Author Topic: NuBits  (Read 80080 times)

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Offline James212

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Reality is NBT so far works better than BitUSD, when it comes to liquidity. Can you buy/sell 1000 BTC worth of BitUSD without pushing the market? No.

Straw man argument.  You can't argue against the potential wet bag of shit Ponzi scheme that is NuScam


So...we just say over and over that NuBits is a scam.

Plenty of other people say bitUSD is a scam and the peg wont work. 

How are we different?


We need to bring technical arguments to these discussions to demonstrate why bitUSD is better.
We need to have more market volume in bitUSD, to show that it is the superior choice. 

We dont need to circlejerk and repeat 'nubits is a scam' over and over whenever anyone talks about it.  Having our heads in the sand and just 'believing' in BTSX isnt going to accomplish anything.  This isnt a religion.
+5%   Hearing these arguments I feel like Im looking at one of the many superior products that were destined to fail against lesser competition.  The fact is that Nubits works right now.  Very few people ever care to look under the hood to understand the technicalities as to WHY something works.  To argue against Nubits' economically flawd model gets us nowhere.  Right now they are beating us in this area even though they just launched (2 months after BTSX).  The reason:  1) They stabilized their product faster  2) They apparently have better marketing.   

So what must we do better?
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Offline donkeypong

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Bitshares requires bag holders as well. If everyone decides to get out of BitUSD what next? How well will it "track" the price? You are missing my point. BitUSD has problem with liquidity. Right now if you were to buy and sell a measly $10k in BitUSD within a second what is your spread? What about $100k? So unless there are buyers of BitUSD, it doesn't work. And unless it works there are no serious buyers for BitUSD. See the similarities? You can throw interest, bots and what not at it. But BTSX is not an ideal solution either.

Approaching an ideal is an infinite task. All we can do is keep working on approaching that point (which we'll never reach) and continue getting better in the process. What don't you like about BTSX? I'm pretty happy with it so far and I sense that it's just getting started.

How would you prevent a collapse if everyone decides to sell off? Ask the Federal Reserve what's backing the U.S. dollar. At the end of the day, there isn't anything tangible. Even if it's backed by gold or silver, we've seen that a new generation does not consider those to be the same store of value they used to be in times past. And we've seen that their prices get manipulated by powerful interests in the same way that currencies themselves do.

At the end of the day, what's backing a currency is the people, the land, the resources, the economy, and the utility of that currency. All we can do here is build a powerful BitShares community and financial ecosystem around BitShares. Every song that gets loaded onto PeerTracks, every domain registered with KeyID, every dollar hedged with BitUSD or BitGLD, every tweak to BitShares X that makes it respond better for users, every new user on the forums...these all make our system stronger.

In the end, that strength will stand for something because it's all interdependent and it does things that serve needs for people. That's value, just like the U.S. dollar has value. Its value is a powerful country behind it with a great land and innovative people. BitUSD's and BTSX's value will come from that same strength, only hopefully it will be less centralized and less subject to manipulation by powerful interests. There is a huge demand for a faster, dependendable, and stable online currency, and BitUSD certainly seems to fill that niche.

What is NuBits? A currency. If they build it, will people come? Will it have true value behind it? Time will tell. I think BitShares is much, much further down that road of creating real value.

Offline Method-X

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Reality is NBT so far works better than BitUSD, when it comes to liquidity. Can you buy/sell 1000 BTC worth of BitUSD without pushing the market? No.

Straw man argument.  You can't argue against the potential wet bag of shit Ponzi scheme that is NuScam


So...we just say over and over that NuBits is a scam.

Plenty of other people say bitUSD is a scam and the peg wont work. 

How are we different?


We need to bring technical arguments to these discussions to demonstrate why bitUSD is better.
We need to have more market volume in bitUSD, to show that it is the superior choice. 

We dont need to circlejerk and repeat 'nubits is a scam' over and over whenever anyone talks about it.  Having our heads in the sand and just 'believing' in BTSX isnt going to accomplish anything.  This isnt a religion.

Makes us no better than Bitcoiners otherwise. The way I understand it is NuBits can't contract it's supply, while the supply of BitUSD reaches equilibrium naturally.

Also, NuBit volume is the result of bots trading. It's not organic.

EDIT: Truthfully though, I've been keeping an eye on both communities. I'll switch to NuBits if they implement a superior marketing strategy and I think they have a shot at gaining network effect. I like the simplicity of NuBits and their singular marketing/development focus. The BitShares devs have spread themselves thin across multiple DACs and their branding is needlessly complex.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 09:12:07 pm by MeTHoDx »

Offline Ander

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Bitshares requires bag holders as well. If everyone decides to get out of BitUSD what next? How well will it "track" the price?

The answer to this is why bitUSD works better than NuBits.

If everyone wants out of bitUSD, the price will go below $1, and shorts will cover and the bitUSD that people wish to sell will *be destroyed*.  Those bitUSD will no longer exist.  There will not be a new bagholder who bought them at .98 now looking to sell at .95, and another bagholder at .95 looking to sell at .90, and so on down to 0 value.

Instead, the bitUSD that everyone was desperate to get rid of will be GONE, the supply contracting until demand and supply are again equal! 


Then, if in the future, demand for bitUSD increases again, more can be created.



This is why bitUSD >> NuBits.  You cant destroy the NuBits.  You can merely offer the bagholder a larger and larger and larger interest rate in order to 'park' the NuBits for a while.  But once it is done being parked, the original NuBits PLUS the interest are back, looking to be sold. 



Of course, FOR NOW, there is a lot of demand for NuBits and not much for bitUSD.  Which is the problem that we must remedy.

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Offline bitmeat

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Bitshares requires bag holders as well. If everyone decides to get out of BitUSD what next? How well will it "track" the price? You are missing my point. BitUSD has problem with liquidity. Right now if you were to buy and sell a measly $10k in BitUSD within a second what is your spread? What about $100k? So unless there are buyers of BitUSD, it doesn't work. And unless it works there are no serious buyers for BitUSD. See the similarities? You can throw interest, bots and what not at it. But BTSX is not an ideal solution either.

Offline Ander

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Reality is NBT so far works better than BitUSD, when it comes to liquidity. Can you buy/sell 1000 BTC worth of BitUSD without pushing the market? No.

Straw man argument.  You can't argue against the potential wet bag of shit Ponzi scheme that is NuScam


So...we just say over and over that NuBits is a scam.

Plenty of other people say bitUSD is a scam and the peg wont work. 

How are we different?


We need to bring technical arguments to these discussions to demonstrate why bitUSD is better.
We need to have more market volume in bitUSD, to show that it is the superior choice. 

We dont need to circlejerk and repeat 'nubits is a scam' over and over whenever anyone talks about it.  Having our heads in the sand and just 'believing' in BTSX isnt going to accomplish anything.  This isnt a religion.


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Offline Ander

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Reality is NBT so far works better than BitUSD, when it comes to liquidity. Can you buy/sell 1000 BTC worth of BitUSD without pushing the market? No.

Yes, this is true for now.  NuBits is way ahead of us at present in terms of market volume / adoption.

We need two things:
* Bug fixes / stable code base (bytemaster is working on this constantly).
* Marketing to drive demand for bitUSD.  (OpenBazaar?  Referral Campaign?  etc).
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Offline carpet ride

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Reality is NBT so far works better than BitUSD, when it comes to liquidity. Can you buy/sell 1000 BTC worth of BitUSD without pushing the market? No.

Straw man argument.  You can't argue against the potential wet bag of shit Ponzi scheme that is NuScam


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Offline bitmeat

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Reality is NBT so far works better than BitUSD, when it comes to liquidity. Can you buy/sell 1000 BTC worth of BitUSD without pushing the market? No.

Offline Chuckone

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If I just look at numbers, it seems NuBits is in front of bitUSD in the adoption race (for now) for hedging against crypto volatility. 5246BTC of volume in one day, it's quite impressive. I understand the temporary need to hedge against Bitcoin drop, but it's surprising how much people can buy into something that is economically flawed. Is it misinformation, or people are convincing themselves they won't be the bag holders at some point?

Because let's face it, if Bitcoin rally and for any reason go back up to 600-700$, those Nubits holders who see that will jump ship and go back on the BTC train... And if new buyers aren't there to buy it up, it could mean trouble.

Is my understanding flawed?

Yes Nubits is bad.

But this was an excellent weekend to kickstart and bootstrap BitAssets within the Alt-Coin market for very little outlay as many who stay exclusively in BitCoin nearly all the time would have been looking at other options.

BTSX at no.4 doesn't advertise BitAssets, even when you go to the website.
Our BitAssets are listed on a separate page, they also have a low CAP.
Then of course we've got the hurdle of getting your account on a wallet.

Alot of the trading seems to be happening on the exchange. So I guess seems need a market maker with a high volume of BitUSD available for trade on Bter. On Bter may also be best if BitUSD was on main page like Nubits.

A simple BitUSD website with a walkthrough like Nubits perhaps.
Adverts on CMC/Coindesk if we can't get BitAssets listed on main page.

Just some ideas.

Yes, I like your perspective.

Finding solution for our own sake rather than complaining on something not working like I'm doing ;)

 +5%

Offline Chuckone

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If I just look at numbers, it seems NuBits is in front of bitUSD in the adoption race (for now) for hedging against crypto volatility. 5246BTC of volume in one day, it's quite impressive. I understand the temporary need to hedge against Bitcoin drop, but it's surprising how much people can buy into something that is economically flawed. Is it misinformation, or people are convincing themselves they won't be the bag holders at some point?

Because let's face it, if Bitcoin rally and for any reason go back up to 600-700$, those Nubits holders who see that will jump ship and go back on the BTC train... And if new buyers aren't there to buy it up, it could mean trouble.

Is my understanding flawed?

You're correct.
The buyer of Nubits can just hope that the ones holding the money won't get away after earning millions of dollars from thin air.Or they have to pray for another people to pick up mess.

It's depressing to see a flawed model still get that level of traction in the crypto community. I can't wait to see the marketing plan Brian and the rest of the team will come up with, and I just hope NuBits fall wont have a negative impact on ALL market pegged assets.

But let's say the founders are honest and stay true to their word, they still won't be able to keep up with dividend pay in hard times when the project loses traction and there's more sellers than buyers (and holders are still numerous). So no matter how good their intentions are, at some point the dividend fund will dry out, and there will be no money left to buy back those who wants to get out.

I'd be curious to know the perspective of someone very familiar with the NuBits system on that very matter. Telling me "well, we're going to issue more NuBits, try to sell them and hope for the best" won't cut it. I might have missed it in this thread, but does anyone know how they answered the question: "How does your system plan on being sustainable in the long run?" (I'll be ready to discuss any good answer where selling more NuBits isn't the solution)

Offline Empirical1.1

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If I just look at numbers, it seems NuBits is in front of bitUSD in the adoption race (for now) for hedging against crypto volatility. 5246BTC of volume in one day, it's quite impressive. I understand the temporary need to hedge against Bitcoin drop, but it's surprising how much people can buy into something that is economically flawed. Is it misinformation, or people are convincing themselves they won't be the bag holders at some point?

Because let's face it, if Bitcoin rally and for any reason go back up to 600-700$, those Nubits holders who see that will jump ship and go back on the BTC train... And if new buyers aren't there to buy it up, it could mean trouble.

Is my understanding flawed?

Yes Nubits is bad.

But this was an excellent weekend to kickstart and bootstrap BitAssets within the Alt-Coin market for very little outlay as many who stay exclusively in BitCoin nearly all the time would have been looking at other options.

BTSX at no.4 doesn't advertise BitAssets, even when you go to the website.
Our BitAssets are listed on a separate page, they also have a low CAP.
Then of course we've got the hurdle of getting your account on a wallet.

Alot of the trading seems to be happening on the exchange. So I guess seems need a market maker with a high volume of BitUSD available for trade on Bter. On Bter may also be best if BitUSD was on main page like Nubits.

A simple BitUSD website with a walkthrough like Nubits perhaps.
Adverts on CMC/Coindesk if we can't get BitAssets listed on main page.

Just some ideas.

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Nubits is flawed!

Someone has to be either stupid or naive in order to believe that this crap has any future long term.



   

Offline Chuckone

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If I just look at numbers, it seems NuBits is in front of bitUSD in the adoption race (for now) for hedging against crypto volatility. 5246BTC of volume in one day, it's quite impressive. I understand the temporary need to hedge against Bitcoin drop, but it's surprising how much people can buy into something that is economically flawed. Is it misinformation, or people are convincing themselves they won't be the bag holders at some point?

Because let's face it, if Bitcoin rally and for any reason go back up to 600-700$, those Nubits holders who see that will jump ship and go back on the BTC train... And if new buyers aren't there to buy it up, it could mean trouble.

Is my understanding flawed?

Offline Mtinie

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Its not fake volume.  Its probably done by bots but the trades are real and bter is getting .2% of them.  Looks like bter has got a couple thousand dollars worth of nubits this morning.  Good for them, help them recover from that NXT hack.

This is the kind of volume we want to see in bitUSD.  Right now Nubits is being used far more than us.

sorry, but trading via bots is not used!
the only use at the moment is to buy Nushares.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Exchange bots are most certainly used to maintain the peg.

Tightly coupled walls, occasionally laggy APIs (or connections to those APIs), and rapidly shifting BTC/USD exchange rates don't always play nice together. We've got a patch being tested now that should significantly reduce the chances that it happens. Even today it's very uncommon, occuring in less than 0.5% of wall shifts -- but as it was pointed out in a prior comment, it's costly because it leads to conversations like this one and fees being paid to exchanges for trades that didn't need to happen.