Author Topic: BitShares Music non-technical paper. Updated.  (Read 15933 times)

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Offline starspirit

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What determines the price of a song?

The artist.

What determines the price of an Iphone cover on ebay? The seller!
ebay has no say in how much a product sells for on their platform.

I think this decision could be a mistake. The market should determine the price of a product or service rather than the seller. I do understand why you would want artists to try and determine it but it's likely that if the artists get it wrong then it would encourage piracy or fans simply wont buy it at all.

Can we have a market based option for artists who want to let the market or the fans determine the price?


I believe each artist would make a realistic price. If he/she prices the song high, he/she will have less sales but higher margin (and getting high-spenders).  In the end, the market demand will influence the artist in his/her pricing decision. And the artists can select the market segment they like to serve.
And presumably the artist could change their price couldn't they? So if they are not getting the immediate result they want, they just move price to what the market will take. The market determines the result in the end anyway.

Offline cube

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What determines the price of a song?

The artist.

What determines the price of an Iphone cover on ebay? The seller!
ebay has no say in how much a product sells for on their platform.

I think this decision could be a mistake. The market should determine the price of a product or service rather than the seller. I do understand why you would want artists to try and determine it but it's likely that if the artists get it wrong then it would encourage piracy or fans simply wont buy it at all.

Can we have a market based option for artists who want to let the market or the fans determine the price?


I believe each artist would make a realistic price. If he/she prices the song high, he/she will have less sales but higher margin (and getting high-spenders).  In the end, the market demand will influence the artist in his/her pricing decision. And the artists can select the market segment they like to serve.
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Offline joele

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I personally hope that music stays separate from the super dac but figures out a way to use BitUSD from the super dac chain.
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Offline matt608

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Should there be a maintain fee for artist coins like suggested by Alt here?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11316.0

Is there anything stopping an artist selling their artist coins directly to their fans on their own website and not using bitUSD, resulting in NOTE holders getting nothing?

Many artists would want to sell their artist coins to their fans this way, rather than having a new link to promote to a peertracks URL.

I have concerns about how NOTEs gain value.  Depending on a tiny fee when a track is bought on peertracks seems not enough. 

What if 1% of all artist coins were snapshotted to NOTE holders?  They could be vested, with a gradual release time.  That would be a much better source of income.  Note holders could get to log in with their steak to access their many artist coins. 

Also I would vote in favour of merging with BTS and using the BTS blockchain.  It's a bit of a shame this isn't what happened already.  Keeping up with another 101 delegates will be really annoying, and it creates the issue of peertracks bitUSD keeping to its peg and having to attract shorters to have that market functioning. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 07:09:34 pm by matt608 »

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Offline luckybit

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What determines the price of a song?

The artist.

What determines the price of an Iphone cover on ebay? The seller!
ebay has no say in how much a product sells for on their platform.

I think this decision could be a mistake. The market should determine the price of a product or service rather than the seller. I do understand why you would want artists to try and determine it but it's likely that if the artists get it wrong then it would encourage piracy or fans simply wont buy it at all.

Can we have a market based option for artists who want to let the market or the fans determine the price?


We should create a ranking/tracking system like Billboards is to music in general. Would have create a ranking algorithm like google search that tracks, downloads, streams, votes, and other engagement metrics to rank the artist. This would create a good competition between the artist and their fans. This all leads up to some king of awards shows like the Grammy/AMAs.

I think having a scripting language would be better than hard coding something like this. It's a mere sort algorithm is what you're talking about and if you have scripting language capabilities then I could write a sort algorithm once and have them work on all the similar DACs.

What determines the price of a song?

The artist.

What determines the price of an Iphone cover on ebay? The seller!
ebay has no say in how much a product sells for on their platform.

Is there any other selling model? For example, Google Music has 'monthly subscription' that you can listen to whatever you want with $9.99/month. In Taiwan, east asia and many other places, people would prefer this model than paying for each song. Considering this mode does not mean to invest any specific artist, I think the fee for monthly subscription should charged as Notes, and then:
1. shared between artists.
2. or used to buy and burn artistcoins of songs that were listened.

It might be too ambitious to roll out all at once, but I do see potential for multiple streams of income.  In a subscription based (or free ad based) model, you can pay the artist in proportion to how many listens they received, while using a weighting system to increase the pay/airtime on artists who get voted up while decreasing the pay/airtime for those who get voted down.   

The subscription model doesn't make any money for artists. The ad model is the worst model you could go with if the idea is to attract artists.

The market based approaches are interesting but untested. I think for artists familiar with the way of altcoins will prefer the market based approaches. I think the traditional approaches would be great for industry artists who are more familiar with that.

I think flexibility and all kinds of payment approaches should be offered. One of the benefits of this technology is that you can do all kinds of different approaches and it's not one sized fits all. You can do micropayments in a fair way but you can also turn the music itself into a commodity.

I would suggest that we find a way to get a Turing complete scripting language set up so that you can do all sorts of different smart contracts between artist and fans. I would also suggest that the development team put in as many different options for artists as they can at launch and simply make the default options the most simple. This way artists feel like there is unlimited flexibility to try new ideas while also having the simple defaults which are familiar.

What determines the price of a song?

The artist.

What determines the price of an Iphone cover on ebay? The seller!
ebay has no say in how much a product sells for on their platform.

Is there any other selling model? For example, Google Music has 'monthly subscription' that you can listen to whatever you want with $9.99/month. In Taiwan, east asia and many other places, people would prefer this model than paying for each song. Considering this mode does not mean to invest any specific artist, I think the fee for monthly subscription should charged as Notes, and then:
1. shared between artists.
2. or used to buy and burn artistcoins of songs that were listened.

I think we need more flexibility by far. Some artists would rather trust the market and simply release their coin to the fans so the fans can use price discovery mechanisms. Other artists may want to go with more industry familiar models.

I think considering that you're presenting a very unorthodox market based technology why remove all the most innovative features and water it down? I'd like to see market based approaches to price discovery for artists who prefer this. Also for fans who would prefer to use market based approaches it should be there.

Subscription based approaches don't make any sense unless it's subscription to individual artist channels. Why would people come from the regular business models onto this technology only to go with a subscription? Having said that I'm not against the idea if it could be made to work. Maybe do it so that the fans automatically buy a certain amount of artist coin each month in the artists they really believe in.

This would be something like a recurring payment.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 06:27:41 pm by luckybit »
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Offline Pheonike


We should create a ranking/tracking system like Billboards is to music in general. Would have create a ranking algorithm like google search that tracks, downloads, streams, votes, and other engagement metrics to rank the artist. This would create a good competition between the artist and their fans. This all leads up to some king of awards shows like the Grammy/AMAs.

 

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Offline sschechter

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What determines the price of a song?

The artist.

What determines the price of an Iphone cover on ebay? The seller!
ebay has no say in how much a product sells for on their platform.

Is there any other selling model? For example, Google Music has 'monthly subscription' that you can listen to whatever you want with $9.99/month. In Taiwan, east asia and many other places, people would prefer this model than paying for each song. Considering this mode does not mean to invest any specific artist, I think the fee for monthly subscription should charged as Notes, and then:
1. shared between artists.
2. or used to buy and burn artistcoins of songs that were listened.

It might be too ambitious to roll out all at once, but I do see potential for multiple streams of income.  In a subscription based (or free ad based) model, you can pay the artist in proportion to how many listens they received, while using a weighting system to increase the pay/airtime on artists who get voted up while decreasing the pay/airtime for those who get voted down.   
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Offline 麥可貓

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What determines the price of a song?

The artist.

What determines the price of an Iphone cover on ebay? The seller!
ebay has no say in how much a product sells for on their platform.

Is there any other selling model? For example, Google Music has 'monthly subscription' that you can listen to whatever you want with $9.99/month. In Taiwan, east asia and many other places, people would prefer this model than paying for each song. Considering this mode does not mean to invest any specific artist, I think the fee for monthly subscription should charged as Notes, and then:
1. shared between artists.
2. or used to buy and burn artistcoins of songs that were listened.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 09:08:41 am by 麥可貓 »
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Offline oco101

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So peertracks never handles any funds.

Cob, does that mean that Peertracks definitely wont be accepting any fiat for music purchases? I thought the plan was to accept fiat which is use to buy BitUSD for music purchases on the blockchain.

If peertracks wont take any fiat, that means the only avenue for sales is from existing Notes holders correct? If I want to promote an artist an pump his artistcoins, I need friends to put in their fiat into his songs.

No the opposite is true....This is the main idea, music lovers put there credit card and they get bitUSD. From the user point of view they don't bother with crypto stuff at all. Yeah so your friends they don't even need to know about Notes. Whatever they wanna buy artistcoin or music they simply use their Credit Card that's it. Anyway that's my understanding so far.

Offline roadscape

Cob, does that mean that Peertracks definitely wont be accepting any fiat for music purchases? I thought the plan was to accept fiat which is use to buy BitUSD for music purchases on the blockchain.

If peertracks wont take any fiat, that means the only avenue for sales is from existing Notes holders correct? If I want to promote an artist an pump his artistcoins, I need friends to put in their fiat into his songs.

BTSX is getting fiat onramps and I imagine PeerShares will piggyback off their efforts. You would probably just transfer bitUSD from BTSX to Music through cross-chain trading. (Is cross-chain trading implemented yet?)

Edit: bytemaster said a long long time ago that bitGLD would be used for cross-chain trading. Interesting topic!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 03:51:59 am by roadkill »
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Offline robrigo

So peertracks never handles any funds.

Cob, does that mean that Peertracks definitely wont be accepting any fiat for music purchases? I thought the plan was to accept fiat which is use to buy BitUSD for music purchases on the blockchain.

If peertracks wont take any fiat, that means the only avenue for sales is from existing Notes holders correct? If I want to promote an artist an pump his artistcoins, I need friends to put in their fiat into his songs.

Maybe a fiat on ramp that has a seamless experience could facilitate this on behalf of PeerTracks. I wonder if that is the plan for the on ramp "funnels"? Imagine a checkout plugin that would automatically, securely convert your credit / debit card into bitUSD that could be used to buy the artistcoin programmatically. To the user the transaction would be like any other online purchase, peertracks would not handle the PCI compliance, they would just be given bitUSD as per the arrangement with the on ramp to programmatically buy the artistcoin.

Offline speedy

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So peertracks never handles any funds.

Cob, does that mean that Peertracks definitely wont be accepting any fiat for music purchases? I thought the plan was to accept fiat which is use to buy BitUSD for music purchases on the blockchain.

If peertracks wont take any fiat, that means the only avenue for sales is from existing Notes holders correct? If I want to promote an artist an pump his artistcoins, I need friends to put in their fiat into his songs.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:22:26 pm by trader »

Offline sschechter

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cob, will the artist only be able to sell songs (mp3?) on this platform?  What about producers who want to release products like loops and sample packs?  If this can't or wont be done in PeerTracks, will there be tools available that an artist can use to cryptographically verify a users coins on their own website (ie, automatic sample clearance / misc freebies for any holder of X amount of coins)?

Also, I belong to the Propellerhead Reason members forum (for licensed users).  I plan on writing up a post on BitShares Music and PeerTracks in order to gain some feedback from our target audience.  I will share any useful feedback I get.
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