Author Topic: [canceled] #1 BitShares reward program: Vote for HappyShares and earn BTSX  (Read 9735 times)

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Offline xfund

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I think this (to a certain degree) could be a thread to the system (which also exists in POW/Bitcoin and POS/NXT). If it becomes the primary focus of shareholders to get tx fees as a reward for delegating their vote then we have two effects:
1) the focus when choosing delegates is not anymore primarily on trustworthyness, tx fees destroyed (dividends for all), delegates performance etc. but on how much the delegate give back to his voters.
2) economies of scale then play a role with dpos as with pow and (nxt) pos: The one that can profitably run a delegate and still pay more of the tx fees back to his voters than any other delegate will will the voters, which leads to centralization.
So it comes down to whether shareholders loose more by harming the system and this way themselves than gain from the pay back. The conclusion then would be a low reward for delegates to tweek the above calculation in favor of the system.

Normal mode:choose the 100 delegates from the 1000 delegates,for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;
In FUND game :choose the 14 delegates from the 27 delegates ,for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;reward .

The reward can improve the enthusiasm of retail vote;Why we will focus on retail? Because  they don't care the vote system.

Who will leads to centralization? I think is the dealers .
In addition,everyone can cast opposing votes in any reason.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:32:02 am by xfund »
Asset:FUND

Offline happyshares

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Offline liondani

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By paying 2/3 to all shareholders he has already helped increase the dividend for everyone and providing incentive for people to take some time to actually vote for him. 

 +5%

Offline santaclause102

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I never attacked happyshares personally and rejected the personal attacks towards him. It is likely that he is an honest person. I don't have any other reason to assume anything else. My argument is not against him personally (not at all!) and it is not a gut reaction.

I would appreciate a rational discussion here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966

What we would need is a comparison of potential gains and potential losses for the individual shareholder and how likely both are. How much would be the pay back per day/month/year per voting power of one xts? Then how likely is it that this leads to centralization if such a voting habit becomes legitimate?

The ecosystem doesn't loose anything if pay back delegates are branded as not beneficial to the system. If no pay back delegate takes of right from the start it will be hard for pay back delegates to come along and gain support in the future. This makes the "buy votes" / "offer more pay back" attack way harder!! 
Again this is in no way an attack on happyshares in person! I hope we can keep the personal and the structural level apart in the discussion :)

I do understand that happyshares has build up the infrastructure and all that. Why don't you provide delegate service that destroys tx fees and / pr does marketing via website or..... Obviously you have a lot of qualities there as you said you built a website and all you have written sounds very understandable / nice! 

Offline bytemaster

Happy I appreciate the effort you are putting into the ecosystem and hope things go well for you.    One thing I can say is that compared to bitcoin we already have a ton of people reinvesting their fees/profits into helping the community in what ever way they can.

By paying 2/3 to all shareholders he has already helped increase the dividend for everyone and providing incentive for people to take some time to actually vote for him.   If he provides a reliable service then the network will continue to function. 

Lets not demonize people because of a gut reaction to "vote buying".  After all votes are personal property and if you think you benefit more by giving your vote to happy than by giving it to someone else then that is legitimate. 

I would encourage everyone to drop the personal attacks and instead make the case for why voting for some other delegate is *BETTER* than voting for happy. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline happyshares

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We don't have any reason to assume that happyshares has bad intentions! So we should tread him friendly. The reasons not to vote for happyshare's delegates are structural and not personal.

I appreciate your participation. Have you read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966 ? I am sure you guys could leverage your skills and servers in another way that is actually beneficial for the whole system.

Quote
So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community?
The thing is that you don't add value to the community but to those that voted for you.

Quote
HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns
Why is you account new then?

Thank you delulo.

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Why is you account new then?

We were mediocre surprised that regarding the real bitshares chain everything went so fast.
So we were more focused on developing rather than forum communication.

Quote
Have you read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966 ? I am sure you guys could leverage your skills and servers in another way that is actually beneficial for the whole system.

Very constructive and well-read. We never thought of ending up here as bad guys.
But since we already have sacrificed a lot of time and effort on developing the site and backing logic, we hope to pursue our goal.

Quote
Quote
So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community?
The thing is that you don't add value to the community but to those that voted for you.

HappyShares will have some network effect, which probably will help BitShares and the community to get even more well known.
Beyond that, we are accountable for the idea behind HappyShares.

Well, as announced, with immediate effect we have reduced the pay rate of all our delegates to 33%.

The guys with more than that can follow up or do us a favor and provide a more relaxed atmosphere, so that other ideas can develop.

Offline bitmeat

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I think BM should look into solutions to allow more delegates, or after every 100 blocks allow candidate delegates to produce a block in order to gather stats/prove their worth.

 +5% for something like that!

hope it comes not to late...

It will, he already said he likes the idea, but it's good to let ideas stew for awhile, to find the best approach. I'd rather see a good solution. I think there will be a hard fork at some point for the order book execution, so that would be a good time to introduce a change in it.

Offline liondani

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I think BM should look into solutions to allow more delegates, or after every 100 blocks allow candidate delegates to produce a block in order to gather stats/prove their worth.

 +5% for something like that!

hope it comes not to late...

Offline bitmeat

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happyshares, you may have good intentions, but this fails in principle.

The whole very idea that you are bribing for votes is not cool. At least that's my stance on that.

Granted by reducing my payrate to 5% it is a bit like bribing shareholders, but I'm also increasing the value for all shareholders.

I think BM should look into solutions to allow more delegates, or after every 100 blocks allow candidate delegates to produce a block in order to gather stats/prove their worth.

Offline liondani

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I am not terribly worried about this kind of behavior because market competition to reduce transaction fees will quickly eliminate the potential for profit sharing.

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.

 +5% +5% +5%

Offline santaclause102

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Refreshing guys. What are you afraid? Market strives for effectiveness. So HappyShares will reduce the delegate pay rate appropriately, like others do. At the end of the day delegates and voters need incentive to do what they intended to do - apart from idealistic goals. So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community? To be only a well known forum member operating a delegate seems little benefit in the long run.

HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns. We're crypto enthusiasts following unlike others
the BitShares idea and bytemasters first thoughts since its early days on bitcointalk. Enthusiastic with restrained public participation.
Time will tell.
We don't have any reason to assume that happyshares has bad intentions! So we should tread him friendly. The reasons not to vote for happyshare's delegates are structural and not personal.

I appreciate your participation. Have you read this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78966#msg78966 ? I am sure you guys could leverage your skills and servers in another way that is actually beneficial for the whole system.

Quote
So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community?
The thing is that you don't add value to the community but to those that voted for you.

Quote
HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns
Why is you account new then?

Offline happyshares

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I am known to say what I think so:
Go fuck yourself!
Every vote cast for you is a loss for both the ideas I die for, and the one I have my whole day dedicated  fighting against!

You are welcome!
One cannot ban people taking possibilities the ecosystem offers. They will do.

Offline Simeon II

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I am known to say what I think so:

Go fuck yourself!


Every vote cast for you is a loss for both the ideas I die for, and the one I have my whole day dedicated  fighting against!

Offline happyshares

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Refreshing guys. What are you afraid? Market strives for effectiveness. So HappyShares will reduce the delegate pay rate appropriately, like others do. At the end of the day delegates and voters need incentive to do what they intended to do - apart from idealistic goals. So why should one vote for delegates without  accompanying service and without added value for the community? To be only a well known forum member operating a delegate seems little benefit in the long run.

HappyShares delegates have proven reliability and > 95% uptime during the dryruns. We're crypto enthusiasts following unlike others
the BitShares idea and bytemasters first thoughts since its early days on bitcointalk. Enthusiastic with restrained public participation.
Time will tell.

Offline puppies

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I am not terribly worried about this kind of behavior because market competition to reduce transaction fees will quickly eliminate the potential for profit sharing.

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

H. L. Mencken

https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline CalabiYau

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.
this ignores the inherent freerider problem. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78930#msg78930

O.K. - got it.

Offline Simeon II

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DO NOT VOTE FOR HAPPYSHARES!!!
 +5%

Vote  for delegates that will charge 5-15% fee, and thus will  effectively return the rest 85-95% directly to you immediately.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 12:31:16 am by Simeon II »

Offline Agent86

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DO NOT VOTE FOR HAPPYSHARES!!!
This sockpuppet just registered on the forum yesterday!  Do not trust!!

Offline santaclause102

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I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.
this ignores the inherent freerider problem. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5868.msg78930#msg78930

Offline bytemaster

I am not terribly worried about this kind of behavior because market competition to reduce transaction fees will quickly eliminate the potential for profit sharing.

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline happyshares

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Hi xerox & calabi, thanks for your feedback:

wallet_approve_delegate calabiyau true
wallet_approve_delegate xeroc-delegate-1 true

Offline CalabiYau

voted for your delegates 1 - 10, interested how this works out.
(and for xeroc of course  :)) wallet_approve_delegate xeroc-delegate-1 true
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 10:50:34 am by CalabiYau »

Offline xeroc

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Offline happyshares

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Yes. So long as voters can be tracked this seems to be a problem. Bytemaster halp.

Hi everyone with certain IT skills can track the blockchain and can do, what we're trying to achieve. This is not harmful, since for privacy reasons we don't
allow stats lookup (later)by your public key but your native trx signee address.

Offline happyshares

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How can you tell who has voted for you ?
What if they remove their votes then ?

Hi heyD, here is the answer from a similar post:
The more happyshares delegates you approve, the more you can earn cause the rebate is going to be pro-rated based on everyones votes per delegate.
The current payout limit is 1 BTSX per trx signee address per delegate. So technically speaking we scan the blockchain, calculate all votes for our delegates and map the votings to the respective trx signee address. From this we calculate the shares for every voter. Once the delegate funds are large enough, we automatically pay the rebate to the voters signee address - and you'll be happy.

>> What if they remove their votes then ?

Lets say, we do a payout from block 1 to block 15000, then all your votes in this period determine your share, so your rebate. If you decide to disapprove the happyshares delegates later and we do the next payout, lets say from block 15001 to 30000, other people get payed more since less voters get the approx. same delegate funds.
Hope that helps so far!

Offline happyshares

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I think this (to a certain degree) could be a thread to the system (which also exists in POW/Bitcoin and POS/NXT). If it becomes the primary focus of shareholders to get tx fees as a reward for delegating their vote then we have two effects:
1) the focus when choosing delegates is not anymore primarily on trustworthyness, tx fees destroyed (dividends for all), delegates performance etc. but on how much the delegate give back to his voters.
2) economies of scale then play a role with dpos as with pow and (nxt) pos: The one that can profitably run a delegate and still pay more of the tx fees back to his voters than any other delegate will will the voters, which leads to centralization.
So it comes down to whether shareholders loose more by harming the system and this way themselves than gain from the pay back. The conclusion then would be a low reward for delegates to tweek the above calculation in favor of the system.

Hi, delulo maybe this could be a thread to the system to a certain degree. Since we are focussed on reliability, the first goal for us is to run delegates to make the bitshares ecosystem even stronger. Well, it's a free market and people can decide for themselves. If HappyShares will be successful, the people wanted so.

Offline CLains

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 Yes. So long as voters can be tracked this seems to be a problem. Bytemaster halp.

Offline muse-umum

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How can you tell who has voted for you ?
What if they remove their votes then ?

Offline santaclause102

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I think this (to a certain degree) could be a thread to the system (which also exists in POW/Bitcoin and POS/NXT). If it becomes the primary focus of shareholders to get tx fees as a reward for delegating their vote then we have two effects:
1) the focus when choosing delegates is not anymore primarily on trustworthyness, tx fees destroyed (dividends for all), delegates performance etc. but on how much the delegate give back to his voters.
2) economies of scale then play a role with dpos as with pow and (nxt) pos: The one that can profitably run a delegate and still pay more of the tx fees back to his voters than any other delegate will will the voters, which leads to centralization.
So it comes down to whether shareholders loose more by harming the system and this way themselves than gain from the pay back. The conclusion then would be a low reward for delegates to tweek the above calculation in favor of the system.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 12:29:49 am by delulo »

Offline happyshares

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Hi folks,

at first glance payback delegates seems to be an appealing business idea. Nevertheless i have decided to cancel the HappyShares venture. After long but fruitful conversations with forum members i got the enlightenment, that payback delegates act counterproductive to BitShares health. This decision was all the harder, since the platform was already nearing publication. Taking advantage of our experience we will soon deliver a voting related webtool to the community.
So, in hope that our decision prevents other guys going in the wrong direction, we want to lead by example.

Stay tuned!


Hi community!
We want to introduce HappyShares - the first and #1 BitShares reward program to you. If you vote for our delegates you'll achieve pro-rata profit in BTSX.
With 66% delegate burn rate we increase common shareholder value and strengthen the ecosystem by our reliable cloud-based infrastructure. Beyond that we refund 50% of all delegate revenues back to our voters. A nice site is almost finished, where you can look up your earnings, stats and info.
Online in the next few days. Stay tuned.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 01:26:20 pm by happyshares »