When will we achieve next order of magnitude increase?

[jsidhu]

Right when I heard of Nxt I dismissed it because of its name simple as that... its not going anywhere.

Bitshares = bitcoin but with shares... its an easy transition from bitcoin. Sorry but no matter how innovative nxt is its not going to achieve a household name with the silly title. Anyways it was enough for me to dismiss it and not buy or want to develop, and im sure many others... in your own words not trying to spread FUD just speaking the truth. Gluck!

[Method-X]

Does NXT have market pegged assets?

no

@hughmanwho

Then I'm not interested. The market peg is what sets this experiment above and beyond everything else in the crypto space. I think it was @OldMan who described BitShares as the Windows of cryptocoins and he's absolutely correct with that analogy. Right now, bitcoin cannot breach the early adopter --> early majority barrier (aka "the chasm"). Once BTSX crosses from us innovators to the early adopters, it won't have any issues crossing over into early majority because of BitAssets.

[serejandmyself]

Does NXT have market pegged assets?

Dont go to the "darkside" 

[xeroc]

Does NXT have market pegged assets?

no

[Method-X]

Does NXT have market pegged assets?

[yellowecho]

Here's the thing about it being a bubble.. what can customers currently do with it other than speculate or buy BitUSD?  That makes it a bubble.  Maybe a bubble within the stealth phase in the long run.. but a bubble none the less.

99.9% of Bitcoin, equities, and currencies are used for speculation.. speculative trading is a mechanism in free markets in price discovery.

Anything you can do with BitShares, you can do with Nxt.. except you can also do far more with Nxt

Except NXT doesn't have market-issued assets only IOUs that aren't fungible by the network.. which is exactly what BitsharesX does.  That alone is why BitsharesX has well over 10x the volume as NXT.

Except granted DPOS is quite cool.. still not as cool as Nxt's upcoming Instant Transaction system.. it's actually going to be much more decentralized Instant Transactions unlike DPOS, but granted that sounds like it's a long way away and until implemented, doesn't do much for Nxt.

NXT has been talking about an 'upcoming Instant Transactions' since October of 2013 so I'll believe it when I see it.  Even if it's implemented soon, DPOS is capable of scaling to VISA-level speeds and transaction volumes.. the 10 second blocks is an arbitrary number but Toast has already run DNS tests with 2 second blocks and other improvements are still actively being developed.  Could NXT Instant Transactions even support VISA or NYSE volumes? 

Nxt has much more of a network effect going for it.

NXT has good devs but I don't see much of a 'network effect' going on.  User base isn't growing very much and NXT has low trade volumes for such a highly priced crypto.  IMO NXT shot itself in the foot with the poor initial distribution and has spent so much time developing functionality for a userbase that just isn't there.

I'm comparing it to Nxt because BitShares is currently much like Nxt was in December of last year and both are POS and attract similiar crowds.  ...Nxt is still just as revolutionary as BTSX, if not more as it figured out much of this stuff first.

I owned NXT when it first launched (and could only be bought on Dgex) and the software was far more buggy that anything Bitshares has produced.  NXT's alpha was barely useable.  And NXT didn't 'figure out much of this stuff first' they just released their product first.  While NXT was developing it's full feature set, Bitshares was ensuring it's MVP had the proper feature set for scaling.  Bitshares development was delayed several months because of the design and development on DPOS and TITAN but the end result was superior to NXTs forging model.  Now that the Bitshares toolkit is available, DACs will start popping up very quickly.  I'm willing to bet that BitsharesDNS will top NMC on Coinmarketcap within two months of its release.

And if someone manages to get 51% of the delegates, they can simply choose to stop including transactions that allow holders to choose different delegates and suddenly BTSX is dead.  Which is easier and cheaper when you only have to get 50 delegates by convincing people to vote for them without needing to actually buy 51% of the stake.  I definitely suspect that something like that will start being used to try to scare people from BTSX and it will affect price.

What does 'someone manages to get 51% of the delegates' even mean?  And what does someone have to gain by breaking the network?  Even if a 51% attack occurred, at that point BTSX would be forked and the 49% could say "have fun by yourself, dumbass" and continue as normal.  Besides, 51% attacks are possible on all systems.. saying BTSX is more vulnerable that any other system is completely unfounded FUD.  I'd be more fearful of majority NXT holders colluding on their forge than delegates being thwarted. 

Just please, download the Nxt wallet found at nxt.org.. and tell me that you really think that BitShares has Nxt beat feature wise.  BTSX has some improvements and features that Nxt has been slow to implement.  I'm not saying switch to Nxt either.. just try to remove emotions and not lose too much money, especially if you're a little guy who can't afford to lose too much.

BitsharesX's market-issued assets set it apart from NXT.  I'm willing to bet that BitsharesX will release a new client with most features found in NXT before NXT even releases it's 'Instant Transactions' or market-issued assets.

[jsidhu]

It's so funny how people involved in crypto will pick coins like they pick a sports team.

Team BTC, team NXT, team DOGE, team BTSX.

How about team blockchain technology?

You hear of team SuperNet?  Might interest you.. it's a Nxt initiative to try to unite the coins.  Basically a asset that will be backed by all of the major crypto players, holding on to a large chunk of many coins.  Sort of like the first Mutual Fund for crypto.  If any coins make it big, everyone invested makes it big.  And let's face it.. we all know that some of the coins will do so, just that nobody is 100% sure which ones will stick around.

Does SuperNet has DPOS? IMO better products of crypto will battle it out for the most secured and innovative way of blockchain technology in terms of service it  may render, as decentralized/distributed as possible. Mining is totally in obsolete stage. So services generate cashflow and stakes will be bigger as time goes by. Investors will surely want to have a slice of pie with this form of income generation. Bitshare is several miles ahead with DPOS plus company may adapt it to jumpstart their own decentralized business.

its not a coin

[Markus]

What do you think that label "Take off" at the transition between Stealth and Awareness Phase means?

Media attention is not about coinmarketcap.com. The crypto community is tiny.
Go and search for "BitShares" in Google News. How many hits do you get for the last week? Compare that to a search for "Bitcoin".

[svk]

Here's the thing about it being a bubble.. what can customers currently do with it other than speculate or buy BitUSD?  That makes it a bubble.  Maybe a bubble within the stealth phase in the long run.. but a bubble none the less.

Anything you can do with BitShares, you can do with Nxt.. except you can also do far more with Nxt, you can actually buy/sell stuff with Nxt.. some stores accept it, there are many websites all over powered by Nxt and using Nxt for business, it's all over the place and has a lot of community support and has for a while.  Some big name payment processors are going to be adding it soon, they have a Point of Sale payment system coming out soon.  The Nxt marketplace just launched.  Except granted DPOS is quite cool.. still not as cool as Nxt's upcoming Instant Transaction system.. it's actually going to be much more decentralized Instant Transactions unlike DPOS, but granted that sounds like it's a long way away and until implemented, doesn't do much for Nxt.  Nxt has much more of a network effect going for it.

I'm comparing it to Nxt because BitShares is currently much like Nxt was in December of last year and both are POS and attract similiar crowds.  It'd been in development for a few months and had a lot of potential and we all assumed that everyone else must see the same potential we did.  But guess what, they didn't and never do.  If they couldn't use it right now to do anything, then why buy it right now.. why not wait for the excitement to die down and see if it was actually going to have staying power. Granted FUD about the 'unfair' distribution didn't help, but Nxt is still just as revolutionary as BTSX, if not more as it figured out much of this stuff first.

But Bitshares has it's own brand of FUD people are spreading about it being centralized due to DPOS.. which is partially true given you can vote for multiple delegates.  And if someone manages to get 51% of the delegates, they can simply choose to stop including transactions that allow holders to choose different delegates and suddenly BTSX is dead.  Which is easier and cheaper when you only have to get 50 delegates by convincing people to vote for them without needing to actually buy 51% of the stake.  I definitely suspect that something like that will start being used to try to scare people from BTSX and it will affect price.

I'm not trying to scare people just be realistic.. be aware that it is risky and odds are that the second phase of the first bubble will break soon.  This whole talk of BTSX being revolutionary is part of the 'New Paradigm' that comes will all bubbles.  Don't lose half your life savings because you invest it all in now realizing that BTSX has long term potential, then the price halves.. or more.  Wait until after the price halves so you can buy twice as much!  Just please, download the Nxt wallet found at nxt.org.. and tell me that you really think that BitShares has Nxt beat feature wise.  BTSX has some improvements and features that Nxt has been slow to implement.  I'm not saying switch to Nxt either.. just try to remove emotions and not lose too much money, especially if you're a little guy who can't afford to lose too much.

Oh and yes, SuperNet might be centralized currently, I think currencies are held via multi-sig.. I think that control of it will be gradually more and more decentralized as the Multi-Gateway is expanded and more currencies are added to MGW.  Which is a really cool project by itself.. you can trade Nxt and BTC in a decentralized fashion!

While I can understand you comparing Bitshares to Nxt because of the technology, Bitshares must be considered to be far superior to Nxt due to its initial distribution. I always though Nxt seemed interesting technology wise, but because of the extremely flawed initial distribution I never wanted to have anything to do with it, same with Ripple.

I found a very interesting report on the state of Nxt here: https://github.com/dmkaplan2000/nxt_state/blob/master/nxt_state.md

This extract in particular is interesting:

Though 50% of all NXT are represented by only 28 large NXT accounts, 477 accounts are required to represent 95% of all NXT and 1317 accounts are required to represent 99% of all NXT. The largest single account represents 5% of all NXT, but only 25 accounts have more than 1% of all NXT in them.

On the other hand, the vast majority of NXT accounts are indeed very small compared to the big fish. 34.3% of all accounts have a zero balance, and 48.4% of accounts have never held more than 5 NXT (presumably these are primarily faucet accounts).

Collectively, this leads to a Gini index of inequality of 0.992 (0.986 eliminating "faucet" accounts). Basically, if NXT were a country, it would be the most unequal on the planet (Gini values for countries range from 0.25 in Scandinavia to 0.7 in some African countries). However, this isn't a fair comparison. Better would be to compare the NXT Gini index to that of a small- to medium-sized publicly traded company shortly after the IPO. I don't have these statistics, but I imagine someone does.

I believe I3 is the biggest stakeholder currently in BTSX, and they control around 9% of the supply, but below them the distribution is surely much fairer than in Nxt. Unfortunately TITAN makes this kind of account analysis very difficult, but we know that BTSX already has 24.5k accounts after a month and a half, already almost as many as Nxt.

[hughmanwho]

And in the interests of Full Disclosure,

hughmanwho would like to state: .............................................................................

No, it was more like:
     .  . .    <- I sell what little I have       goes to moon  -> ..
  .           .                                                                        . . . .
. <- now   .                                                                   .
                  .                                 .           . . . . .        .
                    .                  ...........    ........             .
                      .           .
                            .  <- I buy
 
You guys clearly aren't reading closely.. I'm saying that I'm planning to buy and like Bitshares, just think it's in a bubble and currently over priced.  Look at slowly decreasing volume.

[fuzzy]

Keep in mind that BTSX will crash first before going back up again.. just warning you this is the 'return to normal' found in any bubble.



BTSX has some great technology but it simply hasn't had as much time to acquire as many users, and trust me it'll crash soon.  I'd give it one or two days before we hit the second peak.  I'd recommend you sell some soon if you are in it for the money, then buy back in a month or so.  Don't say I didn't warn you!

What do you think the peak will be?

Bitshares has not completed the stealth phase.

99% of the world has no idea Bitshares exist.

Probably less one in ten BTC/Alt users understand the platform. Less than that have sold BTC/Alts to acquire BTSX.

My completely unbacked opinion is that BTSX will transition into the awareness phase over the next three or four months.

The 'first sell off' will happen around the $1bn market cap, mostly for psychological reasons. I'm (guessing) that will happen Q1 2015.

This horse hasn't even left the gate.

more like one year for the awarness stage

All I know is brian has spoken to some of the stuff we are talking about.  Big money already seems to be slowly coming online...it takes awhile to snag big fish, so that is probably why brian was so silent before. Making connections in and of itself is a fulltime job. 

Volume of btsx is already at around 33% of litecoin's on average (on good days even more). And bitUSD and the apps that bring it to a world market are not even online yet. 

I like NXT and like its clones too and see nothing wrong with their decentralized exchanges except for the potential for schemes on the NXT exchange.  With webs of trust built over time, their user issued assets will be cool.  If it werent for bitshares ME being constructed to integrate with other DACs, id not be very bullish on it because that seems what NXT does best (along with the idea of forging). But other than that, we have to understand that sharedropping can be strategically done on NXT assets and altcoins in a way that would near instantly gain the respect of most NXT holders and Devs. Supernet could easily become unspoken ally in the crypto sphere though it may be unnecessarily centralizing...

[jwiz168]

hughmanwho you have the rights to brag about Nxt , but the thing is you are NOT in the right place. FUDing majority of BTSX investor ?? WE HAVE OUR FAITH IN BITSHARES RIGHT FROM THE MOMENT WE MINED PTS.

I'm not sure the post was intended as FUD.

His cautions are with merit and his advice is sound.

In fact, posts like these are very valuable as they remind us to constantly reassess our investment strategies.

Complacency combined with hype is a bad mix.

Fortunately for me, I've reassessed and jumped right back on the train.

YMMV 

Quote from hughman who

"they are just interested and panic buying in case BTSX goes past Ripple or Litecoin.. except it won't because Ripple and Litecoin have both been around for years and have many, many people who have been interested in it for just as long"



I think this is FUDing in every literal sense.

[jwiz168]

Yes there are merits but timing has its malice . As evident to the fact that you have mentioned it wont surpass litecoin makes me wonder. Where is crystal ball that made you stated that ? As far as btsx, it has very much potential, and the state of panic is now in your nerve. If you are confident enough with your NXt investments, stick with its potentials. Do not make other assets somehow less superior.

[hughmanwho]

hughmanwho you have the rights to brag about Nxt , but the thing is you are NOT in the right place. FUDing majority of BTSX investor ?? WE HAVE OUR FAITH IN BITSHARES RIGHT FROM THE MOMENT WE MINED PTS.

Yes.. as did those who were involved in early Nxt.  But the newcomers who barely know BTSX and who fueled this bubble don't know BTSX or have Faith in it yet, they are just interested and panic buying in case BTSX goes past Ripple or Litecoin.. except it won't because Ripple and Litecoin have both been around for years and have many, many people who have been interested in it for just as long.  Notice that these hard core BTSX investors were perfectly happy selling their BTSX assets for 4 times less a month ago.  I suspect it'll never dip that low again.. but $40 million marketcap.. I suspect it'll happen.  Time will tell and one of us will make or lose money as a result.  Trust me, Bitshares isn't going to become a bubble that pops and crashes because I'm speculating it might.  Just saying keep your eyes open and think about the possibility.

Interesting points OldMan.  I think Nxt can do it.. but you do make interesting points.  And trust me.. when the bubble pops , I'm definitely going to be buying some BTSX.  One thing I really like about Nxt is that there are just so many people working on it.. talk about decentralized, look at their development team.  If Dan were to be hit by a bus tomorrow, BitShares would be in trouble.  Hit any Nxt developer with a bus and we'd mourn them but others would rush in.  Probably not going to happen but it is a risk.

Personally I love the name Nxt.  Has a nice story behind it too.. I do wish it was 'Next' instead of 'Nxt' but I don't think that the name will be the reason Nxt does or doesn't make it.  I also see what you are saying about the name. It does make it stand out as a good investment platform.  However, efforts are to make Nxt into a currency as well and think that would make Nxt much more valuable in the long run and more likely to grow bigger than Bitshares in the long run for precisely the same reason.  BitShares as a name doesn't sound like a currency.

[oldman]

hughmanwho you have the rights to brag about Nxt , but the thing is you are NOT in the right place. FUDing majority of BTSX investor ?? WE HAVE OUR FAITH IN BITSHARES RIGHT FROM THE MOMENT WE MINED PTS.

I'm not sure the post was intended as FUD.

His cautions are with merit and his advice is sound.

In fact, posts like these are very valuable as they remind us to constantly reassess our investment strategies.

Complacency combined with hype is a bad mix.

Fortunately for me, I've reassessed and jumped right back on the train.

YMMV