Author Topic: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched  (Read 10291 times)

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Offline alphaBar

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2014, 07:34:06 am »
Some of the ideas proposed here are worthy of discussion for a separate DAC. These discussions should also serve as an indication of the difficulty in reaching agreement across multiple stakeholders when arbitrarily dividing or combining assets. PTS is one of the 2 prongs of the social consensus, and the stakeholders represented by each demographic (AGS and PTS) should not be tampered with. Both demographics are benefactors of DPoS (not just AGS), and this is why the treatment of the PTS upgrade as a "new DAC" is fundamentally inaccurate. As an example, if AGS holders decided to create a liquid AGS on a DPoS blockchain, it would be irrational to demand that PTS be sharedropped in the new AGS chain.

sumantso

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2014, 07:05:07 am »
I was going to suggest that. Both AGS and PTSers represent the sharedrop group which follow BTS. Unifying them gives a wider representation and makes it tempting for future developers to sharedrop on.

I would even extend it to make it 30-40% PTS, 30-40% AGS and distribute the remaining among other 2.0 projects like NXT, XCP, NEM etc. The NEM shareholder list in particular is quite interesting as it covers most of the Bitcointalk group.

In this way we make it easy for any developer to have an easy sharedrop target. I would even go ahead and ditch the 20% and ask for 'only' 10% to fulfill the social consensus. The idea is to make this as attractive as possible as a sharedrop target and would benefit us all in the long run.

I actually really like this idea.  Inclusive of the top technologies and a way to bring together many like-minded projects.  This would be a true evolution...however, I do not see many people agreeing.  Sadly, it seems it is difficult for people to see that the network effect gain from something like this would substantially increase the value proposition for everyone..  Instead it will likely be seen as giving to people who do not deserve it and therefore also "stealing" from PTS and AGS holders. 

I could be wrong.  Suppose we'll see.

They need to understand that getting a smaller part in 10 projects is better than a larger stake in one. Besides, there would be a different type of network effect at work there, if it becomes popular as a sharedrop vehicle, new projects would be compelled to honour it just to start at zero and not negative.

There may even be the optimistic case where they are competing to catch our attention and so offer larger percentages.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 07:21:28 am by sumantso »

Offline fuzzy

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 06:45:33 am »
I was going to suggest that. Both AGS and PTSers represent the sharedrop group which follow BTS. Unifying them gives a wider representation and makes it tempting for future developers to sharedrop on.

I would even extend it to make it 30-40% PTS, 30-40% AGS and distribute the remaining among other 2.0 projects like NXT, XCP, NEM etc. The NEM shareholder list in particular is quite interesting as it covers most of the Bitcointalk group.

In this way we make it easy for any developer to have an easy sharedrop target. I would even go ahead and ditch the 20% and ask for 'only' 10% to fulfill the social consensus. The idea is to make this as attractive as possible as a sharedrop target and would benefit us all in the long run.

I actually really like this idea.  Inclusive of the top technologies and a way to bring together many like-minded projects.  This would be a true evolution...however, I do not see many people agreeing.  Sadly, it seems it is difficult for people to see that the network effect gain from something like this would substantially increase the value proposition for everyone..  Instead it will likely be seen as giving to people who do not deserve it and therefore also "stealing" from PTS and AGS holders. 

I could be wrong.  Suppose we'll see.
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

sumantso

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2014, 06:37:43 am »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND

PTS is an existing coin, not a new DAC. PTS and AGS will both continue to exist as sharedrop instruments for future DACs. Messing with the allocation is a slippery slope and would result in permanent distortion of the social consensus. For example, if we sharedropped 50% to AGS for the new chain, then AGS would have 75% representation in 3rd party DACs since they would receive the existing AGS share, plus half of the PTS allocation. AGS holders are not diluted or affected in any way by this upgrade. The only way to maintain the original social consensus is to leave the allocation untouched.

You expect others to honour you, but are itself not bothered about it. Great start, keep it up!

Make it 50/50 and combine it. If you feel PTS donors are double dipping honour only the BTC part of the AGS.

sumantso

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 06:36:47 am »
I was going to suggest that. Both AGS and PTSers represent the sharedrop group which follow BTS. Unifying them gives a wider representation and makes it tempting for future developers to sharedrop on.

I would even extend it to make it 30-40% PTS, 30-40% AGS and distribute the remaining among other 2.0 projects like NXT, XCP, NEM etc. The NEM shareholder list in particular is quite interesting as it covers most of the Bitcointalk group.

In this way we make it easy for any developer to have an easy sharedrop target. I would even go ahead and ditch the 20% and ask for 'only' 10% to fulfill the social consensus. The idea is to make this as attractive as possible as a sharedrop target and would benefit us all in the long run.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 06:38:57 am by sumantso »

Offline fuzzy

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 05:41:44 am »
Why not just create a token that houses both PTS and AGS?  Let it be an evolution from the current token.  We could even call it "AlphaShares" or something to that effect. 

In this way, we are able to snapshot both PTS and AGS...make AGS liquid for the AGSers who tend to feel like they are undermined by special treatment toward PTSers, and are even more afraid their donations will be long forgotten while PTS becomes the sole sharedropping token.

Bring both groups together under a common banner and ask that 20% be sharedropped on these tokens.  This makes it easier on developers (only having to honor one ledger as opposed to two), joins two groups of people who are passionate about the project for slightly different reasons...and most importantly, it would help mend the divide that is growing in the community over this decision. 

Also...I think turning PTS into a currency is a terrible idea--why compete with bitUSD when you can have a very limited supply (say 2,000,000 split between PTS/AGS) that become worth far more because they now have a far larger portion of the community's backing?  Do we want this to be a currency?  Or an premium investment vehicle?  I only see one way this works personally...and that is with PTS (APS?) as a premium investment vehicle.   

These are my opinions of course...so I'm interested in hearing others.  I personally would support such a project though. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 05:44:19 am by fuzzy »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
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Offline testz

Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 04:46:45 am »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND

PTS is an existing coin, not a new DAC. PTS and AGS will both continue to exist as sharedrop instruments for future DACs. Messing with the allocation is a slippery slope and would result in permanent distortion of the social consensus. For example, if we sharedropped 50% to AGS for the new chain, then AGS would have 75% representation in 3rd party DACs since they would receive the existing AGS share, plus half of the PTS allocation. AGS holders are not diluted or affected in any way by this upgrade. The only way to maintain the original social consensus is to leave the allocation untouched.

While what you say seems logical, the irony is if you do not drop on AGS you will have violated the social consensus, namely that ' each DPOS clone should drop at least 10 on PTS and 10% on AGS'.... and while PTS-DPOS will be the first one to blindly violate such consensus, you expect everybody else to follow it and drop 10% on PTS-DPOS.

PTS-DPOS - The pure definition of irony!

What if in the next version PTS-DPOS, AGS will be integrated as a non tradable asset as a 100% sharedrop to "old" AGS? It will cover social consensus from your point of view?

zerosum

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2014, 04:29:50 am »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND

PTS is an existing coin, not a new DAC. PTS and AGS will both continue to exist as sharedrop instruments for future DACs. Messing with the allocation is a slippery slope and would result in permanent distortion of the social consensus. For example, if we sharedropped 50% to AGS for the new chain, then AGS would have 75% representation in 3rd party DACs since they would receive the existing AGS share, plus half of the PTS allocation. AGS holders are not diluted or affected in any way by this upgrade. The only way to maintain the original social consensus is to leave the allocation untouched.

While what you say seems logical, the irony is if you do not drop on AGS you will have violated the social consensus, namely that ' each DPOS clone should drop at least 10 on PTS and 10% on AGS'.... and while PTS-DPOS will be the first one to blindly violate such consensus, you expect everybody else to follow it and drop 10% on PTS-DPOS.

PTS-DPOS - The pure definition of irony!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 04:31:28 am by tonyk2 »

Offline alphaBar

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2014, 04:03:46 am »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND

PTS is an existing coin, not a new DAC. PTS and AGS will both continue to exist as sharedrop instruments for future DACs. Messing with the allocation is a slippery slope and would result in permanent distortion of the social consensus. For example, if we sharedropped 50% to AGS for the new chain, then AGS would have 75% representation in 3rd party DACs since they would receive the existing AGS share, plus half of the PTS allocation. AGS holders are not diluted or affected in any way by this upgrade. The only way to maintain the original social consensus is to leave the allocation untouched.

Offline Vizzini

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2014, 08:29:34 pm »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND

There should be, unless they plan to be the first DPoS coin to break the social consensus.

Ironic but true.

In order to follow the social consensus, that PTS 2.0 expects everybody else to follow by dropping on it, it should itself drop on AGS.

Actually, I agree with this. Either drop it to AGS or BTS holders. Otherwise, PTS continues without most of the community.
Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

zerosum

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2014, 08:23:51 pm »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND

There should be, unless they plan to be the first DPoS coin to break the social consensus.

Ironic but true.

In order to follow the social consensus, that PTS 2.0 expects everybody else to follow by dropping on it, it should itself drop on AGS.


sumantso

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2014, 08:10:26 pm »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND

There should be, unless they plan to be the first DPoS coin to break the social consensus.

Offline BTSdac

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2014, 10:01:40 am »
is there any airdrop to AGS ,since all DPOS developing expense is from AGS FUND 
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091

zerosum

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2014, 09:54:39 am »
is it the first altcoin of dpos

Splitting the 3rd place with Sparkle.

1. RPCD
2. PLAY
3. Sparkle and PTS 2.0

Offline BTSdac

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Re: [ANN] BitShares-PTS Dry Run #1 launched
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2014, 09:50:31 am »
is it the first altcoin of dpos
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091