Author Topic: BitShares & Stellar Partnership Thread : BeyondBitcoinX Dev Hangout  (Read 4375 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lucky331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
I think ripplelabs is a much better ally than stellar. Stellar is basically a ripoff of 2 years of development by Ripple Labs. ripple labs only problem is actually Jed in the first place, that use his 10% stake in XRP to manipulate the market and as leverage against RL to try and find success with stellar. the other 70b ripple that RL hold is in good hands. They believe in the ripple and are committed to furthering the protocol and forming partnerships with pre-existing financial institutions. so far: Gold bullion international and Fidor bank.

Perhaps we can chat about this a little bit over the course of the coming weeks in our Dev Hangout Sessions.  I am not a Ripple expert, but I do feel on a (somewhat informed) gut level that Ripples philosophy seems at odds with what crypto was meant to do.  Then again, I am only one man--and flawed--so it is important to see others' opinions here.  Thanks for keeping this thread alive!

of course any ripple supporter would want you to partner with ripple labs.  i support both, but stellar is the way to go.

Offline lucky331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
The starting point is for BitShares to try to build a few native gateways for BTS and fiat to move funds in an out of its network.  The big problem will not be technical but with compliance.  Gateways need banking relationships because they are businesses.  And banks will be very reluctant to serve a gateway that can move funds into an anonymous network like BitShares.  No Ripple gateway will want to lose its banker by acting as a BitShares gateway.

So the next alternative will be to build an automatic gateway BTSX gateway to move BTSX into the Ripple Network where it can be traded for USD.  How might you do that?  It's not too difficult.  Just copy btc2ripple.com.  They did it for Bitcoin and it works great.  Now you will have a cash in/out mechanism.  I'd suggest automating the entire process and make it trustless (almost) by using a Codius contract.  Codius is another open source Ripple project.

With an automatic gateway between BitShares and Ripple you'll find that liquidity in one is liquidity in both.

or something like https://doge-gate.com

set up an order book for bitUSD/STR, and it's good to go.  once you convert then hold STR you can cash out from any gateway.

Offline x.ebit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Delegate x.ebit, rose.ebit
Founder of BitRose

Offline vegolino

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Reality is Information
    • View Profile
Why do we have to pick one? Both can accept BitUSD. They are not exclusive, IMHO.
+5%

Offline gulu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Why do we have to pick one? Both can accept BitUSD. They are not exclusive, IMHO.
BTC: 1FRsgcQELHKFY2VMFosBnyBaNxZgS4wj7x
PTS: Pf9yDYUknXShepu6YjwSEpMvm1ewNQLNgE
BTSX: gulu

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
I created a Facebook account just to get some Stellar ... it didn't go as planned.

ProTip : If you hate Facebook as much as I do and only venture there for some free Stellar, DO NOT attempt to register your FB account with Stellar prior to obtaining some "friends" on Facebook. My account was flagged as a spam account by the Stellar app and I received zero Stellar, but did receive plenty of spam from Facebook. =/

I see the positive side from what I read here....

Offline celticwarrior72

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
The starting point is for BitShares to try to build a few native gateways for BTS and fiat to move funds in an out of its network.  The big problem will not be technical but with compliance.  Gateways need banking relationships because they are businesses.  And banks will be very reluctant to serve a gateway that can move funds into an anonymous network like BitShares.  No Ripple gateway will want to lose its banker by acting as a BitShares gateway.

So the next alternative will be to build an automatic gateway BTSX gateway to move BTSX into the Ripple Network where it can be traded for USD.  How might you do that?  It's not too difficult.  Just copy btc2ripple.com.  They did it for Bitcoin and it works great.  Now you will have a cash in/out mechanism.  I'd suggest automating the entire process and make it trustless (almost) by using a Codius contract.  Codius is another open source Ripple project.

With an automatic gateway between BitShares and Ripple you'll find that liquidity in one is liquidity in both.

Offline Btc38

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
BTC38: One step a footprint is true

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
I think the initial distribution of Stellar is a very important factor to consider here when compared to Ripple. That and Ripple in general isn't very well liked in the crypto-community from what I have seen. Generally seen as too centralised to really add to the crypto-economy.

Centralized is what you want though to interface with regulators. If Ripple has more social connections to the finance / gov then we should go with them if we are looking for Gateways.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline mrbildo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
I think the initial distribution of Stellar is a very important factor to consider here when compared to Ripple. That and Ripple in general isn't very well liked in the crypto-community from what I have seen. Generally seen as too centralised to really add to the crypto-economy.

Offline fuzzy

I think ripplelabs is a much better ally than stellar. Stellar is basically a ripoff of 2 years of development by Ripple Labs. ripple labs only problem is actually Jed in the first place, that use his 10% stake in XRP to manipulate the market and as leverage against RL to try and find success with stellar. the other 70b ripple that RL hold is in good hands. They believe in the ripple and are committed to furthering the protocol and forming partnerships with pre-existing financial institutions. so far: Gold bullion international and Fidor bank.

Perhaps we can chat about this a little bit over the course of the coming weeks in our Dev Hangout Sessions.  I am not a Ripple expert, but I do feel on a (somewhat informed) gut level that Ripples philosophy seems at odds with what crypto was meant to do.  Then again, I am only one man--and flawed--so it is important to see others' opinions here.  Thanks for keeping this thread alive!
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline ag

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
I think ripplelabs is a much better ally than stellar. Stellar is basically a ripoff of 2 years of development by Ripple Labs. ripple labs only problem is actually Jed in the first place, that use his 10% stake in XRP to manipulate the market and as leverage against RL to try and find success with stellar. the other 70b ripple that RL hold is in good hands. They believe in the ripple and are committed to furthering the protocol and forming partnerships with pre-existing financial institutions. so far: Gold bullion international and Fidor bank.

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
I'm ignorant on that matter as i'm not familiar to how ripple works, so bare with me, but aren't those gateways replicable? cant someone do the same? cant we do the same? or use that as a foundation for something even better?

The idea I like is not having to replicate the gateways.  We could simply create a bridge between ripple and BTSX.  People would be able to deposit on coinbase, and then rather than go to an exchange and buy BTC then buy BTSX and then buy BitUSD, they could send their coinbase dollars straight to a bridge that would then shoot bitusd out the other side to their account. 

A simple one way bridge from coinbase_USD to Bit_USD would be very easy to set up.  (I could probably do it, which is saying something.)  You would have to charge a fee at the bridge in order to offset the costs of buying BTC and then converting that BTC into BTSX and then into Bit_USD, but that shouldn't be too steep. 

Going the other way might be a little bit harder.  Depending on how you want to do it.  I would prefer to keep it as just an address that you send to and the comments in the memo direct it to the correct account on the other side.

All of this prevents you from having to jump through the regulatory hoops associated with running an exchange or a full gateway.

I'd rather use a regulated gateway. We already can buy BitUSD and thats not the problem that Gateways solve. Getting value in is the easy part. The problem is getting value out into legal securities, legal assets, physical precious metals, etc.

There is no way to do this without being fully regulated. The Gateway has to be a financial institution.
At that point when you're already jumping through the hoops.  Why add a layer?  If you're gonna go through all that trouble.  Why ripple?  Just make a btsx gateway.

Because Ripple has invested in a lot of the infrastructure, legal paper work, social and political connections. Why not use their product if the technology is good and they are strategically positioned?

Stellar is an alternative but Ripple would be fine too. Bitshares X shouldn't try to take on Ripple when it can form of symbiotic relationship. Unnecessary competition is not profitable for us.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline puppies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1659
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: puppies
I'm ignorant on that matter as i'm not familiar to how ripple works, so bare with me, but aren't those gateways replicable? cant someone do the same? cant we do the same? or use that as a foundation for something even better?

The idea I like is not having to replicate the gateways.  We could simply create a bridge between ripple and BTSX.  People would be able to deposit on coinbase, and then rather than go to an exchange and buy BTC then buy BTSX and then buy BitUSD, they could send their coinbase dollars straight to a bridge that would then shoot bitusd out the other side to their account. 

A simple one way bridge from coinbase_USD to Bit_USD would be very easy to set up.  (I could probably do it, which is saying something.)  You would have to charge a fee at the bridge in order to offset the costs of buying BTC and then converting that BTC into BTSX and then into Bit_USD, but that shouldn't be too steep. 

Going the other way might be a little bit harder.  Depending on how you want to do it.  I would prefer to keep it as just an address that you send to and the comments in the memo direct it to the correct account on the other side.

All of this prevents you from having to jump through the regulatory hoops associated with running an exchange or a full gateway.

I'd rather use a regulated gateway. We already can buy BitUSD and thats not the problem that Gateways solve. Getting value in is the easy part. The problem is getting value out into legal securities, legal assets, physical precious metals, etc.

There is no way to do this without being fully regulated. The Gateway has to be a financial institution.
At that point when you're already jumping through the hoops.  Why add a layer?  If you're gonna go through all that trouble.  Why ripple?  Just make a btsx gateway.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
I, for one, welcome our new gateway overlords.

I look forward to see what kind of interesting new synergies and developments this partnership could bring. It's an interesting combination that offers many intriguing possibilities. Could you provide a few examples of what you might be able to achieve together?
Here is the main possibility. The ability to turn digital assets into "real" legal securities.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lLqu-Rq2uSDqcPwVwXee3N6G96OFcmv5grWJYwVa93Q/pub

Look at their wishlist. Bitshares is the trading client.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 11:51:04 pm by luckybit »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads