Author Topic: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?  (Read 30917 times)

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Offline bitmeat

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2014, 02:12:48 am »
4) I would want to use a lua scripting engine to validate transactions relative to the SQL database
    a) Ethereum currently runs at 1.3 Mhz with their C++ interpreter, storage access via level db is the most expensive operation right now.
    b) I think the data set should be kept in RAM validated by delegates.   Delegates may need $15K servers at scale, but that should be reasonable.

Good choice! LuaJIT is shown to be faster than C/C++ in various cases:

https://gist.github.com/spion/3049314

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2014, 02:17:28 am »
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I haven't evaluated all options, but clearly it needs to be "in-memory" and dynamic.

Redis is a very nice in memory database. What I'm most interested in is the notion of blockchain sharding.

I've been looking at Redis closely and love the direction it has been going.

It would be amazing if someone comes up with a way to run Redis nodes as a crypto. Think self-hosted, indexed blockchain AND various user data (smart contracts/apps/you name it).

You get StorJ/MaidSAFE + network stability.

Offline yellowecho

Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2014, 05:26:32 am »
Ethereum does not have and never has had a relationship with Goldman Sachs. It's a malicious rumor spread by people who don't like the project. There were two former Goldman Sachs employees helping ethereum during its early days. Both left the bank decades ago. Let this fucking FUD die man.

Cool, I asked out of ignorance not out of disrespect so thanks for responding.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 05:30:31 am by yellowecho »
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Offline yellowecho

Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2014, 05:40:10 am »
We have had some really good discussions that have lead to improvements in both our systems.   The first step is to reach agreement on technical approach and the next step is to work on community buy-in.

Obviously we need to win over Gavin and other Ethereum developers and they are currently not convinced according to V.   Primary argument so far is that DPOS creates 2 classes of users and that it is not "elegant" and is "over specialized for known attacks".

We will be holding a joint meeting with the Eth. devs this week to work through these concerns and attempt to weigh them against the other imperfect alternatives.   

In any event V. and I have plans to meet every couple of weeks for a brainstorming session and hopefully record our discussions as we work through complex issues in the space.

One of the major issues is the need for Merkle trees in chain databases.  There are a lot of trade offs and good discussion that will benefit both of us and the greater community.

This is very exciting news- looking forward to hearing any recordings of the discussions!
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Offline BTCjesus

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2014, 07:04:22 am »


IF these two projects can collaborate I think it would be for the best. Both projects stand to gain tremendously by working together than competing against each other. I would love to invest into both projects if they can find a good common bridge they can build from!

Tuck Fheman

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2014, 07:44:11 am »
This week I am meeting with Vitalik to discuss a partnership between our two projects.  We spent several hours last night and 5 hours to day talking about blockchain technology and challenges we both face.   I am happy to report that we are finding some common ground and are planning more regular collaboration.


Offline cass

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2014, 08:27:55 am »
just amazing  +5%
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline vegolino

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2014, 10:40:26 am »
For me this is a dream come true  :)  +5%

Offline menga

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2014, 10:54:04 am »
What using go and aerospike ( http://www.aerospike.com/  and  http://www.aerospike.com/blog/go-aerospike-a-perfect-match/ ).

Go language ( http://golang.org/ ) has a lot of qualities

* Astonishing performance
* Strong typing
* Asynchronous, multithreaded, multicore programming
* Clear, concise syntax

Ethereum is mainly written in Go.


Offline liondani

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2014, 11:25:41 am »
All I know is that when stuff like this starts happening on a Hot August Night in the deserted streets of Raleigh, NC you get cold fusion, flux capacitors, and warp drives...


dpos is a great upgrade security wise for the blockchain technology...
But what about your personal security on this real world guys?
Hope your photographer is behind you not only to take pictures, but because they are "watching your backs"  ;)


Offline fuzzy

Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2014, 11:31:09 am »


IF these two projects can collaborate I think it would be for the best. Both projects stand to gain tremendously by working together than competing against each other. I would love to invest into both projects if they can find a good common bridge they can build from!

all that has ever bothered me about ethereum was the one chain to rule them all approach, coupled with pow. If they are planning to work with bitshares, perhaps that approach has a chance at abandonment.  At that point id gladly speculate in the project (though it becomes much less of a speculation in thos case).
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline vbuterin

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2014, 12:04:40 pm »
Thanks for the very interesting conversations and day together bitshares team. It was definitely very useful in our thinking on native extensibility strategies; I was glad to see how similar some of our thoughts and some of our problems have been, and I hope my ideas on ring signatures for secret ballots and bitusd interest rates helped :)

(I'm still not convinced of bitusd's long-term viability without introducing schellingcoin or delegate price feeds + dynamic interest rates, but it's a very exciting experiment and I'll be glad to be wrong if it succeeds!)

I have no particular love for PoW; the ASIC-resistant PoW algo that Vlad is working on with a few others right now is looking great, but I have a few worries in the back of my mind about its long-term viability. I think that most chains which try to have both PoW and finite supply may be living on borrowed time, as we have seen with dogecoin once it very quickly got close to its maximum it had too little hashpower to maintain itself. Gav agrees that moving beyond PoW is optimal; we're currently looking at hybrid transactions-as-PoS, and I like many aspects of DPOS and I really respect the long amount of effort and thought that led to it, although I can also see how it comes from a somewhat different philosophy than the one we're used to.

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interesting. i also read that vitalik also had talks with arthur britto of ripple labs.

News flash: the core teams of most of the so-called "competing" 2.0 projects are actually on pretty good terms with each other. We all want to be complementary. I think Ripple is doing great work on setting up bridges between crypto and fiat and Codius is interesting technology and could be quite nicely integrated into ethereum. There are a couple bad actors that are quite hostile to anything that does not entrench BTC as the one cryptotoken to rule them all™, but we've had open communication with most of the major groups; Bitshares is the one we haven't yet and I am glad that we have started to break the ice there.

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That's great, now you need to talk to the person actually in charge of Ethereum- Dr. Wood.

Gav isn't "actually in charge" more so than myself, but any major protocol change does indeed require consensus among myself, Gav and Jeff and of course the community. I only speak for myself.

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Effectively my goal is to make both projects better and to secure AGS/PTS holders a stake in Ether

Just to make this absolutely clear, as Dan said later on in the thread, we have not formally discussed allocations. Speaking generally, no formal commitments at this point have been made by anyone about anything; the things that Dan listed as topics we discussed are just topics we discussed. I as an individual could see something being reasonable if it substitutes a portion of the mining allocation so our annual issuance never exceeds 0.26x the genesis quantity, and is a finite one-time allocation and not a permanent annual dividend, but I strongly respect the feelings of the community, other developers on the project and potential legal issues.

If we are going for a paradigm where developers can extend ethereum in exchange for ether allocation, it would be ideal to follow our philosophy of generalization and not just special-case one team but explicitly say "this is the social contract: anyone can release a version of ethereum N.0 for N>1 by making their own additions and giving 0.26x minus mining fees since N-1.0 to their own communities as they deem fit, and if the community deems any implementation technically bad or unfair they can reject it and keep building on the previous instead kinda like a blockchain".
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 02:04:36 pm by vbuterin »

Offline Gentso1

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2014, 12:27:47 pm »
For all the differences  the projects have I believe you have even more in common. You guys seem to agree on many items in principle its just the way you are attempting to solve the problems that are different. The above photo of you two just walking and talking, working to solve the issue's that both platforms are working towards is truly great.

I don't claim to know all the in's and out's of all the technology being used by both parties but when 2 very intelligent minds can get together and both be excited about the meeting and pull away problem solving ideas in just 1 night........imagine what 2 great teams could do working with each other on a daily basis, or better yet re imagine it ;D.

(cliff notes, this is some unicorn,Philosopher's stone, pot of gold at the end of the rainbow shit)

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2014, 03:45:15 pm »
Someone in the Peercoin Reddit sub just posted this. He's suggesting that Dan, Vitalik, and Sunny work together. Whether that happens or not, this thread is good exposure for Bitshares on the Peercoin sub. Please chime in with your best group hug:

http://www.reddit.com/r/peercoin/comments/2dq2wi/bitshares_and_ethereum_are_considering/

Offline Technologov

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Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership?
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2014, 03:46:40 pm »
The main objection and concern I have for Proof-Of-Stake, is that it disallows mining.
It is impossible to mine NXT coin, for example,  if you don't own any.
This blocks the community from growth.