Author Topic: How much is a new user worth?  (Read 56233 times)

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Offline Stan

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Sorry if this has been explained already, but can a bitUSD debit card only be spent in stores that accept bitUSD (i.e., nowhere?) or is the bitUSD sold immediately allowing all merchants to somehow accept it already?  Also which countries would it work in?

The intent is to work just like a pre-paid debit card with the low fees you expect from BitShares.  The merchants don't need to know its not an ordinary bank card.  They get USD (or eventually other fiat du jour).

Details are being negotiated. There is much to consider. Your actual mileage may vary (YAMMV).  :)
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Offline fuzzy

Sorry if this has been explained already, but can a bitUSD debit card only be spent in stores that accept bitUSD (i.e., nowhere?) or is the bitUSD sold immediately allowing all merchants to somehow accept it already?  Also which countries would it work in?

Yeah only stores that accept it I think. However a few weeks ago that was no-one, today they already have

1. 'Jenny's home made Jams' in South Carolina
2. 'Bido' A petrol station in Skagway, Alaska
3. 'Mellow Yellow' A coffee shop & a convenience store in Holland.
4. Unconfirmed (But apparently they're in serious discussions with a doughnut shop in Kenya)

And BitUSD has just started think where they could be by 2016, BitUSD could be accepted in 3-400 places easy I reckon.

I'm kidding :) I think it plugs into some widely accepted network. I'm also interested in the answer to your question but I think it will all be announced as part of a big marketing campaign. Don't know.

Now that they have a world class foundation, they are establishing everything needed for a marketing campaign that is full of truths instead of hype.  That is my informed guesstimate.

So glad we waited for bm to produce something amazing (reinventing the wheel, so to speak) as opposed to releasing something into the wild and then hoping they can patch it as they go.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 10:57:02 am by theFu.. »
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Offline Empirical1.1

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Sorry if this has been explained already, but can a bitUSD debit card only be spent in stores that accept bitUSD (i.e., nowhere?) or is the bitUSD sold immediately allowing all merchants to somehow accept it already?  Also which countries would it work in?

Yeah only stores that accept it I think. However a few weeks ago that was no-one, today they already have

1. 'Jenny's home made Jams' in South Carolina
2. 'Bido' A petrol station in Skagway, Alaska
3. 'Mellow Yellow' A coffee shop & a convenience store in Holland.
4. Unconfirmed (But apparently they're in serious discussions with a doughnut shop in Kenya)

And BitUSD has just started think where they could be by 2016, BitUSD could be accepted in 3-400 places easy I reckon.

I'm kidding :) I think it plugs into some widely accepted network. I'm also interested in the answer to your question but I think it will all be announced as part of a big marketing campaign. Don't know.

Offline matt608

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Sorry if this has been explained already, but can a bitUSD debit card only be spent in stores that accept bitUSD (i.e., nowhere?) or is the bitUSD sold immediately allowing all merchants to somehow accept it already?  Also which countries would it work in?

Offline tonyk

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Hope to see one of these in the near future  ;D

Imagine walking into any store and whipping this out to pay for any goods. Directly linked to any Bitshare account name of choosing, paying only with bitUSD (or any bit*** currency really).
And instead of using a "stored" 4-digit pin to verify the transaction, use Google Authenticator or receive an SMS one time use pass code (depending on what wallet settings you choose).
Or... just scan the QR code.

"Whats in my Wallet?" LOL

That design is awesome!

"That's in my Wallet?"
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline emailtooaj



Hope to see one of these in the near future  ;D

Imagine walking into any store and whipping this out to pay for any goods. Directly linked to any Bitshare account name of choosing, paying only with bitUSD (or any bit*** currency really).
And instead of using a "stored" 4-digit pin to verify the transaction, use Google Authenticator or receive an SMS one time use pass code (depending on what wallet settings you choose).
Or... just scan the QR code.

"Whats in my Wallet?" LOL


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Offline lovejoy

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The strategy in general is old hat. It will mostly attract frugal people trying to penny pinch. These kind of give-aways were unique 10 years ago when PayPal did it... not so much anymore. I see this as basically airdropping BitUSD on a strategically poor demographic. There are WAY better places to seed BitUSD. Example: Airdrop BitUSD on the OpenBazaar community (after integrating BitUSD into their code). This way it'll be spent within a community that will genuinely benefit from a non-volatile crypto and it has a good potential of spreading to other markets after OB success.  We get to piggyback on OB publicity, real demand is created for BitUSD, important eyes are on OB, the PEG is enforced through increased volume, etc, etc etc. See this post.

BitUSD integration with OB is certainly a winning tactic, however this is accomplished, I have confidence it will be executed with the same level of brilliance I have seen from this crew thus far.

But this doesn't seem to be an either or situation.  All fronts must be advanced upon, be they viewed as strategically importance spaces such as OB, or simultaneous forays into "mainstream audience".

Traditional monetary structures are themselves seeming increasingly "nebulous and risky" among large segments of the population who are not exactly mainstream and not quite crypto-core either.

I've personally recruited 8 non-crypto friends in the last two weeks to invest in BTSX with just raw enthusiasm and making time to sit down with them and show them how to get set up.  That was without any better on-ramp than plummeting BTC.

In an ocean of predatory financial entities, there is emerging a oasis called BTSX / BitUSD.  This is of huge social consequence which can hardly be overstated, and if articulated correctly to reasonable people I believe we can see significant levels of adoption among "regular folks".

Maybe I'm a touch old fashioned, but I'm pretty sure 'we are the network effect!' It is not some inscrutable magic process.  It is people talking with people talking with people. I'm sure there are great viral insertion points, but you never really know where that's going to be precisely, still you make your best efforts.

To reach folks on the periphery of our (crypto) world, some must be willing to go out and promote face to face.  I think there is no replacement for a person to person approach, especially at this stage of the game when the barriers to entry are significant enough to keep many out.  Having individuals who are willing to reach out to and walk new adoptees through the process, possibly earning a fee in the process, will be of huge benefit.  A good referral program could help to fuel such outreach, but obviously we musn't wait on perfection to introduce more folks to btsx / BitUSD

I bring all this up because I think BM's idea of a pre-paid BitUSD card would be gold in the hands of a sharp team of meetup organizers, and would pay huge dividends.  Online marketing is great, but outside the crypto-world, we're more in the heavy lifting phase of adoption efforts as far as I can tell.

4.I love referral programs because they are the least risky form of marketing.  You only pay once you have a result. The key is to clearly identify your result so you are happy when you pay.  I think Stan's suggestion of being a bank first and later a currency is profound. The goal of the referral is to get people to buy and hold bitUSD.

People trust people more than systems.  If I tell my mother that this will work, and she can put her savings in BitUSD and earn a better yield than with a traditional account, she will believe me.  She will believe in the system because she believes in me.  We must leverage our own credibility... the collective credibility of our whole community.


There are two issues at play here:

1) Should we issue more shares to fund marketing.

2) Is a $100 debit card bonus a worthwhile use of capital.

I see a lot of discussion on the merits of issuing new shares but almost nothing related to #2.

As to point #2, I see banks and credit cards offering $50-100 in free money just for opening a checking account with them.

One problem we face by being decentralized is to get shareholders to spend money on development. If I don't know if others will pay the cost, I won't either. With inflation and delegates we have to some extent solved this problem. However, another problem presents itself: If the cost is now and the return is later then shareholders can sell out now and buy back later.

While the first problem is lack of spatial consensus that we all chip in, the second problem is a lack of temporal consensus that we all stick around when spending happens. Perhaps like we solve the spatial problem by modifying the supply we all embody, we can solve the temporal problem by modifying the spending we all have to suffer.

One way is to have delays on the spending, as we have seen in many instances. Another way is to have continuous spending which essentially distributes the spending across time much like inflation distributes the donations across all users. Perhaps optimally, the "cost" of the spending should hit exactly when the return on the spending hits..

A good longterm solution to this issue is to implement Workers or Superdels; delegates that do not run servers/sign transactions but have a very high pay rate/burn allocation (budget).

A Worker/Superdel for each business function - Marketing, Legal, Development, etc.

Workers/Superdels spend their allocations to further BTSX interests (marketing campaigns, legal lobbying, new features etc.)

Voted in/out using same mechanisms as current delegates (security delegates).

Short term these business functions are funded from AGS donations; longer term AGS will be exhausted and they will need to be funded from BTSX revenue.

+5% There needs to be something in place to keep these business functions both decentralized and automated. A DAC needs to be constructed like any other business with the critical divisions you mention.

Really really intriguing ideas! ^

Offline emailtooaj

Sorry, I'm getting in on the back side of this conversation but is I3 in talks with a traditional "payment" processor for this debit card idea?
If so, linking a debit card to your BitShares wallet account would be a "HUGE" step in the right direction!!
Or is the idea you guys been talking about just using/issuing a "Pre-Paid" or "Loadable" debit card (like a Gift Card?).
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Offline Gentso1

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After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.
  • The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
  • There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
  • It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).
Am I correct?

Thanks for the bullets, MethodX.

Is this at all related to the credit card that can be paid off with BitUSD proposal?


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Yup, it's in response to the bytemasters original post at the beginning of this thread.

Possible to clarify the difference between the *credit card* and *debit card* proposals?


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That's the part I'm most confused about too. Everyone seems to think tue debit card can be used everywhere but (and maybe I'm just misunderstanding it) Dan has said you use the debit card to pay a credit card. That's why I was critical of this marketing initiative; five layers of complication make for a really hard sell.

please read this wiki to understand the differences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debit_card . They even mention prepaid debit cards. The biggest issue seems to be fees, The article says that the draw back of prepaid debit cards is that many have a per-transaction based fee.

Offline Method-X

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After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.
  • The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
  • There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
  • It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).
Am I correct?

Thanks for the bullets, MethodX.

Is this at all related to the credit card that can be paid off with BitUSD proposal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, it's in response to the bytemasters original post at the beginning of this thread.

Possible to clarify the difference between the *credit card* and *debit card* proposals?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's the part I'm most confused about too. Everyone seems to think tue debit card can be used everywhere but (and maybe I'm just misunderstanding it) Dan has said you use the debit card to pay a credit card. That's why I was critical of this marketing initiative; five layers of complication make for a really hard sell.

Offline carpet ride

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After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.
  • The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
  • There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
  • It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).
Am I correct?

Thanks for the bullets, MethodX.

Is this at all related to the credit card that can be paid off with BitUSD proposal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, it's in response to the bytemasters original post at the beginning of this thread.

Possible to clarify the difference between the *credit card* and *debit card* proposals?


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Offline Shentist

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http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoins-and-gravy-episode-36-airbitzco-openbazaarorg

good interview with Sam Petterson

after 46:00 he explains how we/you could contribute, so sounds easy to create bitUSD using, if we are willing to take money in the hand.

Offline Gentso1

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After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.
  • The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
  • There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
  • It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).
Am I correct?

correct it would be a normal debit card, as far as i understand it.
What is a "normal" debit card? Will it have a visa or mastercard logo on it? This is not such a simple question when you look into it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debit_card
Also when reading over the wiki they have a section dedicated to prepaid debt cards. The only drawback I can see is that their is normally fees associated with using the card, will these cards operate the same way using a fee based system for me to use it?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 10:05:37 pm by Gentso1 »

Offline Method-X

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After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.
  • The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
  • There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
  • It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).
Am I correct?

Thanks for the bullets, MethodX.

Is this at all related to the credit card that can be paid off with BitUSD proposal?


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Yup, it's in response to the bytemasters original post at the beginning of this thread.

Offline GaltReport

After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.
  • The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
  • There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
  • It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).
Am I correct?

This is my understanding.