhere near the whole picture, but just for some initial indication -

NXT Forum:    most online: 480 ; online today: 54   ; 5603 members
BitShares:      most online: 383 ; online today: 105 ; 5091 members
MasterCoin:    most online: 142 ; online today: 38 ; 337 members
Counterparty: most online: 86 ; online today: 34 ; 612 members
Ethereum:      I can't see their forum statistics.

So at the moment, we're not far from being more active than the other 3 combined, and only just behind NXT in terms of members & the most online ever.

Considering NXT has a lot of stuff up and running, and we haven't released BitShares XT & DPOS yet, I think that's pretty amazing. I can't imagine how much interest there's going to be soon! Great job guys!

This is precisely the reason why people like Hosk (and adam for that matter) need to cease pushin negative propaganda our way. 

Not only does invictus have the obstacle of needing deeper, more meaningful and market-penetrating marketing, we as a community have largely been victims of Adam and Hosks LARGELY FUD-based "subjective" opinions--aka negative marketing campaigns.

Literally within weeks of invictus refusal to pay Adam for advertising,  these negative marketing campaigns started..(coincidence?..tbfair...possibly).  Of course if anyone wants to know how valid adams negative opinions were here, all they need to do is go look up proof of his expertise (the bitshares xt dry runs or his completely invalid labeling of bitshares as another ripple would be good places to start).  Or you can look at all the VALID questions our community has asked him that he refused to answer...

Or you can look at all the new PoS derivatives that use Dans visionary assessments of the current obsolete state of crypto, adopting his solutions and acting as though they are their own innovative features (for instance-- those that use 5% interest, or the 2.0 tech that been forced to acknowledge the validity of Dans argument for multiple blockchains..just to name a couple). They say mimicry is the ultimate form of flattery, but a complete lack of trust in bitshares fomented by these people is going to almost certainly effect how many "mimickers"("cloners") actually honor PTS/AGS. 

So much for adam and hoskinson actually EVER admitting these brilliant ideas started HERE, in this community, with DAN at the helm.

Or we might look to the validity and trustworthiness of Hoskinsons opinions...look at statistics that empiracl brought up...

I am so glad Hoskinson is not working actively on this project because I dont trust him (what RATIONAL reason would anyone have to trust him at this juncture?)  Dan came across to me as REAL...not overly polished and sales-pitchy.  It was SO refreshing to me to see someone who was obviously not comfortable with selling a bunch of hype, even if he made some mistakes in gettimg everything perfect the first time through.

Even though I dont often agree with invictus' marketing plans, at the very least Dan has always gone out of his way to sacrifice to make this project worthwhile and to earn our trust...even giving time on his family day to update the community on progress. 

Not sure about how this is such a mystery to you Hoskinson...but if you keep getting unflaterring feedback, you should consider the value of looking in the mirror and asking yourself "why does the bitshares community have so little trust in my motives?" Im not trying to be an asshole here...just honest (just like i am with anyone-including myself when i am part of the problem [which to a degree i am]).  We are all people and we all make mistakes...it is up to us to change them.  As a matter of fact its the primary reason I, a low-middle class veteran and student with a wife and newborn chose to take the payment I received for helping fill the void you left and ACTUALLY give it to you (who are likey far better off than most our forum volunteers) for the work you were planning.

Why blame investors for having difficulty trusting you? 

By all means, if Hoskinson feels "leaving" and not participating is how he will garner support from this community...then I suppose I wish him luck.  As far as adam goes, if he would realize that he is not the only investor in this project and that there are others in this community with valuable insights that happen to run against the grain of his opinions...and that they might actually be RIGHT sometimes...I think he'd do much better here too. 

So odd...it is only when a specific handful of people come here that the community gets riled up.  Most everything else is pure, positive and constructive interaction.  Wish you two could se that and appreciate the real value that is here.

Good luck Hoskinson...my offer is still there if you want to earn trust in probably the craziest and most distrustful member of this forum (me).

I propose fuznuts interview Charles Hoskinson and maybe some special guests for the Beyond Bitcoin show.

Beautiful!!! 

[werneo]

Regards the assertion that we have the smallest 2.0 community, I looked at the forum statistics, which obviously doesn't provide anywhere near the whole picture, but just for some initial indication -

NXT Forum:    most online: 480 ; online today: 54   ; 5603 members
BitShares:      most online: 383 ; online today: 105 ; 5091 members
MasterCoin:    most online: 142 ; online today: 38 ; 337 members
Counterparty: most online: 86 ; online today: 34 ; 612 members
Ethereum:      I can't see their forum statistics.

So at the moment, we're not far from being more active than the other 3 combined, and only just behind NXT in terms of members & the most online ever.

Considering NXT has a lot of stuff up and running, and we haven't released BitShares XT & DPOS yet, I think that's pretty amazing. I can't imagine how much interest there's going to be soon! Great job guys!

This is precisely the reason why people like Hosk (and adam for that matter) need to cease pushin negative propaganda our way. 

Not only does invictus have the obstacle of needing deeper, more meaningful and market-penetrating marketing, we as a community have largely been victims of Adam and Hosks LARGELY FUD-based "subjective" opinions--aka negative marketing campaigns.

Literally within weeks of invictus refusal to pay Adam for advertising,  these negative marketing campaigns started..(coincidence?..tbfair...possibly).  Of course if anyone wants to know how valid adams negative opinions were here, all they need to do is go look up proof of his expertise (the bitshares xt dry runs or his completely invalid labeling of bitshares as another ripple would be good places to start).  Or you can look at all the VALID questions our community has asked him that he refused to answer...

Or you can look at all the new PoS derivatives that use Dans visionary assessments of the current obsolete state of crypto, adopting his solutions and acting as though they are their own innovative features (for instance-- those that use 5% interest, or the 2.0 tech that been forced to acknowledge the validity of Dans argument for multiple blockchains..just to name a couple). They say mimicry is the ultimate form of flattery, but a complete lack of trust in bitshares fomented by these people is going to almost certainly effect how many "mimickers"("cloners") actually honor PTS/AGS. 

So much for adam and hoskinson actually EVER admitting these brilliant ideas started HERE, in this community, with DAN at the helm.

Or we might look to the validity and trustworthiness of Hoskinsons opinions...look at statistics that empiracl brought up...

I am so glad Hoskinson is not working actively on this project because I dont trust him (what RATIONAL reason would anyone have to trust him at this juncture?)  Dan came across to me as REAL...not overly polished and sales-pitchy.  It was SO refreshing to me to see someone who was obviously not comfortable with selling a bunch of hype, even if he made some mistakes in gettimg everything perfect the first time through.

Even though I dont often agree with invictus' marketing plans, at the very least Dan has always gone out of his way to sacrifice to make this project worthwhile and to earn our trust...even giving time on his family day to update the community on progress. 

Not sure about how this is such a mystery to you Hoskinson...but if you keep getting unflaterring feedback, you should consider the value of looking in the mirror and asking yourself "why does the bitshares community have so little trust in my motives?" Im not trying to be an asshole here...just honest (just like i am with anyone-including myself when i am part of the problem [which to a degree i am]).  We are all people and we all make mistakes...it is up to us to change them.  As a matter of fact its the primary reason I, a low-middle class veteran and student with a wife and newborn chose to take the payment I received for helping fill the void you left and ACTUALLY give it to you (who are likey far better off than most our forum volunteers) for the work you were planning.

Why blame investors for having difficulty trusting you? 

By all means, if Hoskinson feels "leaving" and not participating is how he will garner support from this community...then I suppose I wish him luck.  As far as adam goes, if he would realize that he is not the only investor in this project and that there are others in this community with valuable insights that happen to run against the grain of his opinions...and that they might actually be RIGHT sometimes...I think he'd do much better here too. 

So odd...it is only when a specific handful of people come here that the community gets riled up.  Most everything else is pure, positive and constructive interaction.  Wish you two could se that and appreciate the real value that is here.

Good luck Hoskinson...my offer is still there if you want to earn trust in probably the craziest and most distrustful member of this forum (me).

I propose fuznuts interview Charles Hoskinson and maybe some special guests for the Beyond Bitcoin show.

[solaaire]

You guys see that this is a thread about helping with sourcing information on bitshares and not on bashing adam levine and charles hoskinson. None of the added commentary is necessary and it is completely unbecoming

 

[clout]

You guys see that this is a thread about helping with sourcing information on bitshares and not on bashing adam levine and charles hoskinson. None of the added commentary is necessary and it is completely unbecoming

[fuzzy]

Regards the assertion that we have the smallest 2.0 community, I looked at the forum statistics, which obviously doesn't provide anywhere near the whole picture, but just for some initial indication -

NXT Forum:    most online: 480 ; online today: 54   ; 5603 members
BitShares:      most online: 383 ; online today: 105 ; 5091 members
MasterCoin:    most online: 142 ; online today: 38 ; 337 members
Counterparty: most online: 86 ; online today: 34 ; 612 members
Ethereum:      I can't see their forum statistics.

So at the moment, we're not far from being more active than the other 3 combined, and only just behind NXT in terms of members & the most online ever.

Considering NXT has a lot of stuff up and running, and we haven't released BitShares XT & DPOS yet, I think that's pretty amazing. I can't imagine how much interest there's going to be soon! Great job guys!

This is precisely the reason why people like Hosk (and adam for that matter) need to cease pushin negative propaganda our way. 

Not only does invictus have the obstacle of needing deeper, more meaningful and market-penetrating marketing, we as a community have largely been victims of Adam and Hosks LARGELY FUD-based "subjective" opinions--aka negative marketing campaigns.

Literally within weeks of invictus refusal to pay Adam for advertising,  these negative marketing campaigns started..(coincidence?..tbfair...possibly).  Of course if anyone wants to know how valid adams negative opinions were here, all they need to do is go look up proof of his expertise (the bitshares xt dry runs or his completely invalid labeling of bitshares as another ripple would be good places to start).  Or you can look at all the VALID questions our community has asked him that he refused to answer...

Or you can look at all the new PoS derivatives that use Dans visionary assessments of the current obsolete state of crypto, adopting his solutions and acting as though they are their own innovative features (for instance-- those that use 5% interest, or the 2.0 tech that been forced to acknowledge the validity of Dans argument for multiple blockchains..just to name a couple). They say mimicry is the ultimate form of flattery, but a complete lack of trust in bitshares fomented by these people is going to almost certainly effect how many "mimickers"("cloners") actually honor PTS/AGS. 

So much for adam and hoskinson actually EVER admitting these brilliant ideas started HERE, in this community, with DAN at the helm.

Or we might look to the validity and trustworthiness of Hoskinsons opinions...look at statistics that empiracl brought up...

I am so glad Hoskinson is not working actively on this project because I dont trust him (what RATIONAL reason would anyone have to trust him at this juncture?)  Dan came across to me as REAL...not overly polished and sales-pitchy.  It was SO refreshing to me to see someone who was obviously not comfortable with selling a bunch of hype, even if he made some mistakes in gettimg everything perfect the first time through.

Even though I dont often agree with invictus' marketing plans, at the very least Dan has always gone out of his way to sacrifice to make this project worthwhile and to earn our trust...even giving time on his family day to update the community on progress. 

Not sure about how this is such a mystery to you Hoskinson...but if you keep getting unflaterring feedback, you should consider the value of looking in the mirror and asking yourself "why does the bitshares community have so little trust in my motives?" Im not trying to be an asshole here...just honest (just like i am with anyone-including myself when i am part of the problem [which to a degree i am]).  We are all people and we all make mistakes...it is up to us to change them.  As a matter of fact its the primary reason I, a low-middle class veteran and student with a wife and newborn, chose to take the payment I received for helping fill the void you left and ACTUALLY give it to you (who are likely far better off than most our forum volunteers) for the work you were planning.

Why blame investors for having difficulty trusting you? 

By all means, if Hoskinson feels "leaving" and not participating is how he will garner support from this community...then I suppose I wish him luck.  As far as adam goes, if he would realize that he is not the only investor in this project and that there are others in this community with valuable insights that happen to run against the grain of his opinions...and that they might actually be RIGHT sometimes...I think he'd do much better here too. 

So odd...it is only when a specific handful of people come here that the community gets riled up.  Most everything else is pure, positive and constructive interaction.  Wish you two could see that and appreciate the real value that is here.

Good luck Hoskinson...my offer is still there if you want to earn trust in probably the craziest and most distrustful member of this forum (me--not that my opinion matters THAT much).

[CLains]

This forum is definitely one of our big strengths, and with the recent efforts we are currently in the progress of converting this internal pressure to an outward presence. If we play our cards right we will be surging ahead on bitcointalk.org, facebook, twitter, reddit, and real world meetups as well. We can all play by this and other secret plans 

[Empirical1]

Regards the assertion that we have the smallest 2.0 community, I looked at the forum statistics, which obviously doesn't provide anywhere near the whole picture, but just for some initial indication -

NXT Forum:    most online: 480 ; online today: 54   ; 5603 members
BitShares:      most online: 383 ; online today: 105 ; 5091 members
MasterCoin:    most online: 142 ; online today: 38 ; 337 members
Counterparty: most online: 86 ; online today: 34 ; 612 members
Ethereum:      I can't see their forum statistics.

So at the moment, we're not far from being more active than the other 3 combined, and only just behind NXT in terms of members & the most online ever.

Considering NXT has a lot of stuff up and running, and we haven't released BitShares XT & DPOS yet, I think that's pretty amazing. I can't imagine how much interest there's going to be soon! Great job guys!

[CLains]

When I say something critical to people I regard as friends here on the forum, presumably they take it to heart or at least wrestle with my words a bit. If I say something identical to someone I don't know, they will barely read my words and move on. If someone says "You guys suck at communication and I don't like this place" my suggestion is to simply ignore the last part and address the valid concerns in the first half of the comment with acknowledgement and highlights of what we are doing to address this concern. I think the way to deal with free speech is to simply ignore non-productive speech.

[Empirical1]

I also wanted to say something about forums.  I tend to see forums as very pro free speech until things get absolutely nasty/irrelevant/spammy.  I try not to be directly offensive, but I'm 100% here to hear/understand the best ideas.  If I think I have something interesting to say, I say it. Free speech is important.  It can be a rough crowd though.  It might be too much for some people.  I'm always helpful/friendly but I also am quite truthful which sometimes can be blunt.  That is the greatest things about forums tho -  free speech.

Exactly. The BitShares community does try hard to be one of the most mutually respectful communities around, but personally my style is a bit more direct & I value free speech and enjoy challenging debates.

To be fair Bitbro's comment about the crypto-currency metaphor was a bit pedantic, given how knowledgable & involved Charles clearly is in this space. Imo, he can call them shiny unicorn disco tokens for all I care

However, from his responses in this thread and others, the lack of closure and ego stroking that's required here just isn't realistic on a public forum. So the idea that we missed out on some amazing contributions is a red herring.

However I also firmly believe advancements in this area are going to be good for humanity as a whole & besides the positive & material  impact he's probably already had on Ethereum, (&  even BitShares initially) I wouldn't be surprised if Charles is involved in more really positive & significant developments elsewhere. I hope he is.

[gamey]

I also wanted to say something about forums.  I tend to see forums as very pro free speech until things get absolutely nasty/irrelevant/spammy.  I try not to be directly offensive, but I'm 100% here to hear/understand the best ideas.  If I think I have something interesting to say, I say it. Free speech is important.  It can be a rough crowd though.  It might be too much for some people.  I'm always helpful/friendly but I also am quite truthful which sometimes can be blunt.  That is the greatest things about forums tho -  free speech.

[gamey]

I think it is largely immaterial what happened here.  Look at it all objectively and not with emotion.  One guy questioned Charles and he immediately starts to go in complain mode and implying a threat to withdraw support via Udemy.  I hope Charles rises above it all and gives us a Bitshares Udemy treatment thats of the same quality as his other Udemy work.

[fuzzy]

You are jumping in the anti-Hoskinson bandwagon thread

The principles are open to interpretation and as you point out they can be somewhat paradoxical, but my intention was to be constructive and help people in this community see what went wrong, and how we might go about improving ourselves. I agree that we blew it this time.. I think when it comes to valuing people properly it is only possible to go all-in and have faith.

Fruthermore, I agree that Hoskinson's evaluation of the size of our community, and the popularity of BitShares etc. is probably correct. In fact, from personal observations over the last 3 months I believe that his evaluation is correct.

As I see it, BitShares embodies the spirit of finding solutions and from the perspective of making BitShares a success it does not matter if the problem is with our faulty attitude or with our faulty DPOS code, we just need to fix it and move on.

Still at a loss here how we are losing out...
And I'm still trying to figure out how he got so upset he wanted to leave just because someone said they didn't trust him.  To me, this is feedback Charles should take to heart--especially since it seems that it was HIS leaving the project (and the perception of his actions taken afterwards) that initially created the rift in the first place.  I have no clue how this is the "fault" of the community...I mean are we supposed to be like "Oh thanks so much Charles for gracing us with your presence after bashing bitshares and insinuating you left to join Ethereum and go on a 3-month (unfunded) world-tour.."

Nothing on this thread should have started any of this.  Charles is a very competent mathematician, so it should not be too hard to realize that a very small minority of our community even were here long enough to care either way about his past actions, present motives or future plans...It seems a little silly to "punish" all of them just because some of us (as in me) have been absolute assholes to him in the past.   

I personally do not care if he does it, but out of deep respect for our community I was willing to donate to him for his willingness to work and to help provide some more value for the crypto-educational space itself.