How much is a new user worth?

[santaclause102]

Suppose this could happen this year or Q1 2015?

You still haven't addressed the biggest concern from my post:

Bytemaster, you shouldn't be seriously considering your proposal until you first:

• Build a stable, user-friendly, lightweight client on major desktop/laptop/mobile platforms.
• Enable important security features such as: cold storage with offline transaction signing, multisig with companies that support it in the style of BitGo, user-friendly ways of setting up the cold storage and paper backups and even splitting and sharing backup keys to trusted friends and family using secret sharing cryptography.
• Get more exchanges in various jurisdictions around the world (especially in the US) that allow direct exchange of Currency/BitCurrency pairs.

Will these all be accomplished BEFORE Q1 2015 or whenever you want to implement this proposal of yours? And if you want it funded through dilution you better also put sensible hard caps into the client and ideally allow shareholders to control that cap through majority vote.

I would of course prefer all the other suggestions I made in my post, but those are less critical to have than the above bullet points before implementing a system like the one you describe in the OP.

This and arhag's original seem very valuable considerations to me!

[bitcoinba]

Can we do the debit card thing without the $100 bonus first?

 

If this is to be done at all it should be done without such a high affiliate commission. The only clear winner in this that I can see is the affiliate marketer who gets a state-of-the-art product to "email market" to their databases. Everyone else takes risk with an unclear benefit, if any.

[Stan]

This might have scared some away: "- the friend will send the USD to Invictus..."

Don't think Invictus wants to do that.  Lots of legalities there.

Invictus is just a Hong Kong based digital asset holding company that manages the BitShares Trust.  It funds R&D, education, and marketing to grow a new industry.  Period.

[mint chocolate chip]

So using this pre-paid card would give me effectively $1,100 for every $1,000 I spend? If I understand that correctly I like it, I like it a lot.

I am already imagining what cool images would appear on the pre-paid card...

[Method-X]

Can we do the debit card thing without the $100 bonus first?

[Ander]

And if you want it funded through dilution you better also put sensible hard caps into the client and ideally allow shareholders to control that cap through majority vote.

Yes, this is very important!

[Ander]

Suppose you could pay a *CREDIT CARD BILL* with BitUSD......
Suppose you could have Bill Pay mail a check to someone... with BitUSD...

Suppose this could happen this year or Q1 2015?

I think this is amazing and should be done, even if the cost is 10% inflation.  Same with the referral campaign.  This is a much better thing to spend funds on that increasing bitUSD yield or something silly like that.

I just hope we are doing as much as possible to limit the amount of dilution that is needed.

[arhag]

Suppose this could happen this year or Q1 2015?

You still haven't addressed the biggest concern from my post:

Bytemaster, you shouldn't be seriously considering your proposal until you first:

• Build a stable, user-friendly, lightweight client on major desktop/laptop/mobile platforms.
• Enable important security features such as: cold storage with offline transaction signing, multisig with companies that support it in the style of BitGo, user-friendly ways of setting up the cold storage and paper backups and even splitting and sharing backup keys to trusted friends and family using secret sharing cryptography.
• Get more exchanges in various jurisdictions around the world (especially in the US) that allow direct exchange of Currency/BitCurrency pairs.

Will these all be accomplished BEFORE Q1 2015 or whenever you want to implement this proposal of yours? And if you want it funded through dilution you better also put sensible hard caps into the client and ideally allow shareholders to control that cap through majority vote.

I would of course prefer all the other suggestions I made in my post, but those are less critical to have than the above bullet points before implementing a system like the one you describe in the OP.

[GaltReport]

Suppose you could pay a *CREDIT CARD BILL* with BitUSD......
Suppose you could have Bill Pay mail a check to someone... with BitUSD...

Suppose this could happen this year or Q1 2015?

Oh, I like the way you all think...This is how you have to think. 

[bytemaster]

Suppose you could pay a *CREDIT CARD BILL* with BitUSD......
Suppose you could have Bill Pay mail a check to someone... with BitUSD...

Suppose this could happen this year or Q1 2015? 

[Empirical1.1]

The potential for inflation in BTSX does make a straight store of value (inflation set in stone) type DPOS crypto-currency more viable.

Previously this was non-viable & unappealing because BitSharesX fulfilled a dual role (Deflationary store of value crypto-currency as well as the Bank & Exchange DAC benefitting from BitAssets.) - So there could be a play here that spins off a crypto-currency. Maybe it somehow gets preferential BTSX treatment and could also be used to raise funds.

The problem is the best BitAsset system is the real $100 Billion+ baby, so spinning off a DPOS currency won't be much of a hedge against losing the great potential BTSX has but I'm just noting it would be more viable in the case inflation was introduced to BTSX

[GaltReport]

One downside, from a user-experience is that when you load the card, you no longer have the BitUSD in your account to collect Yield.  Hopefully though this would encourage them to get some more to earn yield.  I think this is a reasonable assumption.

To make it more like a real check card, you would want to load a card and still have the BitUSD earning yield until you spend it.  Then you would be earning great yield and have the confidence that you can spend it if necessary with your card.  Once you have that....unstoppable.

[Overthetop]

The topic is a good idea.

But,we can not get the Real Users just through buying...

As many friends have pointed it out ,making true value for users is critical to keep the real users.

and if we really need to get the idea done , I think it may be better to perform the task by a third party ,because it would be simple to cut  the whole thing off when things were out of control.

P.S : I think it is impossible to be done in china at present.
   

[Ander]

Some thoughts after reading the past few pages of this thread:

I think the idea of doing some sort of referral system is very important and should be done.  This is very exciting!

I dont think that spending money to inflate the yield on bitUSD is a good use of funds.  bitUSD yield should accurately represent the profit that is being made.  A referral system is a much better use of funds than this.


If possible, we should try to do this referral plan without diluting BTSX above 2 billion shares.  Part of the draw of BTSX as a crypto investment is supposed to be the fixed supply of shares, with shares being burned over time.   


How about the following idea:
There are two stages of the referral program funding.

Stage 1: Acquire funding from several sources:
* Ask for community donations of bitUSD or BTSX.  Provide some non-monetary status reward?   Donated shares will be used to fund the campaign.  (Actually, asking for bitUSD donations is better than BTSX.  It increases the use of bitUSD and doesnt create downward pressure on the share price)
* For a period of time, all burned delegate payments are instead used for the campaign.
* Use BTSX shares as collateral to create bitUSD, use that for funding (will require some interest payments).


Using this funding, get the referral program going with no inflation.    Then assess whether it is working effectively or not. 

If it is working, and BTSX value is increasing, perform a small dilution of a known, fixed amount, at a higher share price, to continue the program.  It is very important tha everyone knows in advance exactly how much inflation there will be, so we can still say 'there will eventually be a max 2.1 billion BTSX, just as we say for bitcoin that there will be no more than 21 million bitcoins).



Summary:  Yes on referral campaign, but hold of on dilution until BTSX increases in price if at all possible, to minimize the size of dilution.  Only dilute if necessary, try to fund as much as possible from other sources (profits, donations, shorting bitUSD into existence and spending it).

[GaltReport]

guys i think i had a brilliant moment to solve the funding problem, but maybe i am just stupid 

suppose we have a friend like bytemaster discribed.
suppose we can fund this marketing stunt and everyone has a chance to profit from it.

suppose our friend will make this kind of card available and he gets people interested to buy 1.000 bitUSD for 1.000 USD and with his promise to pay them for using the card 100 bitUSD

his customer will transfer 1.000 USD and he needs to buy 1.000 bitUSD to load the card up.
- he needs a way to change his fiat Dollar in bitUSD, so this is a job maybe Invictus needs to handle
- the friend will send the USD to Invictus and Invictus will load the just opend customer card with 1.000 bitUSD

so far nothing special

but how will Invictus fund the whole operation?

- so Invictus needs 1.000 bitUSD but if they use 1.000 bitUSD of their own funds they will loose a lot of money, because they wanted to hold BTSX for the expected rise

but we have a source of untouched bitUSD - so overhang on SHORTS

at the moment a short can only be done at the feed price. for the marketing stunt we need an option to make it 20% above the feed price.

lets make an example

- Invictus needs for the deal 1.200 bitUSD for the created possible liabilities
- at they moment they could just buy 1.200 bit USD (suppose for 31,5 BTSX ) 37.800 BTSX at the open market
- but Invictus got only 31.500 BTSX worth from the friend
- so now we need a "marketing" SHORT (i suggest as long as the deal works only marketing shorts are accepted) to buy 1.200 bit USD for 31.500 BTSX while the real price is 37.800 BTSX
- the SHORT position will be greated with a "marketing price" of 26.5 BTSX and not on the feedprice of 31.5

- Invictus holds now 1.200 bitUSD and can easily fund the liabilities without risk
- done

Assumptions

- Invictus finds a solution for the fake user problem (maybe it is possible to create a new kind of account. If Invictus pays 1.000 bitUSD on this account, the account will be granted 100 bitUSD via spending. Like yield?)
- same problem is with our "friend" it needs to be a reliable source, because we could easily fund with this way his entry into BTSX and not the entry of many.
- SHORTS are willing to create with this discount, and in the beginning we had this problem, because anyone was really bullish, now with this bullish mind set you can support BTSX with only loosing 5 BTSX each created bitUSD. Would a SHORTER be willing to do it? I think yes, because from the created buying pressure BTSX will rise in value and the short will easily cover his position with a profit.
- for this kind of short no time restrictions wanted

I think this could be a solution for the egg and the hen problem and it is a really win- win situation.

At the moment we have only the problem that we have not many who are willing to buying bitUSD from the creators the shorts. Now we match them and the SHORT creators are willing to go into risk, but say will profit from the rise of BTSX big time.

what do you think?

wow - got total ignored. so this idea is bad? no, comments? and i thought i found the holy grail

This might have scared some away: "- the friend will send the USD to Invictus..."

Don't think Invictus wants to do that.  Lots of legalities there.