Author Topic: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!  (Read 94852 times)

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Offline bytemaster

Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2014, 03:11:55 pm »
The margin orders only shows the top 100...

You can go in your wallet to: Directory / Assets / USD and see the current share supply: 485,250.3572 USD
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Offline tonyk

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2014, 03:20:31 pm »
we can figure out the total BitAssets shorted in the market at present through calculating the Margin Orders info.

Am I right?

The total shorted is equal to the total bitAsset supply - so this info is more readily available. From those margin orders you can see those that (if the price moves in that direction) will be executed first, at what price and how much/how big those orders are.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Overthetop

Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2014, 03:27:27 pm »
The margin orders only shows the top 100...

You can go in your wallet to: Directory / Assets / USD and see the current share supply: 485,250.3572 USD


The total shorted is equal to the total bitAsset supply - so this info is more readily available. From those margin orders you can see those that (if the price moves in that direction) will be executed first, at what price and how much/how big those orders are.

Got it...

Thank you , and thank MeTHoDx for the thread.

 :)

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Offline kisa

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2014, 06:43:04 pm »
I read a lot in here about the market peg for bit asset...

I know what the concept means, but except for pre-defined market consensus, I don't see how it can peg to the USD value. Is market consensus a sufficient force to keep the peg?

My understanding of shorting is selling something you don't have (and borrow) for a fixed price in the future, betting the price will drop so you'll be able to buy it cheaper later and make a profit. (Am I right?) But how does shorting could get the value of bitusd to drop compared to usd and affect the peg?

Shorting is indeed selling some asset you borrowed, however not for a fixed price in the future (this would be forward trade), but at the currently prevailing (spot) market price. In the future, the short seller "covers" his short position by buying the asset at then prevailing (spot) market price, and returns the asset to the lender.

with regards to the peg, as far as I understand - there is a mechanism in place within bitsharesX which enables willing market participants (arbitrageurs) to make profits whenever bitUSD moves far away from the USD value, expressed in BTSX terms. I might be still missing some important reasoning behind the peg, e.g. prediction markets stuff. Are there implicit or explicit penalties in place for both shorts and longs, in case bitUSD were to stabilize around 0.5 USD? or 1.5 USD?

Yet
- whenever bitUSD is reasonably undervalued vs. USD (which recently meant somewhere below 0.75), such arbitrageurs establish their longs in bitUSD (buying bitUSD with BTSX), thus moving its price higher somewhat closer to the peg, adjusted for BTSX/USD rate moves. To neutralise the risk that BTSX price increases in USD terms while peg readjusting, they would simultaneously buy corresponding BTSX amoung for USD on some centralised exchange. Finally, positions are unwound, when achieving profit after peg readjusted: sell bitUSD for BTSX, and sell BTSX for USD.

- whenever bitUSD becomes expensive vs. USD (which currently means somewhere above 0.95), then arbitrageurs can go short bitUSD by "borrowing bitUSD from bitsharesX", e.g. issuing for that very purpose newly created bitUSD into the hands of the willing buyers. Short sellers have to collateralise their positions by certain amount of their BTSX - which ensures that they don't simply run away if their short position loses value. The act of satisfying bitUSD demand with newly issued bitUSD contributes to bitUSD price downward pressure vs. BTSX, again moving bitUSD closer to USD peg. Still, to neutralise the risk of BTSX falling in USD terms while peg readjusting, such short sellers would exchange correspondent amount of their BTSX holdings into USD on some centralised exchange for the duration of their trade. Finally, positions get unwound, either when achieving profit after peg readjusted, or via "margin call": bitUSD short gets covered with BTSX collateral released, and buy back BTSX for USD on the centralised exchange. At short covering, bitUSDs previously created by bitsharesX for the shorting purpose, get simultaneously destroyed (e.g. borrowed asset is returned to the issuer).

Note: arbitrageur shorting bitUSD, who is also BTSX bull, risks missing BTSX rally while performing arbitrage. Therefore BTSX bulls should simply short sell overvalued vs peg bitUSD, thus contributing to the peg, while carrying the risk of BTSX fall vs USD.

Implementing all this sounds difficult, but arbitrage will be automatised as the market matures and so becomes more efficient. ;)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 04:14:48 pm by kisa0145 »

Offline liondani

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2014, 01:41:05 am »
Is it a way to make orders depending on bitUSD/USD ratio?
I mean how can I put an order to buy bitUSD for example when bitUSD is 85% of USD and lower without the need to calculate it manual every time?

Offline Markus

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2014, 02:17:39 am »
Is it a way to make orders depending on bitUSD/USD ratio?
I mean how can I put an order to buy bitUSD for example when bitUSD is 85% of USD and lower without the need to calculate it manual every time?
Within BitShares not at the moment.
It would have to be linked to the delegate price feed which some might consider a risk. But since short orders depend on that feed I can't think of a reason why normal trades should not have it as an option. It would consume some resources though (RAM and maybe even blockchain space)

For now you can do that here: https://bter.com/trade/BITUSD_USD
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 02:19:24 am by Markus »

Offline liondani

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2014, 02:38:14 am »
it would increase market depth if we could make orders depended of the ratio...  imagine an order like :  buy x bitUSD at ratio:85%

Offline graffenwalder

Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2014, 07:25:42 am »
When a snapshot gets taken for a future chain, would you have to cancel your orders?

And would bit assets also give you a piece of the pie in a future chain, or only BTSX?

Offline emski

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2014, 08:03:53 am »
When a snapshot gets taken for a future chain, would you have to cancel your orders?

And would bit assets also give you a piece of the pie in a future chain, or only BTSX?

Related: What if all your BTSX are held as collateral when a snapshot is created?


Offline bytemaster

Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2014, 01:17:22 pm »
Btsx in collateral or orders is still owned by a public key and can participate in snapshots.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2014, 01:18:17 pm »

it would increase market depth if we could make orders depended of the ratio...  imagine an order like :  buy x bitUSD at ratio:85%

I like this idea. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Method-X

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2014, 02:13:47 pm »
it would increase market depth if we could make orders depended of the ratio...  imagine an order like :  buy x bitUSD at ratio:85%

 +5%

This is a great idea!

Offline speedy

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2014, 04:29:51 pm »
I like this thread. Here is my question:

Are there any more trading gui screenshots? Sure would be nice to see some more.

I have been holding back from trading until the gui gives a more detailed picture of the market.

Also, I really like the way svk has done the "Shorts range" on his block explorer site, which shows what prices below the median we are allowed to short at. This should be in the trading gui.

Offline xeroc

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2014, 04:47:15 pm »
I like this thread. Here is my question:

Are there any more trading gui screenshots? Sure would be nice to see some more.

I have been holding back from trading until the gui gives a more detailed picture of the market.

Also, I really like the way svk has done the "Shorts range" on his block explorer site, which shows what prices below the median we are allowed to short at. This should be in the trading gui.
No more screenshots atm .. but be assured .. people are working on a WAY better trading platform for bitsharesX .. but hey .. pssst. :-)
give them some weeks
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Offline Maximus0352

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Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2014, 10:28:57 pm »
How exactly do I go about shorting bitUSD?  ??? Can anyone give me an example of ideal conditions that will earn profit?