Author Topic: Transition from PTS to Bitshares  (Read 9616 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2013, 03:07:31 am »
I don't know why other people would honor ProtoShares... we are just suggesting that if someone did create a new DAC with cool new features that someone could fork it and honor ProtoShares and thus inherit a user base.   But ultimately it is the market and not Invictus that decides whether to honor protoshares or start from 0 or use a pre-mine. 

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Offline Stan

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2013, 03:33:23 am »
But you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?

So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?

Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down.  After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.

I'm finding it hard to understand why competing DACs would honor Protoshares.  What incentives are there?  Wouldn't Invictus and Invictus' DACs also be making money off competitors?

I've also seen an explanation that referred to the competing DACs wanting an already present customer foundation via Protoshare holders. Does that mean competitors would be inheriting your customer base away from you guys?

ProtoShares no longer belongs to Invictus.  It belongs to the community of people who believe in its vision and therefor hold on tightly to its shares - Steely-Eyed ProtoShareholders.  They are the ones best qualified to tell a good DAC from a bad one.  They are the most likely to be early adopters of a new DAC.  What is the best way to get their early buy-in to your new World's Greatest DAC?  Issue some of your shares to them in your Genesis block.  Or you can give them all to people in a hurry to sell them.  Your call.

We look at the big picture.  If someone can launch a particular DAC that is more worthy of survival than one of ours, it strengthens the fabric of Free Space for everybody.  We want to grow the pie, not fight over every slice.  The competitors we'd like to beat are back in Fiat Space.  May the best DACs win!

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Offline ruletheworld

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2013, 03:34:36 am »
But you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?

So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?

Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down.  After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.

I'm finding it hard to understand why competing DACs would honor Protoshares.  What incentives are there?  Wouldn't Invictus and Invictus' DACs also be making money off competitors?

I've also seen an explanation that referred to the competing DACs wanting an already present customer foundation via Protoshare holders. Does that mean competitors would be inheriting your customer base away from you guys?
They don't have to, but here's why they might: build a community that is automatically vested in their idea.

For instance, if you have an idea of a brand new DAC that you think will interest everyone, instead of starting from ground zero, you might as well just fork protoshares, think of it as a 10% premine that has been distributed to several early adopters. Now everyone is automatically invested in your idea, including Invictus and therefore they have an incentive to help your DAC succeed. You don't have to, but you might just enlist the help of the community who also gains with your DAC. At least that's the idea ...
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Offline masterofmyself

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2013, 03:42:29 am »
So if Invictus is invested in a new DAC, they wouldn't necessarily have an incentive to "sabotage" them by selling shares at a super low price?  I guess so long as it is a new DAC unrelated to the services that Invictus provides...

Say the new DAC is a competing service that Invictus already offers... would there even be incentive for someone to compete with Invictus since Invictus could just change its protocol to the upgraded competing service's protocol and sell off the shares of a competitor at a hyper-undervalued price? 

Offline masterofmyself

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2013, 03:44:04 am »
Sorry Bytemaster and Stan, just read your replies.  Makes a lot more sense now - thanks a ton!

Offline Stan

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 04:07:08 am »
So if Invictus is invested in a new DAC, they wouldn't necessarily have an incentive to "sabotage" them by selling shares at a super low price?  I guess so long as it is a new DAC unrelated to the services that Invictus provides...

Say the new DAC is a competing service that Invictus already offers... would there even be incentive for someone to compete with Invictus since Invictus could just change its protocol to the upgraded competing service's protocol and sell off the shares of a competitor at a hyper-undervalued price?

The only way Invictus makes money from our free, open source DACs is by owning shares in the ones we believe will make a profit and/or appreciate.  If there's a competing DAC out there whose dividends are bigger and/or whose shares are appreciating faster than one of ours, we want to own more of its shares and less of ours!

It's a game of leap-frog building on each other's open source code for the good of all - investing in the current leader while perhaps trying to unseat him with yet another leap forward. 

What the community sees is release after release of an ever-improving product that just happens to be produced by a distributed team of competitors.  And it is the community that decides whether to upgrade or not.

Coerce that.   :)
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Offline masterofmyself

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 05:52:01 am »
Thanks for clearing that up for me!  I think I was a bit unclear about what exactly is Protoshares purpose, but now I understand.  Really excited about the future!

Offline her0

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2013, 01:03:50 am »
But you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?

So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?

Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down.  After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.
Before obtaining a snapshot should be given me some time so that we can withdraw the coins from the trading platform into our wallets, in other words, there should be a prior notice.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2013, 01:06:27 am »
But you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?

So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?

Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down.  After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.
Before obtaining a snapshot should be given me some time so that we can withdraw the coins from the trading platform into our wallets, in other words, there should be a prior notice.

Yes, that is a very good point.  We will give everyone a 2 week notice and the exact block number from which the snapshot will be taken.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline phoenix

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 01:09:41 am »
But you will only own the PTS mined so far, right?

So it's taking a snapshot at release - or will future pts get credited too?

Just a snapshot of PTS ownership distribution at first release, when the genesis block of a new DAC is laid down.  After that, your PTS are still good for ownership in other developing DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract.
Before obtaining a snapshot should be given me some time so that we can withdraw the coins from the trading platform into our wallets, in other words, there should be a prior notice.

Yes, that is a very good point.  We will give everyone a 2 week notice and the exact block number from which the snapshot will be taken.

This should also be done before you fork protoshares into proto-domainshares so we can withdraw from trading platforms
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Offline HCarvalho

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2013, 11:38:27 pm »
With our protoshares will we be able to turn them in every dac that is bitshare based? The same pts can be used in 10 different DACs?

Offline phoenix

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2013, 11:49:46 pm »
With our protoshares will we be able to turn them in every dac that is bitshare based? The same pts can be used in 10 different DACs?

This is correct, you don't lose your PTS when a new DAC comes out, you just get shares in that DAC
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Offline HCarvalho

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2013, 11:54:09 pm »
And what are DACs? Digital startups? If so, this coulda been a great idea in 95, we could be stockholders in google, yahoo and facebook, lol

Offline testz

Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2013, 02:59:12 am »
And what are DACs? Digital startups? If so, this coulda been a great idea in 95, we could be stockholders in google, yahoo and facebook, lol

Did you try to read it: http://invictus-innovations.com/i-dac/

Offline smiley35

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Re: Transition from PTS to Bitshares
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2013, 05:05:05 am »
So when the transition happens Protoshares will be honored 1:1. How many bitshares exist? 5 million BTS block reward yes? So since there are aprox 600,000 pts everyone will be sharing like a 1/10 of the first block in founding shares or whatever? If one was trying to acquire BTS would they not be better off just waiting and buying bts or spending that money on mining?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 05:07:44 am by smiley35 »