Transition from PTS to Bitshares

[cass]

Correct, once you have your BTS you can sell your PTS and keep the BTS.

ok thx for your answers But if selling after getting my BTS then iam out of the run for future III product launches ... so it mustn't be clever to do this ...

[bytemaster]

Correct, once you have your BTS you can sell your PTS and keep the BTS.

[cass]

Also, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?

It is not a redemption process.  At one specific point in time, when PTS reaches a specific pre-announced block number in its block chain, the forked BTS DAC will initialize a "matching" genesis block.  Whatever PTS you hold as of that block get duplicated into the new DAC.  Then its over.  Alice will have 1 PTS and 1 BTS.

There is no way to recycle your new BTS shares back around for a second forking iteration.  That's what trading exchanges are for.   

so when i get 1:1 change for my PTS in BTS and then sell PTS for example , the buyer can't redeem them again for BTS but he could use it for possible future DACs ?

No redemption, that implies trading in.   BTS is like a dividend on PTS.   Once you earn your BTS you can then trade PTS vs BTS just like PTS vs BTC.

ok cool . but when sell my PTS i will not longer earn BTS dividends on this? To clearify my question, BTS  is launched, i have 1000 PTS --- now i get 1000 BTS the equivalent amount to PTS. So when i sell my 1000 PTS then i still have 1000 BTS !? Sry for asking again ... but want to get this clear for my understanding...

[bytemaster]

Also, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?

It is not a redemption process.  At one specific point in time, when PTS reaches a specific pre-announced block number in its block chain, the forked BTS DAC will initialize a "matching" genesis block.  Whatever PTS you hold as of that block get duplicated into the new DAC.  Then its over.  Alice will have 1 PTS and 1 BTS.

There is no way to recycle your new BTS shares back around for a second forking iteration.  That's what trading exchanges are for.   

so when i get 1:1 change for my PTS in BTS and then sell PTS for example , the buyer can't redeem them again for BTS but he could use it for possible future DACs ?

No redemption, that implies trading in.   BTS is like a dividend on PTS.   Once you earn your BTS you can then trade PTS vs BTS just like PTS vs BTC. 

[cass]

Also, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?

It is not a redemption process.  At one specific point in time, when PTS reaches a specific pre-announced block number in its block chain, the forked BTS DAC will initialize a "matching" genesis block.  Whatever PTS you hold as of that block get duplicated into the new DAC.  Then its over.  Alice will have 1 PTS and 1 BTS.

There is no way to recycle your new BTS shares back around for a second forking iteration.  That's what trading exchanges are for.   

so when i get 1:1 change for my PTS in BTS and then sell PTS for example , the buyer can't redeem them again for BTS but he could use it for possible future DACs ?

[Stan]

Also, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?

It is not a redemption process.  At one specific point in time, when PTS reaches a specific pre-announced block number in its block chain, the forked BTS DAC will initialize a "matching" genesis block.  Whatever PTS you hold as of that block get duplicated into the new DAC.  Then its over.  Alice will have 1 PTS and 1 BTS.

There is no way to recycle your new BTS shares back around for a second forking iteration.  That's what trading exchanges are for.   

[Stan]

Once you redeem your BTS from your PTS, is there any point in holding onto PTS? Also, once PTS are already used to redeem BTS, can they not be used again? So someone buying PTS won't know if they're getting PTS+BTS or just PTS?

You never lose your PTS, you'll just get additional shares in every DAC. So say if you're holding on to 100 PTS at the launch, after the launch of BitShares, you'll have 100 PTS + 100 BTS. The value of PTS might fall but it still has value because Invictus or other community members might come up with other DACs in the future and honor the same social contract of giving initial shares to PTS holders. Invictus has publicly announced their social contract - every DAC they create will be forked from ProtoShares which means by holding ProtoShares, you get a share of each of the Invictus DACs in the future. That's why they're valuable.

Ah, I see. Do I get Keyhotee rep/name for holding PTS?

Is there incentive for other groups to release their DACs forked from PTS? Or is the success of PTS post-BTS launch pretty much entirely dependent on the success of Invictus' other DACs?

Regular Keyhotee IDs are mined for you by Keyhotee at no cost other than a little of your computer's time for proof of work purposes.  They are first-come first-served by the Keyhotee network.

The incentive for other groups to honor the ProtoShares Social Contract is that they instantly get the attention and buy-in of everybody who already understands and believes in the potential of DACs.  All the early adopting True Believers by definition are ProtoShareholders.  We believe that the desire to inherit that community, (and the fear that if you don't honor them you leave the door open for a competitor to do so) will cause a lot of third party developers to honor the social contract. 

The existence of a knowledgable and motivated DAC Angel community of potential investors interested in leveraging their PTS holdings might also influence whether they want to go it alone or not.   

[8bit]

Once you redeem your BTS from your PTS, is there any point in holding onto PTS? Also, once PTS are already used to redeem BTS, can they not be used again? So someone buying PTS won't know if they're getting PTS+BTS or just PTS?

You never lose your PTS, you'll just get additional shares in every DAC. So say if you're holding on to 100 PTS at the launch, after the launch of BitShares, you'll have 100 PTS + 100 BTS. The value of PTS might fall but it still has value because Invictus or other community members might come up with other DACs in the future and honor the same social contract of giving initial shares to PTS holders. Invictus has publicly announced their social contract - every DAC they create will be forked from ProtoShares which means by holding ProtoShares, you get a share of each of the Invictus DACs in the future. That's why they're valuable.

Ah, I see. Do I get Keyhotee rep/name for holding PTS?

Is there incentive for other groups to release their DACs forked from PTS? Or is the success of PTS post-BTS launch pretty much entirely dependent on the success of Invictus' other DACs?

Also, I'm not sure if you addressed my other question. Let's say Alice has 1PTS which she redeems for 1BTS. She then sells her 1PTS to Bob for 10BTC (It doesn't hurt to dream! ). Bob takes the 1PTS he just bought and attempts to use it to redeem 1BTS. What happens?

[Stan]

So What will the PTS price go just before and after release of bitshares? There may be lots of people want to get BTS so they buy PTS and few people want to sell. So the price maybe go very high. And PTS may become very cheap after people receive their BTS. 
In the result, will the price fluctuate dramatically at that time?

Those who value PTS solely as a vehicle for owning one specific new DAC may lose interest in PTS and sell them after they have their new DAC shares.  Conversely, those interested more in PTS for future DACs on the horizon may quickly sell their new DAC shares to buy more PTS.  To the extent that there exist trading vehicles that span the genesis block singularity, the transients that occur there may be significantly damped.

Those who have ears, let them hear.

[lib]

So What will the PTS price go just before and after release of bitshares? There may be lots of people want to get BTS so they buy PTS and few people want to sell. So the price maybe go very high. And PTS may become very cheap after people receive their BTS. 
In the result, will the price fluctuate dramatically at that time?

[ruletheworld]

Once you redeem your BTS from your PTS, is there any point in holding onto PTS? Also, once PTS are already used to redeem BTS, can they not be used again? So someone buying PTS won't know if they're getting PTS+BTS or just PTS?

You never lose your PTS, you'll just get additional shares in every DAC. So say if you're holding on to 100 PTS at the launch, after the launch of BitShares, you'll have 100 PTS + 100 BTS. The value of PTS might fall but it still has value because Invictus or other community members might come up with other DACs in the future and honor the same social contract of giving initial shares to PTS holders. Invictus has publicly announced their social contract - every DAC they create will be forked from ProtoShares which means by holding ProtoShares, you get a share of each of the Invictus DACs in the future. That's why they're valuable.

[8bit]

Once you redeem your BTS from your PTS, is there any point in holding onto PTS? Also, once PTS are already used to redeem BTS, can they not be used again? So someone buying PTS won't know if they're getting PTS+BTS or just PTS?

[phoenix]

I wouldn't call a 6 month delay a "slight delay" It's a substantial delay, but it's worth it if you believe in the value of Bitshares

[Sy]

And they aren't really piling up, they will start to be matured after 6 month, one block every 5 minutes -> normal supply, just added a slight delay

[smiley35]

Oh, I was reading the white paper for bitshares but I must have misunderstood.