Author Topic: Adam B Levine - Prove you are not a centralized gatekeeper.  (Read 4020 times)

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Offline gamey

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I'm locking this thread.  Since Adam answered it openly etc I don't want it evolving into more Us vs Them.  I stated my view, he stated his view.  I'm sorry if I have cut it off without giving someone a chance to respond, but I don't want another fighting thread starting up.  The answer to this thread will be had if and when I find shows that could be made to be high enough standards for LTB Network etc.  It will require some work and thought.
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Offline fuzzy

I am truly happy you aporeciate it xeroc but I am doing nothing others couldnt do if they simply chose to. But to speak to the last part of your comment (which is wholly correct), it is necessary to respond.  Family does come first to me.  In fact, I am so concerned about my family that I found the most ethical crypto project I could and volunteered to help them precisely because I want my baby to live in a world without bitcoin blacklists that turn into the mark of the beast. 

If this sounds crazy to anyone, ignore it...but dont forget at one time the internet itself was in a similar place to crypto and many "negative nancies" then warned about how it could be used to both empower and to enslave humanity...and were largely laughed at. 

If this sounds conspiracy theorist crazy to anyone here...just do a bit of research on fusion centers. 

Adam wants to profit from his work...and that is fine, but sometimes we should ask ourselves exactly what our personal definition of profit is.  Adam wants (has) power and authority, but sometimes we must ask ourselves if we become more powerful by shutting down competition...or by empowering others. My definition of profit in this ecosystem extends far beyond bitcoin and reaches out to the smallest communities who are trying to build a new worl and my ACTIONS prove it. If adam is a friend who is just trying to help the ecosystem grow, it would be best that he focus most his time on blatant pump and dumps run by mining cartels (but mining cartels to a degree fund his operations) stead of coming in here, consistently stirring the pot.

By all means, though, if others feel that him coming here acting like a lawyer trying to say that counterparty and dogeparty are safe investments and bitshares is SHOCKINGLY dangerous is a benevolent action...then live with your heads up your asses.  (Sorry stan)

« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 12:05:52 pm by theFu.. »
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Offline xeroc

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+5%
Somehow I see the ecosystem grow .. and THAT is a good thing .. no matter the direction..

Fuzz, you are amazingly contributing to this growth and i am really thankful for having you on board ..

+5% for publishing the history of bb and bbx ..


Edit: almost forgot: As I already stated to you in a 1on1 hangout some months ago (can you remember the good old tumes ;) )
FAMILY COMES FIRST!
That includes wife and kids and surely does NOT include this community ..
dont get me wrong, you guys are good friends but familiy should always be number one .. period
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 09:35:46 am by xeroc »

Offline fuzzy

And as for our "show", we have been around what...6 months? 

We haven't even gotten to see what delegate funding will be able to do Gamey.  Bitshares ME isn't out yet, so we can't even really make our own token (like LTB has) to fund development. 

It is also important that you go look at beyondbitcoinx.net where MethodX, GodsCreation, bitmarket and others are starting to use our content to produce articles about the bitshares ecosystem and where delegates for the DACs are starting to sign up.   I even received notice recently from a Delegate who wants to support Beyond Bitcoinx with 100% of his tx fees.  To say we are never going to be there is nowhere near true imho.   

Once I can actually show my wife I am making "something" out of this on a steady basis, I will be able to edit the hell out of content.  I'll also be completely finished with school in like 2 months...so that means I'll have more free time to do it.  I'm already beginning to make content like this...i just need time and of course the tools that bitshares dev team is working hard to build.   
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 03:47:52 am by theFu.. »
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Offline fuzzy

You've said that I rejected Beyond Bitcoin, but Beyond Bitcoin is in fact on Let's Talk Bitcoin! and the Bitshares hangouts have never approached me about being on the network.

And yet you're giving me shit, and created a whole thread about it. 

See my confusion?  What the hell are you talking about?

oh dear...

Time for Full Disclosure for the sake of all reading this who are completely unaware what is going on. 

I am going to state this as I know it and we can go from there.  Who knows...perhaps we can even lick some wounds and patch stuff up.  Regarless this post is not directed at Adam so much as at the broader community, though if Adam would have unblocked me a long time ago, perhaps he would have known a little bit about the details on my perspective before now.   

Adam approached me in the very beginning when I was setting up hangouts with Dan and wanted me to join LTB Network.  I did not want to.  Sorry to everyone if this upsets you, but I do not personally like the LTB centralized model...so I respectfully declined.  This was not anything against Adam or any attempt to hurt or hinder him in any way.  I simply wanted to help foster a model that I thought was better for crypto in the long run and that kind of acted as bitshares' internal media network to counterbalance bitcoin's internal media network. 

Then Arthur came along and joined up with us over at bitshares under the umbrella of "Beyond Bitcoin".  Arthur and I worked together for about a month or so and Adam liked what Arthur was doing with the raw content we were creating and then asked Arthur to come to the LTB network.  Adam did not inform me of this, but Arthur did (kind of).  I received a kind of shorthand message stating in no uncertain terms that Beyond Bitcoin was now going to be a show on LTB Network.  I have the message logs to prove it, in case they require posting here I will do so for clarity and proof.

When Arthur left, I was a bit frothy with Adam because there are far more appropriate ways of going about things and I was concerned that "Beyond Bitcoin" as a model was now at risk early in the game.  I felt (due to the lead up to this) that Beyond Bitcoin as a brand was in danger of becoming centralized around LTB's agenda (agenda is not used here as a derogatory term), but that is neither here nor there so let us continue.  After awhile of being frustrated with this change in events I started thinking about the model I had constructed for a completely open media outlet to serve the BitShares Shareholders (and beyond) and realized Arthur's moving could be a good thing.  The model was not necessarily hurt or hindered...Arthur was simply a Correspondent for LTBNetwork.  Great.  Sounds fine!

At least he would cover our content created here frequently as well, and it would give more access to a broader crypto demographic.  In essence, I believed it could be a very positive thing moving forward.  Of course, it should be noted that Dan (aka Bytemaster) was required to help me see this. 

However, as time went by, Beyond Bitcoin(LTB) seemed to become less and less interested in that model and Arthur and I only had very infrequent, though cordial communication via email.  I do not say this to demean people...only to say what is quite literally 100% truth.  I do not hold a grudge against Arthur or Adam for this, however.  Arthur wanted to make something of himself in the realm of crypto and become a personality...but he also wanted to make extra money.  This is something we could not offer him here at bitshares (at the time).  I did, however, tip Arthur (I believe) 15 PTS for his work here out of my own pocket... which other volunteers can vouch that I frequently do.  It isnt much, but until bitshares ME comes out (who knows when), we cannot have our own coin to use for tipping, hiring and such. 

As far as the difficult issues with Adam and the Bitshares "defense force", Adam for some reason unbeknownst to me started getting on the forums and really getting upset about bitshares not being launched yet, seemingly frustrated with invictus "reinventing the wheel" instead of just coming out with a product and patching on the fly.  Really came down to different development styles...for which noone can really fault either side.  He was also upset (please tell me if these are the wrong words to use) about AGS not being liquid (he was not alone, but he was in the minority). 

Some of his concerns were valid...but to be honest many were truly based in a fundamental misunderstanding on a technological level (for instance, comparing bitsharesx to Ripple in terms of centralization of power, not only in the forums, but also on LTB's show(s)).  This single example largely describes the types of the arguments that went on in these forums.  Unfortunately (on both sides) the discussion got extremely heated because Adam seemed in the minority on most of the issues and some of the most technically skilled members of the forum tried to explain to Adam how true innovation in technology takes time.  Building a solid foundation means that development takes longer.  Then it became them asking him questions to which he either had no answer...or refused to answer.  Adam can tell everyone which of those it was...because I cannot tell you from my vantage point.

In retrospect, I wonder if Adam was partially upset because he wanted to issue LTBCoin using Bitshares ME...but was not willing to wait.  So he ended up choosing counterparty.  At that point in time...it seems things were amplified even more. 

Now with that said.  Noone on these forums who was involved in this stuff is without blame and I get heated easily when I perceive attacks on Dan and the entire bitshares crew because quite frankly they have only given me reason to trust them. 

In fact all the money I lost (nearly 90%) on investing in altcoins early on have largely been redeemed by bitsharesx alone.  So it is good for newbies to know that if they see anger from the old timers here on the forums directed at Adam's critiques it is often because they never received answers they found valuable to their questions, or feel they were outright ignored by Adam. 

Long story...but it is here for everyone. 

I would like to make one final comment so all newbies understand, however.  I have never "made money" off of bitshares except, I think, approximately 3000 Cinni from CinniCoin's Dev (he gave me 25,000, which I distributed via mumble session and to Beyond Bitcoinx volunteers) and approximately 6 PTS I cashed in to give my wife to keep her off my butt for spending too much time "playing with bitcoin".  I am not paid by invictus and do what I do as a volunteer service.  I never wanted to "have my own show" so to speak...but only wished to breathe life into an ecosystem that would enable anyone to have the power that Adam has gained through the creation of his media empire.  I only wanted to help Invictus with a marketing issue it seemed they were having and give voice to Dan, the rest of the team and 3rd Party Devs in some form to help fill a void that caused a great deal of angst between and among community members.   

I hope this is not taken as an angry post...I am lucid and in no way angry at this point.  Just tired of always seeing this happen on the forums...and knowing that it only starts when a couple people come on here speaking to issues of concern. 

If you read the forums, you will see that many MANY critiques brought up by newbies and veteran shareholders alike do not bring such levels of controversy, and to be honest...many of those who are called the "defenders" actually have had plenty of their own concerns in the past.  The only difference is that they are not figureheads in the crypto-media sector of crypto. 
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Offline gamey

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Hes not going to critique your shows because hes not going to help out a competitor or he just has nothing negative to say.  Gamey as you are now in charge of the shows its also about distribution which you will need to think hard about in terms of getting the eyeballs.

It is good that he is behooving you, make things the best and defeat this guy.

When you plead confusion it makes people think the other person does not know what they are talking about.  A gatekeeper mentality.  He holds the keys so he can say if your on the list to get in or not, confusion is denial, meaning your not getting in.

First off Adam is not a competitor.  Neither Fuz or I, the 2 guys who put the most effort into the show have anything to gain.  I have no persona I wish to promote.  No agenda.   Adam's show will 99% likely always be better.  I don't expect to compete.  I do think though that a subset of the Beyond Bitcoin Hangouts could serve as an auxillary show that is worthy of the LTBNetwork.  Nothing more.

First off Adam is a competitor it is easy to see and he will win if you do not think of him as one.  If bytemaster chooses to stop doing the dev hangout and do the "Beyond Bitcoin Show on the Letstalkbitcoin Network" you lose a lot.   Therefore see the connections and compete or you will lose.

Uhh no.  I have a lot of things I wish to do in life.  This podcast thing is a slight divergence.  I just wish to maximize some of the better shows that aren't 1 hour of us talking on about DPOS and BitShares X.   That is no offensive to Dan, I just don't think it fits LTBNetwork's more generalized audience. 

Now that I understand Adam's stance on it, things will work a lot better.
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Offline eagleeye

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Hes not going to critique your shows because hes not going to help out a competitor or he just has nothing negative to say.  Gamey as you are now in charge of the shows its also about distribution which you will need to think hard about in terms of getting the eyeballs.

It is good that he is behooving you, make things the best and defeat this guy.

When you plead confusion it makes people think the other person does not know what they are talking about.  A gatekeeper mentality.  He holds the keys so he can say if your on the list to get in or not, confusion is denial, meaning your not getting in.

First off Adam is not a competitor.  Neither Fuz or I, the 2 guys who put the most effort into the show have anything to gain.  I have no persona I wish to promote.  No agenda.   Adam's show will 99% likely always be better.  I don't expect to compete.  I do think though that a subset of the Beyond Bitcoin Hangouts could serve as an auxillary show that is worthy of the LTBNetwork.  Nothing more.

First off Adam is a competitor it is easy to see and he will win if you do not think of him as one.  If bytemaster chooses to stop doing the dev hangout and do the "Beyond Bitcoin Show on the Letstalkbitcoin Network" you lose a lot.   Therefore see the connections and compete or you will lose.

Offline gamey

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Hes not going to critique your shows because hes not going to help out a competitor or he just has nothing negative to say.  Gamey as you are now in charge of the shows its also about distribution which you will need to think hard about in terms of getting the eyeballs.

It is good that he is behooving you, make things the best and defeat this guy.

When you plead confusion it makes people think the other person does not know what they are talking about.  A gatekeeper mentality.  He holds the keys so he can say if your on the list to get in or not, confusion is denial, meaning your not getting in.

First off Adam is not a competitor.  Neither Fuz or I, the 2 guys who put the most effort into the show have anything to gain.  I have no persona I wish to promote.  No agenda.   Adam's show will 99% likely always be better.  I don't expect to compete.  I do think though that a subset of the Beyond Bitcoin Hangouts could serve as an auxillary show that is worthy of the LTBNetwork.  Nothing more.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline eagleeye

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You've said that I rejected Beyond Bitcoin, but Beyond Bitcoin is in fact on Let's Talk Bitcoin! and the Bitshares hangouts have never approached me about being on the network.

And yet you're giving me shit, and created a whole thread about it. 

See my confusion?  What the hell are you talking about?

My perspective -  At some point you told Fuz something about you not wanting Bitcoin hangouts for some reason I don't quite recall.  I would have to paraphrase you which I won't do.  At some point we got into a little argument.  Someone pm'd us at the same time and we started bickering.  You ended it by responding to me and then going on the forum asking how to ignore people.  When I got around to responding to you it wouldn't let me!  It is obvious we're not going to be friends.  Now you act like you have no clue who I am.  See my confusion !?!

Given that background, approaching you in private is most assuredly going nowhere.  That is because you are a gatekeeper of a large set of eyes and a very successful news portal to the crypto scene.  You've successfully centralized crypto news with the concept of a "network" which is not even needed in the internet space.  (I am not entirely sure about centralized, just going off Arthur's views on soundcloud, I know of a few others, Cristof (sp?))  You deserve it, but I have to call you what it appears to be.  No worries.  We'll see if I am wrong.  I don't want any money/name fame so there is no negotiations that need to be held privately AFAIK.  I just want your users to have a chance to listen to what might be some interesting content. 

This actually behooves me to make a better show.  Thank you !

Again, I'm not even sure I'll feel motivated enough but it would be interesting to see you explain to me what is wrong with the show.  I like critiques though.  Take care.

Hes not going to critique your shows because hes not going to help out a competitor or he just has nothing negative to say.  Gamey as you are now in charge of the shows its also about distribution which you will need to think hard about in terms of getting the eyeballs.

It is good that he is behooving you, make things the best and defeat this guy.

When you plead confusion it makes people think the other person does not know what they are talking about.  A gatekeeper mentality.  He holds the keys so he can say if your on the list to get in or not, confusion is denial, meaning your not getting in.

Offline gamey

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Ahh I see there must be a submission method.  I'll look into it then.  That's my laziness, but from my memory we'd already been turned down informally, so I never bothered to look further.  Apparently I am wrong about my memory too.  Cool !
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Offline gamey

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You've said that I rejected Beyond Bitcoin, but Beyond Bitcoin is in fact on Let's Talk Bitcoin! and the Bitshares hangouts have never approached me about being on the network.

And yet you're giving me shit, and created a whole thread about it. 

See my confusion?  What the hell are you talking about?

My perspective -  At some point you told Fuz something about you not wanting Bitcoin hangouts for some reason I don't quite recall.  I would have to paraphrase you which I won't do.  At some point we got into a little argument.  Someone pm'd us at the same time and we started bickering.  You ended it by responding to me and then going on the forum asking how to ignore people.  When I got around to responding to you it wouldn't let me!  It is obvious we're not going to be friends.  Now you act like you have no clue who I am.  See my confusion !?!

Given that background, approaching you in private is most assuredly going nowhere.  That is because you are a gatekeeper of a large set of eyes and a very successful news portal to the crypto scene.  You've successfully centralized crypto news with the concept of a "network" which is not even needed in the internet space.  (I am not entirely sure about centralized, just going off Arthur's views on soundcloud, I know of a few others, Cristof (sp?))  You deserve it, but I have to call you what it appears to be.  No worries.  We'll see if I am wrong.  I don't want any money/name fame so there is no negotiations that need to be held privately AFAIK.  I just want your users to have a chance to listen to what might be some interesting content. 

This actually behooves me to make a better show.  Thank you !

Again, I'm not even sure I'll feel motivated enough but it would be interesting to see you explain to me what is wrong with the show.  I like critiques though.  Take care.
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Offline eagleeye

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You've said that I rejected Beyond Bitcoin, but Beyond Bitcoin is in fact on Let's Talk Bitcoin! and the Bitshares hangouts have never approached me about being on the network.

And yet you're giving me shit, and created a whole thread about it. 

See my confusion?  What the hell are you talking about?

Adam there is a difference between "Beyond Bitcoin" and "the Beyond Bitcoin X Shows/Dev Hangouts".

He is a gatekeeper it is simple.

yeah, i'm just going to walk away from this conversation at this point.  I'll say it one more time - Unless I've completely forgotten, the beyond bitcoin x show/dev hangouts (or as I call them the bitshares hangouts since they are specifically about bitshares and the name is confusing) has never asked to be on the network, and they certainly never submitted an episode through our open submission system.  They could do that literally today and then I'd have to make a choice about whether or not it was good enough.

But they've never done that.   So if I've never rejected them, and the part of the Beyond Bitcoin show that DID want to be on the network IS on the network for 10+ episodes with no oversight, etc.....

sheesh

That is not what im referring to as a gatekeeper.

You decide what questions go on or not, "the Beyond Bitcoin X Show/dev hangouts" anyone can ask questions in the shows.  Yours are centralized with certain questions being asked or not based on what you feel should be asked essentially a gatekeeper.

sheesh

Offline AdamBLevine

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You've said that I rejected Beyond Bitcoin, but Beyond Bitcoin is in fact on Let's Talk Bitcoin! and the Bitshares hangouts have never approached me about being on the network.

And yet you're giving me shit, and created a whole thread about it. 

See my confusion?  What the hell are you talking about?

Adam there is a difference between "Beyond Bitcoin" and "the Beyond Bitcoin X Shows/Dev Hangouts".

He is a gatekeeper it is simple.

yeah, i'm just going to walk away from this conversation at this point.  I'll say it one more time - Unless I've completely forgotten, the beyond bitcoin x show/dev hangouts (or as I call them the bitshares hangouts since they are specifically about bitshares and the name is confusing) has never asked to be on the network, and they certainly never submitted an episode through our open submission system.  They could do that literally today and then I'd have to make a choice about whether or not it was good enough.

But they've never done that.   So if I've never rejected them, and the part of the Beyond Bitcoin show that DID want to be on the network IS on the network for 10+ episodes with no oversight, etc.....

sheesh
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline Method-X

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I don't understand all the Adam Levine hate. Shareholders have a right to ask tough questions. If I were you Adam, I would ignore negative posts, ask the tough questions and also contribute in positive ways as well. At the end of the day, we're all just a bunch of nerds passionate about crypto.

Offline eagleeye

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You've said that I rejected Beyond Bitcoin, but Beyond Bitcoin is in fact on Let's Talk Bitcoin! and the Bitshares hangouts have never approached me about being on the network.

And yet you're giving me shit, and created a whole thread about it. 

See my confusion?  What the hell are you talking about?

Adam there is a difference between "Beyond Bitcoin" and "the Beyond Bitcoin X Shows/Dev Hangouts".

He is a gatekeeper it is simple.