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Offline speedy

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Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« on: October 20, 2014, 04:53:24 PM »

I wrote about before, but it was buried deep in another thread:

So we need more revenue to fund promotion of BTSX. Before we resort to inflation/dilution, how about we try increasing transaction fees? Being able to buy 10000 BitUSD for just a fee 0.1 BTSX seems like I should have been charged more. I would have been happy to pay $2-5 for that trade.

Keep the current cheap 0.1 fee for creating an order, and just charge the larger fee when a order is matched. We could even do what the centralized exchanges do and give market makers a discount.

I think shareholders/delegates should have a vote on changing the transaction fee structure so that in these early days the system could charge more.

This is a much better way of funding development than inflation.

Offline luckybit

Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2014, 04:58:13 PM »
I wrote about before, but it was buried deep in another thread:

So we need more revenue to fund promotion of BTSX. Before we resort to inflation/dilution, how about we try increasing transaction fees? Being able to buy 10000 BitUSD for just a fee 0.1 BTSX seems like I should have been charged more. I would have been happy to pay $2-5 for that trade.

Keep the current cheap 0.1 fee for creating an order, and just charge the larger fee when a order is matched. We could even do what the centralized exchanges do and give market makers a discount.

I think shareholders/delegates should have a vote on changing the transaction fee structure so that in these early days the system could charge more.

This is a much better way of funding development than inflation.

I agree with you but it appears that the community is split and a lot of people want inflation. I don't want inflation any time soon but they do and in my opinion something like this should be put up for shareholder vote.
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Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 05:08:39 PM »
I wrote about before, but it was buried deep in another thread:

So we need more revenue to fund promotion of BTSX. Before we resort to inflation/dilution, how about we try increasing transaction fees? Being able to buy 10000 BitUSD for just a fee 0.1 BTSX seems like I should have been charged more. I would have been happy to pay $2-5 for that trade.

Keep the current cheap 0.1 fee for creating an order, and just charge the larger fee when a order is matched. We could even do what the centralized exchanges do and give market makers a discount.

I think shareholders/delegates should have a vote on changing the transaction fee structure so that in these early days the system could charge more.

This is a much better way of funding development than inflation.

I agree with you but it appears that the community is split and a lot of people want inflation. I don't want inflation any time soon but they do and in my opinion something like this should be put up for shareholder vote.

They have a plan for BitAsset network effect that basically requires dilution, money raised from others sources would not be enough short term.

Every new person that holds a BitAsset essentially increases the BTSX CAP by 2-3X that amount. So the more people you can get to buy BitAssets the better for BTSX shareholders and the fastest way to do that is to offer additional BitAsset incentives funded via dilution.

The second part of network effect is to merge BitShares into one main SuperDAC so that there is one simple to buy into BitShares that maximises network effect and gets all of the attention of key people like Bytemaster.

I think it is very exciting. I will support it. Despite having a lot of AGS, I think that as BTSX is by far the biggest CAP, that it must be protected the most and any mergers should err on the side of being more favourable to BTSX.

If someone else came up with a decentralised constitution enshrined hard capped BitAsset competitor I would hedge a little there, though that option would not be competitive as a BitShares DAC.


Offline monsterer

Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 05:13:36 PM »
So we need more revenue to fund promotion of BTSX. Before we resort to inflation/dilution, how about we try increasing transaction fees?

Delegates receive transaction fees, not dacunlimited.
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Offline speedy

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 05:19:09 PM »
So we need more revenue to fund promotion of BTSX. Before we resort to inflation/dilution, how about we try increasing transaction fees?

Delegates receive transaction fees, not dacunlimited.

Yes and the current proposal is for extra pay from dilution to go to delegates. No one said anything about dacsunlimited.

Offline emski

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 05:29:02 PM »
This will tax users of the system and will reward hoarders and speculators.

Offline speedy

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 05:38:26 PM »
This will tax users of the system and will reward hoarders and speculators.

It will only tax users who are going from BitUSD -> BTSX, and they are speculators which is no problem at all.

Other users who are doing BitUSD-only transfers for buying goods would not be affected.

Offline Pheonike

Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 05:40:59 PM »
They system should be as lean as possible in order to incentive people to trade assets. It's more important to have more ppl trading for less fees than less ppl trading for more fees.

Offline matt608

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 05:43:08 PM »
They system should be as lean as possible in order to incentive people to trade assets. It's more important to have more ppl trading for less fees than less ppl trading for more fees.

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Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 05:43:51 PM »
This will tax users of the system and will reward hoarders and speculators.

It will only tax users who are going from BitUSD -> BTSX, and they are speculators which is no problem at all.

Other users who are doing BitUSD-only transfers for buying goods would not be affected.

Regardless, I think you want to encourage not discourage BitAsset use by anyone in the early stages.

I have debated dilution variables for a month & have sympathy for and funds to invest in no-dilution option too. However imo at this stage it's a given BTSX will have dilution. Within the context of BitShares it is a positive as you get a SuperDAC and 100% of BM & others.

I think the discussion needs to move on to what is the best way to rapidly merge into a main BitShares DAC and move forward. My personal feeling is to get dilution into BTSX first, make it BTS and go from there. BTS shareholders can then make their best offer to the various DACs and pieces of the current BitShares ecosystem.

Offline joele

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 05:47:34 PM »
Additional burden to users, majority will not like it.
Why not just tax the Delegates?

Offline Rune

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 06:19:32 PM »
The ability to issue bitshares as a means of capital infusion will be an insane competitive advantage versus all our competitors. While they rely on altruistic programmers to donate their time, we simply pay for the best developers in the industry. While they have fund raisers for dogecar and other random things, we hire real marketing professionals with a proven track record to explode our mindshare and get our brand out there. We have to pay for these things, yes, but they will provide much higher value at a much faster rate than simply begging or praying for generous specialists to donate their time and skills to us.

Offline jsidhu

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Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 06:34:40 PM »
The ability to issue bitshares as a means of capital infusion will be an insane competitive advantage versus all our competitors. While they rely on altruistic programmers to donate their time, we simply pay for the best developers in the industry. While they have fund raisers for dogecar and other random things, we hire real marketing professionals with a proven track record to explode our mindshare and get our brand out there. We have to pay for these things, yes, but they will provide much higher value at a much faster rate than simply begging or praying for generous specialists to donate their time and skills to us.

Seems to be capital infusion to generate real growth... therefore capital infusion becomes the only way to grow... how is it different than fed pumping QE to try to drive growth/confidence?
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Offline Pheonike

Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 06:38:35 PM »
You must remember Bitshares is a DAC(company). One of are products bitusd is the currency.  If you keep those separate then its clearer to see.

Offline Pheonike

Re: Instead of dilution/inflation, increase transaction fees
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 06:40:31 PM »
Also bitusd expands and contracts as needed. Bitshares needs that ability too.

 

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