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Offline Bitstrader

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Search Engine, DAC
« on: November 23, 2013, 11:41:59 PM »

Reading through the idea's here has prompted me to just throw this out there for you guy's.
A company with a search engine could issue a DAC much like Protoshares are issued, user's of the utility could all be miners and have an account under their Kyhotee ID, when searching they could simultaneously be hashing, creating a wide distribution of the DAC, the company could accept the DAC for payment of services such as advertising, and by doing so they would be creating a reason to buy the DAC from the miners and also to accept the DAC as a form of payment. also the AP,DAC would integrate into this system as every engine needs good content.

Thank you to Bytemaster for the creative idea's here on this board, they inspired the thought above.

If I helped the gears of creativity turn your welcome to tip here  :) PdCHKpEdjqt7WRmGeuRmeyNkn8pzV12BSB

Offline bytemaster

Re: Search Engine, DAC
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 07:17:14 AM »
This wouldn't be a true DAC because it would lack value in the absence of a the search engine company honoring the coin.  That doesn't mean the idea wouldn't be a good plan for a real company, but it would have no 'life' on its own.

A search engine DAC would have to be in the business of finding the best search results for a given query.  To design this DAC you would have to arrange for financial incentives to motivate search queries to be answered with market forces working to ensure speed and accuracy.

There are far too many queries with far too many phrases for it to replace google.   Remember, a DAC must compete against centralized counterparts and thus offer higher quality, lower costs, or better trust, than the centralized counterparts. 

All of that said, let me give you some ideas on how a Search Engine DAC might operate in a truly decentralized manner.  First, lets establish a nitch: search requests for specific information that is hard to find via google.

Users could submit a transaction that asks a question and includes a 'bounty' for the answer. 
Other users could submit answers that risk money to submit.
Other users could bet on which answer would be accepted.

If no answer is accepted after a set time period all bets are returned, and 50% of the bounty is divided among the bets proportional to their size.

The only thing that is missing is a means reaching a consensus about how to decide the winner that cannot be cheated.  The key here, is that the DAC should provide a service by coordinating actions of anonymous people. 

Very challenging.


For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Bitstrader

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Re: Search Engine, DAC
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 09:05:58 PM »
Your right, its life would be dependent on the business of the company, removing the decentralized value were looking for.

Quote-(There are far too many queries with far too many phrases for it to replace google.]-Quote
If google was not an engine people could trust, or if there were far too many complaints about its methods of operation, those queries and phrases would not look like such a problem, nobody wants to fix what is not broken, but now if there was a problem you might see some very ingenious solutions arise.

Off the top of my head I cannot think of one query I might ever have that could not be found via google, now it is often that google points me to information that is not complete, but I imagine that it will show up in more detail given time, establishing a nitch would be difficult, and would fall back on arranging the financial incentive for the information to be submitted.

Quote-
[Users could submit a transaction that asks a question and includes a 'bounty' for the answer. 
Other users could submit answers that risk money to submit.
Other users could bet on which answer would be accepted.]-Quote
I am not one to gamble often, this appears to be something I would have a hard time with unless risk was minimal.

I have no idea how to keep cheating out of the picture, some minds will always look for a way to get an edge by cheating.


Offline fuzzy

Re: Search Engine, DAC
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 11:13:54 PM »
Quote-
[Users could submit a transaction that asks a question and includes a 'bounty' for the answer. 
Other users could submit answers that risk money to submit.
Other users could bet on which answer would be accepted.]-Quote
I am not one to gamble often, this appears to be something I would have a hard time with unless risk was minimal.

I personally like the idea of giving everyone who contributes a chance to win (I really like YahooAnswers).  The trick would be to find some way to award people points for asking the question, answering it.  That something could be like Cryptsy and Yahoo points where activity is rewarded, then have them be redeemable for coins (like BitCoin, LiteCoin, SecureCoin...etc from sponsors).  If there is a flood of users because of the great influx of different currencies, then so be it...it brings more activity to the ecosystem (which adds to the network effect anyway).  If someone cheats to get correct answers to people...that are voted up by the community...then I don't care about cheating, because in the system the right answer wins.  Accepting multiple currencies would add free cash flow and would give incentive to learn about different coins before choosing them as payment.  Algorithms would need to be created/utilized to calculate weighted differences in prices for different coins or it could even offer the option of being put in the genesis block of the most important code forks and provide vanity that come with that level of trust.  A good way to model incentives is to look back to good ol' psychology 101:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs .     

I have no idea how to keep cheating out of the picture, some minds will always look for a way to get an edge by cheating.

If there can be a way to make cheating add something to the economy it would help negate the downsides.  Potentially, a bounty could be put out on finding "ways to cheat"...anyone who can prove it first and give a provable means of establishing a baseline for the economic energy stolen from the community from them maximizing their profits from cheating will receive a reward 2x what they would make in a year of cheating.  That would give incentive for people to find new ways of cheating, to submit tickets and give their search urgency. 


Also...are all DACs connected to project Keyhotee?  As in, you need a Keyhotee ID to invest in a DAC or utilize the services of a DAC? Is Keyhotee a kind of a Fork in the Web?  Sometimes I think we are moving in that direction...and if we are, then DACs could give their own Keyhotee ID benefits to people who earn great levels of trust in the system. 

WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline earthbound

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Re: Search Engine, DAC
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 04:56:38 AM »
What if Search Engine DAC ("Distributed Autonomous Corporation") was framed thus? Brainstorming here:

The ranking algorithm is set in stone, open-source, and publicly available. (Perhaps the algorithm could evolve with human intervention by way of a stakeholders-elected board of directors and/or development team, with rounds of proposals for changes to the algorithm somehow democratically mediated? How?) The blockchain is the search engine index, perhaps including keyword rankings, reasons for those rankings, and also an index of keyword/key phrases queried over, say, the last ninety days (anything older than 90 days is automatically "pruned" from the blockchain).

"Mining" consists of spidering the web and updating the database, and/or handling user queries. (Updates to the database have to therefore somehow be tied to mining. How?)

I've thought through the possibilities of pegging an incentive to privacy (for example, paying a fee to the network to encrypt a query and the results--paying that fee in any cryptocurrency), but the fact is, anyone can create total privacy surrounding their search queries . . . can't they? If they can't, how could a DAC solve that problem?

OR: users could pay a fee to have no advertisements displayed alongside search results. (This begets a whole other problem, perhaps to be solved by another entity: "Keyword Advertising DAC.")

What Things could happen in your internet experience, Oh Users, which Manned Organizations have no incentive to offer you (for example, because advertisers will pay them more than you will)?

Ask yourselves, Oh Users of the Interwebs: what would you pay to change with your internet experience? Please answer this question! It is very important! :)

I think I'm not alone when I say I'd like to see more and more planets fall under the ruthless dominion of our solar system. -Jack Handey

Offline bytemaster

Re: Search Engine, DAC
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 05:19:06 AM »
I think the search engine should focus on revealing content that is being censored instead of being a general purpose search engine.   Users suffering from censorship could pay to submit a link and then a prediction market can be establish for the value of the content at that link.   The blockchain will then serve as a giant index of important information that is being blocked by google.

Users could then manually spider the links and build their own local index to search this censored content. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline earthbound

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Re: Search Engine, DAC
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 05:30:23 AM »
How to filter out users who would submit links not because they are censored, but because they want inexpensive advertising?

Also, I think maybe that idea would introduce dependency on large vested interests; so that when censorship is finally properly in the hands of users (instead of large vested interests--so that censorship is no longer a problem), the value proposition will collapse?

In other words, I wouldn't want anything correlated with the output of large vested interests.

(I'm taking for granted, incidentally, that everyone censors at least something. No matter what your stripes, there is always something which--if it were universally broadcast and immediately available to everyone--makes you uncomfortable, at least.)

On the other hand, that dependency can be exploited insofar that if an imminent collapse of the value proposition can be reasonably argued, you can first ride the bubble up, and then short the currency as it collapses, to make a killing . . .
I think I'm not alone when I say I'd like to see more and more planets fall under the ruthless dominion of our solar system. -Jack Handey

 

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