Author Topic: Margin Call Price  (Read 4763 times)

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Offline topcandle

Why don't we use global forced settlement?
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Offline habeler

I hope there is some kind of protection built in like averaging if the price feed is using only poloniex. The buy support there is very thin and it can get wiped out at any moment. Even if someone with a big long panics and closes the margin it will cascade and drop BTS to almost 0.
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bts-habeler876

Offline mike623317

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Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded

Any ideas when they become operational?
 :-\

Offline Troglodactyl

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many people hurt by this,  many of them even don't know they have lost, their BTS  have been selled at price 0.0193CNY/BTS even they have 2.75X reserve
I think we need a long time to recover...
so sad we action late

Sooner certainly would have been better, but there's still 111,550.17 BitUSD in existence, so which indicates that we managed to save most shorters' collateral from being dumped.  Does anyone know how much was actually force bought at 150%?

I really hope all the shorters who were liquidated can recover, but I think we stopped it in time to save the network.  The good news is that other than that serious issue, the 2.0 launch seems to have gone amazingly well.  It's probably a good thing that we now have a chance to stabilize our processes and polish the user interface before the referral program starts bringing in new users.

Offline Chuckone

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I updated the collateral on an old expired USD short in BTS0.9 this morning. I wasn't margin called, but having a ton of collateral did help..

I feel the loss of those who were margin called...

I'm an eternal optimist though. It's time to short at those prices and get some liquidity in this market. I have an open sell order for USD on the DEX, freshly shorted! I hope a lot of people are able to import their keys and get their wallet working soon, I would like to see some action and big buy/sell walls  ;)

To prevent being margin called I prefer to put more collateral than required since there seems to be a lot of volatility, and I'm not always keeping an eye on my collateral ratio. Before the price gets more stable and less prone to manipulation, better be safe than sorry.

Offline knircky

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Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...

Clout what was your collateral? 

If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough.  It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.

I think that is what i have learned as well. However that is a really shitty deal for the shorter. Generally why short in this market in the first place. The margin call needs to be adjusted much more aggressively in favor of the shorter. It seems to me everything has been designed in favor of the USD holder while we need something that is a bit more balanced.

Offline knircky

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There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.

Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.

BTS 2.0 Works.  This post has been misdirecting people.  3X will go very far, maybe into 8.88MM.  If that doesn't suit you then do 6X's.  Your shorting it, and it will help peopel buy USD and bring Liquidity to the market.

Otherwise NOTHING is WRONG. 

STAY CALM... BTS 2.0 WORKS.

Well  aside from driving strong bulls (read true believers ) out of their BTS positions for 50% loss (let me put it more correctly - forcing them to sell at .66 the fair price) without any sign and warning.... it does.

Precisely that:

1. There is no place where the functionality is defined and explained. I played with this yesterday to understand it, and so far i still don't have a clue. Worse i can't read up on it.

2. Just because you have something that works technically does not mean u have a working solution. Example is counterparts DEX. The CP people tell you they have an awesome DEX and the only and first of its kind, but if you ever used it  you know it does not work. It seems a little the same way with BTS 2.0 when it comes to the pegged assets. Just like with counterparts this is the most important feature and will make or break this system and just ignoring the problem by saying it works is not going to be a solution.

Offline alt

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so that mean I have lost all collateral for my shorts from bts1!
great!
you should check it, not all short position have been force margin call.

Offline liondani

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so that mean I have lost all collateral for my shorts from bts1!
great!

Offline alt

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many people hurt by this,  many of them even don't know they have lost, their BTS  have been selled at price 0.0193CNY/BTS even they have 2.75X reserve
I think we need a long time to recover...
so sad we action late

Offline lovejoy

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And it's done.  The sell wall has moved to 110%.  Congratulations everyone on dynamically managing blockchain parameters with no need to fork.

The MSSR does seem like a parameter that could be better managed by the committee members than by the witnesses, but at the moment I'm just glad it could be managed in a dynamic and decentralized way without too many bottlenecks.  We took a hit from this, but we're still learning how to run this, and it could have been much worse.

"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

Offline Troglodactyl

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I think we fix it

Indeed.  Now someone go tell the people over at Poloniex that it's fixed so they can stop dumping.

Offline ElMato

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I think we fix it

Offline Troglodactyl

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And it's done.  The sell wall has moved to 110%.  Congratulations everyone on dynamically managing blockchain parameters with no need to fork.

The MSSR does seem like a parameter that could be better managed by the committee members than by the witnesses, but at the moment I'm just glad it could be managed in a dynamic and decentralized way without too many bottlenecks.  We took a hit from this, but we're still learning how to run this, and it could have been much worse.

Offline Troglodactyl

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Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...

Clout what was your collateral? 

If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough.  It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.

Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.
You do not need 5x, you need 1.75 *1.5 =2.62x. That's with the current maintenance and squeeze protection ratios defined by the witnesses.

Several things are bothering me about the current market engine though:

1. Margin called shorts cannot force cover at a fair price, but only at a price between their call price and feed + 50%. In BTS 1.0 this range was from feed to feed + 10% (unless I misunderstood that too)
2. Margin called shorts do not use the holder's current stock of bit assets to cover, but always buy on the open market at a premium.
3. The market engine allows margin positions to be opened at 1.75 collateral ratio, a position that gets margin called right away (I now prevent this in the GUI)
4. Probably most important: no one knew it worked like this before yesterday pretty much (including me)..

Seriously.  Someone wake up the witnesses.  This is going to do very serious damage if we don't fix it now.

EDIT: Almost there!  Just a few more witnesses needed.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 08:11:10 am by Troglodactyl »