How much is a new user worth?

[carpet ride]

After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.

• The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
• There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
• It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).

Am I correct?

Thanks for the bullets, MethodX.

Is this at all related to the credit card that can be paid off with BitUSD proposal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shentist]

After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.

• The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
• There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
• It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).

Am I correct?

correct it would be a normal debit card, as far as i understand it.

[Method-X]

After talking to bitmarket on the phone earlier I'm no longer against the original proposal. There were a few areas I may have been misunderstanding. Please help clarify them.

• The debit card can be spent anywhere a regular debit card can.
• There is an affiliate program in place to spread this. (If I advertise this program, I'll make $1000 every 10 referrals)
• It will be relatively easy for the prospect to put $1000 on the debit card (conversion rate should be high).

Am I correct?

[roadscape]

There needs to be something in place to keep these business functions both decentralized and automated. A DAC needs to be constructed like any other business with the critical divisions you mention.

And it would make voting more important, and in your best interest. It would be akin to paying taxes, except you could choose how much you want to allocate to Department of Defense vs. Department of Education, for example.

[Method-X]

One problem we face by being decentralized is to get shareholders to spend money on development. If I don't know if others will pay the cost, I won't either. With inflation and delegates we have to some extent solved this problem. However, another problem presents itself: If the cost is now and the return is later then shareholders can sell out now and buy back later.

While the first problem is lack of spatial consensus that we all chip in, the second problem is a lack of temporal consensus that we all stick around when spending happens. Perhaps like we solve the spatial problem by modifying the supply we all embody, we can solve the temporal problem by modifying the spending we all have to suffer.

One way is to have delays on the spending, as we have seen in many instances. Another way is to have continuous spending which essentially distributes the spending across time much like inflation distributes the donations across all users. Perhaps optimally, the "cost" of the spending should hit exactly when the return on the spending hits..

A good longterm solution to this issue is to implement Workers or Superdels; delegates that do not run servers/sign transactions but have a very high pay rate/burn allocation (budget).

A Worker/Superdel for each business function - Marketing, Legal, Development, etc.

Workers/Superdels spend their allocations to further BTSX interests (marketing campaigns, legal lobbying, new features etc.)

Voted in/out using same mechanisms as current delegates (security delegates).

Short term these business functions are funded from AGS donations; longer term AGS will be exhausted and they will need to be funded from BTSX revenue.

There needs to be something in place to keep these business functions both decentralized and automated. A DAC needs to be constructed like any other business with the critical divisions you mention.

[xeroc]

you suggest having 101 workers to sign blocks and some ADDITIONAL (say 100) delegates with technical/political/whatsoever business motivation?

I really like that idea!

[oldman]

One problem we face by being decentralized is to get shareholders to spend money on development. If I don't know if others will pay the cost, I won't either. With inflation and delegates we have to some extent solved this problem. However, another problem presents itself: If the cost is now and the return is later then shareholders can sell out now and buy back later.

While the first problem is lack of spatial consensus that we all chip in, the second problem is a lack of temporal consensus that we all stick around when spending happens. Perhaps like we solve the spatial problem by modifying the supply we all embody, we can solve the temporal problem by modifying the spending we all have to suffer.

One way is to have delays on the spending, as we have seen in many instances. Another way is to have continuous spending which essentially distributes the spending across time much like inflation distributes the donations across all users. Perhaps optimally, the "cost" of the spending should hit exactly when the return on the spending hits..

A good longterm solution to this issue is to implement Workers or Superdels; delegates that do not run servers/sign transactions but have a very high pay rate/burn allocation (budget).

A Worker/Superdel for each business function - Marketing, Legal, Development, etc.

Workers/Superdels spend their allocations to further BTSX interests (marketing campaigns, legal lobbying, new features etc.)

Voted in/out using same mechanisms as current delegates (security delegates).

Short term these business functions are funded from AGS donations; longer term AGS will be exhausted and they will need to be funded from BTSX revenue.

[CLains]

One problem we face by being decentralized is to get shareholders to spend money on development. If I don't know if others will pay the cost, I won't either. With inflation and delegates we have to some extent solved this problem. However, another problem presents itself: If the cost is now and the return is later then shareholders can sell out now and buy back later.

While the first problem is lack of spatial consensus that we all chip in, the second problem is a lack of temporal consensus that we all stick around when spending happens. Perhaps like we solve the spatial problem by modifying the supply we all embody, we can solve the temporal problem by modifying the spending we all have to suffer.

One way is to have delays on the spending, as we have seen in many instances. Another way is to have continuous spending which essentially distributes the spending across time much like inflation distributes the donations across all users. Perhaps optimally, the "cost" of the spending should hit exactly when the return on the spending hits..

[bitmarket]

For all of the reasons already mentioned, the OB thing is very important to us.  In that OB thread MethodX posted, Nubits are already in there competing with us to get in.

The truth is we can both get it.  Perhaps we could share the development cost with Nubits.   We have a much better name. 

[Ander]

Thats good news.  Now we just need someone to do the coding work to allow OpenBazaar to use bitUSD.

[Method-X]

So what do we need to do to get these folks to accept BitUSD?

Nothing, we have to do it ourselves since OpenBazaar is an open source project. Each merchant will decide what coins they accept, so long as the code can support it.

Here's what an OpenBazaar lead dev had to say:

The beauty of OpenBazaar and it being open, is that you don't really need our consideration to do this, you can start working on it yourself or rally troops to help you with this great idea.

like it was said before, we're still getting things to a beta stage. Ideally the tools needed to work with BitUSD would be so similar to BTC that it'd be a matter of just replacing the blockchain checks for another one depending on the currency specified in the transaction.

It is certainly a possibility and the idea sounds really attractive as a way to get rid of the volatility issue. I've not read a single line about it yet, thanks for bringing it up. Didn't know about BitUSD.

http://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2i849x/would_you_consider_using_a_nonvolatile_crypto_in/cl0eokn

[Method-X]

Low risk, high reward.

This! Nailed it.

I think the community should give I3 a few days to get the hookers and blow through their systems.

If they are still not interested/willing, let's set up an escrow (I nominate MeTHoDx) and find a dev.

Anyone have thoughts on what this would cost?

Are there any forum readers that have the necessary skill set? Toast?

Retaining a dev is doable BUT we need solid multisig support first. According to toast, we don't yet have that but it's in the works.

I'll be the escrow if that's what the community wants, and do the best I can to make this happen.

[roadscape]

I agree with you guys, I'm just stirring the pot in regards to discussion of effort/reward.

I'm an avid follower of OB, I put the beta launch date on my calendar 

[oldman]

Open bazaar is great but a small userbase that even if we grab 100% it would be insignificant in the next few years.

Walk before you run...

A successful bitUSD implementation will expose Bitshares to a crucial (though perhaps not large) demographic of crypto-enthusiasts, investors and end users.

And let's not forget that OB, if successful, may quickly become one of the largest pools of crypto-users in the world.

I think bytemaster is saying that when BTSX takes off, even a successful OpenBazaar will pale in comparison. Perhaps we're thinking too small

For BTSX to take off, BitUSD needs to gain network effect. To gain network effect, you need a viral insertion point. Once a successful insertion point has been found and seeded, network effect takes on a life of its own, spreading virally to other areas. Snowballing.

Source: I do this for a living.

Yes, exactly this.

Perhaps I3 is going after a larger demographic and expecting the crypto crowd to follow.

This strategy has a lot of merit given the push-back from the Bitcoin crowd on 2.0 platforms.

Marketing funds may very well produce more value if spent on engaging large demographics of non-Bitcoin zealots.

However, a situation like OB is unique because they are open to 2.0 tech... and interested.

There is no wall to break down, and the input costs are very low (some dev time).

Low risk, high reward.

I think the community should give I3 a few days to get the hookers and blow through their systems.

If they are still not interested/willing, let's set up an escrow (I nominate MeTHoDx) and find a dev.

Anyone have thoughts on what this would cost?

Are there any forum readers that have the necessary skill set? Toast?

[Method-X]

For BTSX to take off, BitUSD needs to gain network effect. To gain network effect, you need a viral insertion point. Once a successful insertion point has been found and seeded, network effect takes on a life of its own, spreading virally to other areas. Snowballing.

I see where you're coming from, I'm just saying what could be more viral than a decentralized bank with interest higher that can't be beat? The fiat onramps are exactly what we need, and that's precisely what the team is working on.

Fiat onramps are absolutely critical. Nobody is arguing against them. My point is, we need organic demand before anyone will even use said onramps.