What is the Counter For?

[Empirical1]

Just to add to your list :
Facebook Bitshares likes 3310 vs Eteherum 2576.  There was no official Bitsahres Facebook page when Brian came on board so good job there Brian !!! 

There are definitely improvements in the last month or so. Everything is moving in the right direction. This is  good.

  Great 

[oco101]

Most people come to BitShares via Bitcointalk. There are 6 threads that were created/bumped in the last few weeks. (Someone even tried putting a BitShares announcement in the main section but that was promptly removed.)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.0           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=679185.20         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687251.0         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=596970.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678645            (Bitshares AGS crowd funding - less than *4* days until close)


The countdown clock is running on the homepage and of course there's here -  http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

AGS has received over 5500 BTC and 400 000 PTS in donations and has been running over 190 days. So AGS has been probably both one of the most successful and longest running fund-raisers in crypto.

The forum also has over 5000 members, which is more than MSC, XCP & Ethereum's combined. (Though I would say Ethereum has probably been more successful with overall marketing esp. on places like Reddit.)

I agree marketing is weak but I have seen an improvement this last month. BitShares does have a steep learning curve & I agree that though not this year, going into 2015, AGS might take some criticism for being closed/illiquid.   

Edit: I also think there have been threads started on other forums to let people know about BitShares & AGS donations, but I don't visit them so I wouldn't know.

Just to add to your list :
Facebook Bitshares likes 3310 vs Eteherum 2576.  There was no official Bitsahres Facebook page when Brian came on board so good job there Brian !!! 

There are definitely improvements in the last month or so. Everything is moving in the right direction. This is  good.   

[wesphily]

(This post may need to be moved at this point)

I definitely don't deny the effort put into updating people via bitcointalk forum. However, we definitely need to utilize more avenues of media. If you look at top 100 companies you will find that they put their name on everything humanly possible. The reason for this is because they have identified that different people receive messages in different ways. It is impossible to capture your entire audiance in just a few methods.

I plan to update this thread once the skype meeting with Brian has concluded. It is not scheduled yet as it is on me to come up with an agenda for the meeting. I am working on this.

[Empirical1]

Most people come to BitShares via Bitcointalk. There are 6 threads that were created/bumped in the last few weeks. (Someone even tried putting a BitShares announcement in the main section but that was promptly removed.)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.0           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=679185.20         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687251.0         
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=596970.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678645            (Bitshares AGS crowd funding - less than *4* days until close)


The countdown clock is running on the homepage and of course there's here -  http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

AGS has received over 5500 BTC and 400 000 PTS in donations and has been running over 190 days. So AGS has been probably both one of the most successful and longest running fund-raisers in crypto.

The forum also has over 5000 members, which is more than MSC, XCP & Ethereum's combined. (Though I would say Ethereum has probably been more successful with overall marketing esp. on places like Reddit.)

I agree marketing is weak but I have seen an improvement this last month. BitShares does have a steep learning curve & I agree that though not this year, going into 2015, AGS might take some criticism for being closed/illiquid.   

Edit: I also think there have been threads started on other forums to let people know about BitShares & AGS donations, but I don't visit them so I wouldn't know.

[wesphily]

Not sure if you are comparing me to the people that live in the sand or, if you are complimenting the marketing guy for those charities. Clearly, everybody in the audience knew what he was talking about or they would not have laughed. That is because everybody in the audience has heard in some way about hungry people in foreign countries. Most likely, they've seen the same commercials.

Either way, Brian responded to my email postively which is great! I am going to be putting a list together so that we can have a focused conversation. Thanks to everybody for your assistance!

[NewMine]

http://youtu.be/P0q4o58pKwA

[wesphily]

My email to Brian.

Hello Brian,


I understand that several people have been complaining about various things. I am not emailing you to tell you how to do your job. If bitshares chose you then there must be a good reason as they are incredibly smart people. Instead, I want to explain my journey today so that you may make the bitshares experience many times better for the average user.


Today, I decided to figure out what the counter was for on the forum. I originally thought that it was for a snapshot like the previous counter was for. I was not sure what snapshot it was for though. So, I decided to try to figure it out. I googled it. I searched the forums for it. Finally, I decided to post on the forums.


My original post was to determine what the counter was for. The first few posts were posts that I expected. They did not clearly identify the question I was asking nor did they answer it. I asked the question several different ways until finally somebody stated that it was for a share in all future DAC's. This lead me to the question "Why isn't this being blown up like the 4th of July?"


Everybody's initial response was "Marketing." People kept saying that bitshares was not exploiting all means of media to get the word out about the final AGS donations. Others stated that it was a difficult idea to understand/express. Three pages later I was able to understand two things.


The counter is for the final AGS donations and, bitshares is not expressing its ideas in an easily understandable format. If the average user has to go through what I went through to discover these two things then they most likely will never understand bitshares. I don't want this to happen!


Below is a quick brainstorm of things I could think of. These are some of the things that the marketing director thought of for the company I work at. Feel free to use, abuse, or ignore.


Please consider utilizing other media outlets to express the ideas of bitshares. News articles, analog radio shows, and maybe a dedicated section on the forum that is soley dedicated to videos explaining everything. I realize that there are videos in various places about various things but that is difficult! http://bitshares.org/blog/   https://www.facebook.com/officialbitshares    https://twitter.com/_bitshares  These are awesome! Maybe it should be in the signature of the main players so that people are more aware of it? Press release subforum needs to be more active and exciting. More articles need to appear on major crypto coin news websites. More "C" level explanations need to be created of the ideas and technologies.


In conclusion, I did not wake up today expecting to end it with an email to the marketing director at bitshares. I hope that my journey will help you to understand what the average person runs into when trying to discover bitshares. I hope that then helps you to better market bitshares for success.


Sincerely,

Phillip (aka wesphily)

[wesphily]

So as stated before, bitshares desperately needs to improve marketing. I don't know who heads this department up (if anybody) but, somebody definitely needs to own this issue and resolve it.

brian@bitshares.org if you have specific suggestions. He's owning it but his background is outside of the crypto space which is why I think we'll do better when we're out of the "nerds only" phase

I'll do it! Thanks.

[toast]

So as stated before, bitshares desperately needs to improve marketing. I don't know who heads this department up (if anybody) but, somebody definitely needs to own this issue and resolve it.

brian@bitshares.org if you have specific suggestions. He's owning it but his background is outside of the crypto space which is why I think we'll do better when we're out of the "nerds only" phase

[wesphily]

I work in IT at a high level so I can definitely appreciate the difficulty of translating/expressing ideas that most people don't understand. More specifically, I am almost always talking to a "C" level person (CEO/CIO/COO) when explaining various things. I once had to explain to a person how to use windows 8. This person had never used a computer in her entire life. I was able to complete this task in 1 hour. Below is a link to a person who explained cyber warfare and, recent revolutionary changes that make it more efficient. He was able to do this in a way that everybody in the audiance was able to understand.
http://www.ted.com/talks/chris_domas_the_1s_and_0s_behind_cyber_warfare

I say all of this because I know that there is always a way to make a difficult idea understandable to the average person. This leads me back to marketing. Every time I have to explain a new technology to a "C" level I have to be able to market it in a way that they will understand. If I speak too technical then they will feel stupid and not really listen. If I don't explain the features well then they will see it useless and not buy it. If I market it good enough then they understand that value and easily make the decision to invest.

So as stated before, bitshares desperately needs to improve marketing. I don't know who heads this department up (if anybody) but, somebody definitely needs to own this issue and resolve it.

[gamey]

Marketing will need to improve for all of that to happen. Otherwise, people will not understand why they should even bother with pts when bts-x exists!? Also, I think time expectation of 1 month to double is optimistic. (hopefully I am wrong though!)

Edit: I did not set out to discover that marketing was such a big problem with bitshares. What a strange conclusion.

I think there are a couple of problems that aren't the fault of the marketers that make the job difficult.

1) Large product line that is completely novel and complex.  It is hard to define.  Solaaire said the message is muddled.  I'm not sure.  I think the alternative to being muddled is just to leave things out.  As it is no one even mentions kehotee.

2) Unreleased products.  It isn't so easy to market these things.  Especially with the high level of innovation and the R&D that causes the product to rapidly change while evolving.

BTW I think that the push for marketing via forums has had a measurable effect.  Just look at the donation trends to AGS starting 15 days from the last day.  Sure it is a drop in the bucket, but I don't think the effort involved was anywhere on the scale of a regular marketing approach.  The goal was just to make people aware who had somehow let it slip by them. Those who are passionate crypto-enthusiasts or new to the scene since the original hype faded.  It is all the network effect..  they might just reel in that one pivotal person.  No one knows these things.

[wesphily]

I definitely do not discredit the success of bitshares. Please do not hear me say that. When Stan said something about "an advantage for those that researched," it sparked all those questions. It is a curse I have. I'll assume he meant in general which I agree.

So my final conclusion is that ags finale was not marketed well. This was not on purpose. It was just something that was done poorly. Things are being done to improve this but, nothing is being done that can resolve the immediate issue. (lack of people understanding what the last ags is for and that it is the last ags.) I would guess that it would be difficult to resolve this with so little time. Is this correct?

Assuming the next month BitShares-PTS will double it's price it is a way better investment in future DACs compared with AGS on these prices...

Why could it be a better investment?
because:
1.After AGS fundraising, the demand of BitShares-PTS will increase because it's the only method to participate in future DACs after 200 Days donation's end.
2.It will upgraded to DPOS chain technology  + TITAN etc.
3.BitSharesX will launch, and it will be the best promotion for any "product" related to I3
4.DACs snapshots will be announced soon... so what do you expect to happen with PTS after such announcements?
5.They are liquid!
6.etc......

Marketing will need to improve for all of that to happen. Otherwise, people will not understand why they should even bother with pts when bts-x exists!? Also, I think time expectation of 1 month to double is optimistic. (hopefully I am wrong though!)

Edit: I did not set out to discover that marketing was such a big problem with bitshares. What a strange conclusion.

[liondani]

I definitely do not discredit the success of bitshares. Please do not hear me say that. When Stan said something about "an advantage for those that researched," it sparked all those questions. It is a curse I have. I'll assume he meant in general which I agree.

So my final conclusion is that ags finale was not marketed well. This was not on purpose. It was just something that was done poorly. Things are being done to improve this but, nothing is being done that can resolve the immediate issue. (lack of people understanding what the last ags is for and that it is the last ags.) I would guess that it would be difficult to resolve this with so little time. Is this correct?

Assuming the next month BitShares-PTS will double it's price it is a way better investment in future DACs compared with AGS on these prices...

Why could it be a better investment?
because:
1.After AGS fundraising, the demand of BitShares-PTS will increase because it's the only method to participate in future DACs after 200 Days donation's end.
2.It will upgraded to DPOS chain technology  + TITAN etc.
3.BitSharesX will launch, and it will be the best promotion for any "product" related to I3
4.DACs snapshots will be announced soon... so what do you expect to happen with PTS after such announcements?
5.They are liquid!
6.etc......

[solaaire]

I think you nailed it wesphilly.

There have been posts regarding AGS on BTT, reddit, these forum, and on the official website for months. This information has been updated and published once again to all of those platforms over the last 2 weeks in order to push this information and make it as public as possible.

But you're right. This seems like it will be the extent of promoting AGS before the deadline, and I'm pretty dubious of it's effectiveness.  Leveraging online communities to spread a message can be very effective... but what's the message? Frankly, it's scattered, unclear, and confusing. So that's what the community spreads, a muddled message. It is no surprise that some interested parties lost interest because they were either confused or skeptical, but either way they give up in frustration.

There's a lot to learn about just AGS, let alone the entire BitShares ecosystem. It's complex, overwhelming, and unintuitive. Most new, groundbreaking technologies are. The challenge is to make the applications of these technologies easy to understand, and more importantly, desirable. I had read more about BitShares than I ever read any of my textbooks in college. A hefty  time investment is required, and that investment is the only reason many of us on this message board understand the applications of BitShares... or at least some of the implications of the applications 

But that's insane, and one cannot expect everyone to do that. And they should not have to. We needed messaging that was clear and stupid easy to understand and it just wasn't there, and it still isn't.

Sure, we might be able to look at all of the money raised and deem it a success. And to be sure, as a whole, AGS has been successful. Unfortunately, I cannot help but think that AGS would have greatly benefited from a more coherent marketing push, at least on the western front.

[wesphily]

I definitely do not discredit the success of bitshares. Please do not hear me say that. When Stan said something about "an advantage for those that researched," it sparked all those questions. It is a curse I have. I'll assume he meant in general which I agree.

So my final conclusion is that ags finale was not marketed well. This was not on purpose. It was just something that was done poorly. Things are being done to improve this but, nothing is being done that can resolve the immdiate issue. (lack of people understading what the last ags is for and that it is the last ags.) I would guess that it would be difficult to resolve this with so little time. Is this correct?

[CLains]

1) Yes we have not been getting the word out as much as we could have. Self-critique is admitted at this point, we are trying to improve as much as we can currently. Some of us have tried a little extra hard this past two weeks, but it is difficult to educate on a complex idea amid the billions of altcoins and other projects competing for attention.
2) Donations have added up to almost 7 million dollars in AGS alone, before the release of any BitShares product. By any measure of success in the crypto space we have succeeded.
3) Most people are interested in BitShares X, which is currently up for pretrading at Bter.com and BTC38.com at a marketcap around 25 million dollars, placing us at 7th place among all cryptos as listed by coinmarketcap.com

Thus, it is clear that a lot of people are in the know about what's up. And I have to say, NXT is an awesome project, but this IPO is not like NXT where 20 BTC or whatever priced the whole thing, with no transparency beforehand to evaluate the project/investment. Here the process has been completely transparent, and the whole IPO has taken more than half a year of PTS mining, buying, and months and months of AGS donations pricing this whole project very accurately (50 000+ BTC).

[toast]

Well then it is as I thought? No huge push will be made to make all of this as public as possible? The idea is to give those who are willing to go searching an advantage? Nothing will be done to discredit "premine 2.0" type comments?

I put question marks because I don't want you to think i'm attacking with statements or making up facts that may not be true.

There has been as big a push as we were able. The fact that is not very big is because we're not good at it, not because we're not trying.
Stan was just trying to give counter-arguments to the premine-2.0 argument, not saying that we did a good job with our push or that we didn't try one.

[wesphily]

Well then it is as I thought? No huge push will be made to make all of this as public as possible? The idea is to give those who are willing to go searching an advantage? Nothing will be done to discredit "premine 2.0" type comments?

I put question marks because I don't want you to think i'm attacking with statements or making up facts that may not be true.

[Stan]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

Our marketing blows, it's pretty simple. 2 weeks ago we got a task force put together after a "crisis management" meeting and they produced more educational content in 1 week than had been made the last few months. AGS donations picked up about 1.5x after that was done.

Trust me, nobody is trying to depress AGS donations, the threat of it not being considered a legitimate/"fair" distribution is really bad.

I thought this bitcointalk answer pretty well dispatched that complaint:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.msg7800228#msg7800228

It's key point quoted here:

PTS had already been mining a while and AGS had been running nearly 60 days by the time of the snapshot. It raised a few thousand BTC so it was one of the most public, longest & successful allotments to date.

This 'main product' you pretend they privately/quickly allotted themselves is pre-trading now on BTC38 & bter under the symbol 'BTSX' for circa 34000 BTC CAP! You can buy in now for less than what they were paying at the snapshot! Plus you haven't had to have your money tied up since Feb!?

A link to BitShares has been on the first page at coinmarketcap.com for over 7 months!  Any serious investor has to have noticed BitShares and investigated, or they are simply not serious. 

I am pleased to see those who did their homework and trusted their own thinking have an advantage. 

Knowledge is the ultimate proof of work.  

[wesphily]

Ah ok. Now I understand. I also agree that lots of people will probably say that. They may not all be fud but, I definitely see people using it as such "premine 2.0."

Should something be done to try to prevent this? Is that already being done? Should we continue as is and hope that the product makes the value despite the fud?

[gamey]

My OP was not FUD. Not sure how you can welcome questions and then call them fud.

This is fair criticism.  I liked most of your questions.  However, the whole "No one blasted this out because everyone wanted to get a good deal on AGS" (paraphrase) is something we will likely hear going forward to create FUD.  This is the only thing I was referring to.  My bad for not being clear.

I'm not saying that was your intention, but this line of thought will be used to attack AGS.  I'm very blunt.  Don't be offended.

[wesphily]

OP was definitely answered.

Other questions were just thoughts I had as a result of the OP answers.

[gamey]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

The main purpose of this thread was to figure out what the current count down was for. I have determined that it is for DACs that do not exist yet. Also, they are not actively being worked on due to the focus on being on bitshare x. Once that is done then the rest will follow. (if that is not right then feel free to change. I don't plan to argue)

However, the thread then morphed because a million thoughts shot out of my head. I still don't know that 100% real answer (doubt anybody but the big wigs really do) but, that is ok. My OP question was answered as close to clear as I think we can get at this time.

Finally, I realize that you guys are constantly getting attacked which makes it hard to determine when something is an attack and when it is not. I was not trying to attack. I just kept having thoughts to which I was hoping to get answers. The hard questions I have i'll keep to myself as I know I'd never get the true answer or, I'd never have a way of confirming the rtrue answer if it was given. (truth dac needed?)

You're very right about a lot of things.  I think Invictus etc realizes they could have done things differently.  It is a lot easier with hindsight.  They adapt though and rapidly change with constructive criticism.  I feel like they've addressed some of the issues you have been complaining about.  Look at the BItShares wiki wiki.bitshares.org.  It is not as professional as bitshares.org but has more information.  That is something they've recently supported to make up for the lack of information.  Perhaps the forum needs a link to wiki.bitshares.org at the top ?  The wiki would answer all your AGS questions and likely any other question you have.

[wesphily]

With all that said, I ask why do you care?  At this point, you get what you get here, and that is a lot of pumping from the regulars and then they gather pitchforks for any who speaks up or questions.  See most recently super3's thread and then AdamBLevine's posts and CharlesHoskinson. I agree with your concerns outside of the AGS donation, because I could care less how many more people donate or not.

This is misleading as to what goes on.  Obviously there are fanboys.  If you have the right stuff, you better have fanboys.  Most people do not jump all over sincere questions.  One of the biggest reasons I came here is because Dan *invites* questions.  He wants to be challenged.  I actually felt like I am being listened to.

Even if Dan isn't the smartest guy, he is surrounding himself with really sharp guys and has a very open mind.  No bullshit rule by committee, just a man who doesn't seem to have ego problems trying to find the best solution.  This to me seems like a damn good recipe for success.

As far as what CH and ABL have said, I would suggest you look at their critiques.  CH was treated well until one person said something negative and he started to imply a threat to remove the support that he came here to initiate.  That was one person out of a user base of 5k.  I don't care to bring this up, because those threads are behind us and have no positive value going forward.

Also, as an investor in AGS, you should care how many people donate.  The more people who donated to AGS, the more authenticity it will have going forward.  We're already starting to hear the "Wait, I didn't know anything about this." FUD.  See this thread for example.

My OP was not FUD. Not sure how you can welcome questions and then call them fud.

[toast]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

Our marketing blows, it's pretty simple. 2 weeks ago we got a task force put together after a "crisis management" meeting and they produced more educational content in 1 week than had been made the last few months. AGS donations picked up about 1.5x after that was done.

Trust me, nobody is trying to depress AGS donations, the threat of it not being considered a legitimate/"fair" distribution is really bad.

[gamey]

With all that said, I ask why do you care?  At this point, you get what you get here, and that is a lot of pumping from the regulars and then they gather pitchforks for any who speaks up or questions.  See most recently super3's thread and then AdamBLevine's posts and CharlesHoskinson. I agree with your concerns outside of the AGS donation, because I could care less how many more people donate or not.

This is misleading as to what goes on.  Obviously there are fanboys.  If you have the right stuff, you better have fanboys.  Most people do not jump all over sincere questions.  One of the biggest reasons I came here is because Dan *invites* questions.  He wants to be challenged.  I actually felt like I am being listened to.

Even if Dan isn't the smartest guy, he is surrounding himself with really sharp guys and has a very open mind.  No bullshit rule by committee, just a man who doesn't seem to have ego problems trying to find the best solution.  This to me seems like a damn good recipe for success.

As far as what CH and ABL have said, I would suggest you look at their critiques.  CH was treated well until one person said something negative and he started to imply a threat to remove the support that he came here to initiate.  That was one person out of a user base of 5k.  I don't care to bring this up, because those threads are behind us and have no positive value going forward.

Also, as an investor in AGS, you should care how many people donate.  The more people who donated to AGS, the more authenticity it will have going forward.  We're already starting to hear the "Wait, I didn't know anything about this." FUD.  See this thread for example. 

[wesphily]

I am just trying to understand why something so huge has so little marketed. If the answer is that it was not marketed well then fine. If the answer is that it was on purpose to maximize profit of ags/pts then great caused i'm positioned that way.

The main purpose of this thread was to figure out what the current count down was for. I have determined that it is for DACs that do not exist yet. Also, they are not actively being worked on due to the focus on being on bitshare x. Once that is done then the rest will follow. (if that is not right then feel free to change. I don't plan to argue)

However, the thread then morphed because a million thoughts shot out of my head. I still don't know that 100% real answer (doubt anybody but the big wigs really do) but, that is ok. My OP question was answered as close to clear as I think we can get at this time.

Finally, I realize that you guys are constantly getting attacked which makes it hard to determine when something is an attack and when it is not. I was not trying to attack. I just kept having thoughts to which I was hoping to get answers. The hard questions I have i'll keep to myself as I know I'd never get the true answer or, I'd never have a way of confirming the rtrue answer if it was given. (truth dac needed?)

[NewMine]

Give it up.

You might be right. Investors who are still investing would of course want fewer people to know about the end date because they do get "more bang for their buck".  PTS holders will also want fewer to know as it means after AGS closes, PTS is the only way in for the time being.

Why Invictus or whatever the company is now doesn't trumpet this closing across the interwebs is a testament to either all their resources are in BTSX at the moment, or they lack in marketing as you suggested? More donations would definitely benefit their Company.

The marketing director has been called out by many and a public push to fire him was also made. Even in the hindsight of the marketing teams less than mediocre marketing abilities, they have done nothing to improve the situation or alter the negative perceptions by changing one thing.

With all that said, I ask why do you care?  At this point, you get what you get here, and that is a lot of pumping from the regulars and then they gather pitchforks for any who speaks up or questions.  See most recently super3's thread and then AdamBLevine's posts and CharlesHoskinson. I agree with your concerns outside of the AGS donation, because I could care less how many more people donate or not.

[liondani]

I'm just trying to understand why this isn't being blown up like the fourth of july. It is easy to see in the markets that people truly don't understand what will happen. The alternative is that they do understand but, nobody believes in bitshares. It is hard for me to believe that nobody believes in bitshares due to the sheer knowledge/expertise that the developers bring. So, my guess is that they don't understand and/or don't know. I then have to wonder why that is.

Were there radio shows, news articles online, news paper articles, etc..?  If not then it was marketed well.

A lot of individuals have lost trust because BitSharesX was not out idles of March like expected...
The majority didn't understand how importand and revolutionary it will be that BitSharesX will come out with the new DPOS chain technology (and many other futures like TITAN etc.)...now  they want to see it out before they invest, it will be something like a trust-indicator that future DACs will also successfully live under the new DPOS chain technology...It is human nature to fear the future when something totaly new/unknown is expected.Everything will change after BitSharesX is out, the public will experience something unexpected ... something that never before happenend... BitShares will build trust again,  everybody will know about BitShares... it's not the end.... it's the beginning...

[friendsofbitshares]

You first seemed to imply it was a concerted effort to keep it quiet.  Now you've moved on towards the marketing guy.    I smell a sock puppet.  Google 'friendsofbitshares' and there are  pages of hits all from the past 2 weeks.  Yes a lot more could have been done, but I'm not sure at what effectiveness.


Reddit allows tyranny by the majority so it is hard to get the right demographic without a lot of supporters timing their upvotes.
Some forums don't have working signups, some crypto forums have no place to discuss off topic.  Bitcointalk which actively encourages free speech is where we have posted on a lot.  Outside of nxtforum and darkcoin most of the posts were ignored.  At other places the posts could be bumped, but I personally see it as being rude if no one responds to the first one.

[wesphily]

I'm just trying to understand why this isn't being blown up like the fourth of july. It is easy to see in the markets that people truly don't understand what will happen. The alternative is that they do understand but, nobody believes in bitshares. It is hard for me to believe that nobody believes in bitshares due to the sheer knowledge/expertise that the developers bring. So, my guess is that they don't understand and/or don't know. I then have to wonder why that is.

Were there radio shows, news articles online, news paper articles, ect..?  EDIT for English: If these things didn't happen then there was a lack of marketing.

[liondani]

It is to late now but it would be better except the count down counter on the home page
to hear at the same time a speaker that makes the count down 

something like this:
http://youtu.be/zRGeLQkWuYk


PS maybe then, they would notice... 

[friendsofbitshares]

The countdown is to the end of AGS donations, not to a snapshot.

So for which DAC is the "snapshot"? For every future DAC that honors AGS.

Some in the pipeline include the DNS DAC, the lotto DAC, the voting DAC.

Yup. So AGS donars are banking on people not understanding this so that they get the best bang for their buck on ags and, their pts holdings increase when people find out it is too late for ags. (directly or indirectly)

EDIT: Makes better sense why people wouldn't want to blast out hard about the end of ags.

We've been blastin' out hard for the final 2 weeks.  Everyone who has been longer had as much time as they needed to donate at the best rates.

Hmmmm. I would expect to see more active posts about something this important. I would expect to be able to google "Bitshares End of AGS" and return hits from all crypto websites. Of course, I fail at google so it is entirely possible that it is all there and I am just missing it.

This is me with a custom mixtape about Bitshares just the other day.

[biophil]

The countdown is to the end of AGS donations, not to a snapshot.

So for which DAC is the "snapshot"? For every future DAC that honors AGS.

Some in the pipeline include the DNS DAC, the lotto DAC, the voting DAC.

Yup. So AGS donars are banking on people not understanding this so that they get the best bang for their buck on ags and, their pts holdings increase when people find out it is too late for ags. (directly or indirectly)

EDIT: Makes better sense why people wouldn't want to blast out hard about the end of ags.

The counter on the front page of the forum says "till the last day of AGS donations." That is completely literal. When the counter hits zero, AGS is closed forever.

Sorry that you felt we weren't spelling it out to you clearly enough; it just didn't occur to us that "the last day of AGS donations" wouldn't make sense to you, so we went round and round trying to help you understand how AGS worked.

Also, you seem to think that we're being hush-hush about donations ending. That's not true at all! It's just classic Bitshares lack-of-effective-marketing.

[wesphily]

The countdown is to the end of AGS donations, not to a snapshot.

So for which DAC is the "snapshot"? For every future DAC that honors AGS.

Some in the pipeline include the DNS DAC, the lotto DAC, the voting DAC.

Yup. So AGS donars are banking on people not understanding this so that they get the best bang for their buck on ags and, their pts holdings increase when people find out it is too late for ags. (directly or indirectly)

EDIT: Makes better sense why people wouldn't want to blast out hard about the end of ags.

We've been blastin' out hard for the final 2 weeks.  Everyone who has been longer had as much time as they needed to donate at the best rates.

Hmmmm. I would expect to see more active posts about something this important. I would expect to be able to google "Bitshares End of AGS" and return hits from all crypto websites. Of course, I fail at google so it is entirely possible that it is all there and I am just missing it.

[friendsofbitshares]

The countdown is to the end of AGS donations, not to a snapshot.

So for which DAC is the "snapshot"? For every future DAC that honors AGS.

Some in the pipeline include the DNS DAC, the lotto DAC, the voting DAC.

Yup. So AGS donars are banking on people not understanding this so that they get the best bang for their buck on ags and, their pts holdings increase when people find out it is too late for ags. (directly or indirectly)

EDIT: Makes better sense why people wouldn't want to blast out hard about the end of ags.

We've been blastin' out hard for the final 2 weeks.  Everyone who has been longer had as much time as they needed to donate at the best rates. 

[wesphily]

The countdown is to the end of AGS donations, not to a snapshot.

So for which DAC is the "snapshot"? For every future DAC that honors AGS.

Some in the pipeline include the DNS DAC, the lotto DAC, the voting DAC.

Yup. So AGS donars are banking on people not understanding this so that they get the best bang for their buck on ags and, their pts holdings increase when people find out it is too late for ags. (directly or indirectly)

EDIT: Makes better sense why people wouldn't want to blast out hard about the end of ags.

[toast]

The countdown is to the end of AGS donations, not to a snapshot.

So for which DAC is the "snapshot"? For every future DAC that honors AGS.

Some in the pipeline include the DNS DAC, the lotto DAC, the voting DAC.

[wesphily]

In a roundabout way you guys answer my question. Basically, we don't know what the ags snapshot is for except that it is for a DAC. What DAC? Nobody knows for sure yet?

Would it be safe to summize that ags is the risky and more rewarding path. (risky because it isn't liquid and you have no idea what you will really get back except for some share of a dac that doesn't exist yet.) PTS is the safer less rewarding path? (safer because you can gtfo if you want to.)

[liondani]

"This is your last chance!"

No it is not! You can still buy BitShares-PTS and leave them in your wallet!
Ok you will get 1/3 of future DACS compared with donating for AGS right now, but I am quite sure, because it will be the only chance to participate in future DACs after donation's end's, the price will rise the next days and week's... (+ they are liquid! + DPOS very soon?)

[Stan]

I have been checking the donations nearly everyday since I discovered bitshares around March 2nd...this feels like a monumentally important week to get information out there for donations. "This is your last chance!"

Reminds me of a classic quote:

"Time's up. Had your chance. Muffed it."

-- Lord Scrumptious, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, 1968

 

Seriously, this forum and bitshares.org are full of information, some dating to last Christmas:

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-airdrop-theory/
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3980.msg50093#msg50093
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1863.msg21379#msg21379

[wesphily]

Not sure how that link is supposed to help. It identifies that it is for ags donations and, when it ends. Does not easily identify what it is for. Maybe that is because we don't really know what it is for? I'm sure it will be good but, it is hard to tell.

[gyhy]

see here http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

[wesphily]

That's kinda why I was asking. I don't think anybody trully knows what this snapshot is for. Also, it sounds like this is the last snapshot? I wouldn't say I'm hardcore on knowing everything about bitshares but, I definitely try to read first. If I was unable to arrive at a clear answer then I'm sure others are not able to as well which is why the donations are low. Maybe that is on purpose? People who do understand don't want return to decrease due to high number of donators?

[feedthemcake]

Once Day 200 arrives this week, the state of the donation chains on that day will be used for all other DACs.  So we are counting down to the mega default Snapshot at the End of Time...

The Mayan's can't touch this!

...

As far as AGS donors are concerned, Day 200 might as well be...

The Snapshot at The End of Time

for every remaining BitShares DAC that will ever be released.   Since nothing about AGS will change after that.  Day 200 is the terminal AGS snapshot - regardless of when subsequent DAC PTS snapshots may be announced.

I have been checking the donations nearly everyday since I discovered bitshares around March 2nd...this feels like a monumentally important week to get information out there for donations. "This is your last chance!"

[Stan]

Once Day 200 arrives this week, the state of the donation chains on that day will be used for all other DACs.  So we are counting down to the mega default Snapshot at the End of Time...

The Mayan calendar can't touch this!

...

As far as AGS donors are concerned, Day 200 might as well be...

The Snapshot at The End of Time

for every remaining BitShares DAC that will ever be released.   Since nothing about AGS will change after that.  Day 200 is the terminal AGS snapshot - regardless of when subsequent DAC PTS snapshots may be announced.

[wesphily]

I know what ags is. The last ags snapshot was for bitshares x..............What is this one for?

[biophil]

For what? If a person donates AGS then what do they get a share of?

There is an excellent FAQ on the bitshares website: http://bitshares.org/faq/

The middle column is all about AGS.

[wesphily]

For what? If a person donates AGS then what do they get a share of?

[mitao]

Ags donation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wesphily]

I'm sure I missed something but, what is the counter for on the forum. I think it is for a snapshot but, I am not sure what for. Anybody know?