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Offline HackFisher

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Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« on: November 24, 2013, 06:40:16 AM »

As far as I know, Keyhotee has blockchain and need mining.

So, since Keyhotee ID is different from coin and share, it is for everyone, why will I continue mining on it if I am a miner?

Will I be paid? In what?

It was mentioned that Keyhotee is more like a application than DAC, then who will support it continuously running, is it decentralized?

I know the questions is a bit too much :), could anyone kindly help me to answer these questions?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 06:42:53 AM by HackFisher »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 06:51:24 AM »
Keyhotee ID's are mined by new people registering names *or* people who want their own name to have more reputation points.  So you can think of Keyhotee ID reputation points as non-transferrable mining rewards. 

Now imagine you are posting on a forum using your Keyhotee ID, many people may set their 'spam filter' to prevent names below a certain threshold from posting without moderator review.   If you are dealing with someone you have just met for the first time and their ID has no mining effort invested in it, then it might be a throw-away ID. 

However, if you run across someone who has a years worth of mining behind their name then you can be fairly sure they don't want to throw all of that work away just to scam you. 

Also, because you have to renew your name every year, every user of the system has an obligation to mine at least once per year.

Lastly, when you first register your name, you probably want to keep mining just to make sure there are some confirmations. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline HackFisher

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Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 07:06:30 AM »
Thanks for your good explanation, bytemaster. The design of reputation points and spam filter is very cool.

I'm thinking more two questions.

1. I know that Keyhotee Founder will never be touched by 'spam filter', besides, will there be some other special marks for the founders which can meaning another level of reputations? I'm thinking whether it deserves me to join it.

2. What will happen if some forgot to touch Keyhotee client, and not renew his name in one year? Will his ID be release for other to register?

 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 07:12:45 AM by HackFisher »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 07:22:23 AM »
Thanks for your good explanation, bytemaster. The design of reputation points and spam filter is very cool.

I'm thinking more two questions.

1. I know that Keyhotee Founder will never be touched by 'spam filter', besides, will there be some other special marks for the founders which can meaning another level of reputations? I'm thinking whether it deserves me to join it.

2. What will happen if some forgot to touch Keyhotee client, and not renew his name in one year? Will his ID be release for other to register?

If you don't run your client a least 1 day per year then your name will expire and someone else can register with a new reputation starting at 0.

Keyhotee IDs in the genesis block never expire so you never have to mine them or remember to renew them.  They are also treated special in the Keyhotee client, and forums may or may not choose to represent them different.   A keyhotee ID means this individual did more than just mine their ID, they payed real money and have even more to lose if their name gets tarnished.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline yago

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Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 08:11:43 AM »
How could the mining rewards and keyhotee ID to be non-transferrable?

What can stop me to trade my secret key?
http://bitsharestalk.org/donate.html  <---- Donate to the BitShares Forum ----> PforumPLfVQXTi4QpQqKwoChXHkoHcxGuA

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2013, 08:20:37 AM »
How could the mining rewards and keyhotee ID to be non-transferrable?

What can stop me to trade my secret key?

The fact that no one would buy a private key that they cannot PROVE you no longer have a copy of.   Sure you can share your private key with many people, but that will be a problem.

Furthermore, by default the Keyhotee Hierarchal Brain wallet is used to generate your public/private keys for your Identity and therefore, you would have to trade your entire Keyhotee Profile/Wallet and not just the single Identity.    Sure, someone could create a different client without using a Hierarchal Brain Wallet, but that is a lot of work to simply trade a Keyhotee ID.   The names you will want to trade will be on DomainShares.

Who sells email addresses?  Most people just change their address when there is a conflict, same with Keyhotee ID.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline logxing

Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2013, 04:43:03 PM »
If private key of my Keyhotee IDs(in the genesis block) is leaked,what shall I do?

After 12/25,how do I receive my private key,by email?
BTS Account:logxing

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2013, 06:13:51 PM »
If private key of my Keyhotee IDs(in the genesis block) is leaked,what shall I do?

After 12/25,how do I receive my private key,by email?

In December we will release a alpha test that will allow you to generate your keyhotee ID on the test network.  We will then use the public key you generate there for your name.  We will never see your private key.

If you lose your private key, then you can cancel your Keyhotee ID. Don't lose it.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline JustHayden

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Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 07:05:44 AM »
So I'm hearing a lot about this reputation point system, and if you scam you throw all this reputation away, which raises a few questions:

1. If someone scams another user in Keyhotee, how exactly can the scammed user effect the scammers reputation? What if he didn't scam and this other guy is just string the pot?

2. If someone has a mining rig, which can grow his reputation quickly, whos to say he wont scam a user with his account which has a high reputation, create a new ID, and scam again? I'm sure that system could be very profitable.

3. (connected to question 2) Assuming question 2 does happen, why is it that these people with mining rigs, which can grow their IDs reputation quickly, are more trusted throughout the web?

4. What if a scam is done outside of Keyhotee, but the scammer uses his Keyhotee (high reputation) as a vouch?

Just a few hitches I've thought about over the last week, hope theres an answer for these!
PTS: PjUAPsLu76Yi9516zFgHqtFYs2sBbAMwUx
Keyhotee: 7hQmwpf8ujy6h9jRkR7MPFqKNij3DrLifoDaemUUjaHLiUsy4g

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 07:23:47 AM »
So I'm hearing a lot about this reputation point system, and if you scam you throw all this reputation away, which raises a few questions:

1. If someone scams another user in Keyhotee, how exactly can the scammed user effect the scammers reputation? What if he didn't scam and this other guy is just string the pot?

2. If someone has a mining rig, which can grow his reputation quickly, whos to say he wont scam a user with his account which has a high reputation, create a new ID, and scam again? I'm sure that system could be very profitable.

3. (connected to question 2) Assuming question 2 does happen, why is it that these people with mining rigs, which can grow their IDs reputation quickly, are more trusted throughout the web?

4. What if a scam is done outside of Keyhotee, but the scammer uses his Keyhotee (high reputation) as a vouch?

Just a few hitches I've thought about over the last week, hope theres an answer for these!


1) The resulting reputation system is another layer for future development.   But for now think of it like a forum handle, your name is known in the community and people begin to trust it.  If I were to suddenly 'scam' someone the accusations could be found with google and others would come to know me as a scammer.  My only option is to reset my ID. 

2) Regardless of how much mining power you have, there is a limited nonce search space and limited block production rate.  As a result there is a limit to how fast you can mine your ID that is entirely outside your control.  More hash power cannot help you. 

3) Someone with a lot of mining power would have to mine many names all at once.  In this event when one name is labeled a scammer, they just adopt another.  This process is why you do not rely ONLY on this metric.   It is just one metric among many and the only thing it indicates is how much energy was put into a name.   Clearly a scammer could put a lot of energy into names to help his scams... but then again anyone who trusts this metric alone is foolish.

4) A traditional web-of-trust has the problems of sock puppets.  All mining your name does is increase the cost of these sock puppets.  It also shows that you 'support the network' and can serve as a 'first-line-of-defense'.     Web-of-trust systems are graphs with vertices connected by weights.   By mining your name we add value to the vertices themselves and this value is 'individual investment' or 'time and energy committed to securing the network'.    It doesn't tell you everything, but it does tell you something.

5) A scammer that decides to mine 10 names at once and thus pays for these names with hash power benefits the network and yet he must still invest in these 10 names in other ways that give them a real reputation.   In fact, names that have high mining behind them but no public activity, record, or real history may be more suspicious. 

In conclusion, extra mining of your Keyhotee ID may be useful for certain things or it may not.  At the very least it is a way of giving your ID credit for contributing to the network and I am sure people will find creative things to use these IDs for.   


For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline JustHayden

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Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 07:44:13 AM »
So I'm hearing a lot about this reputation point system, and if you scam you throw all this reputation away, which raises a few questions:

1. If someone scams another user in Keyhotee, how exactly can the scammed user effect the scammers reputation? What if he didn't scam and this other guy is just string the pot?

2. If someone has a mining rig, which can grow his reputation quickly, whos to say he wont scam a user with his account which has a high reputation, create a new ID, and scam again? I'm sure that system could be very profitable.

3. (connected to question 2) Assuming question 2 does happen, why is it that these people with mining rigs, which can grow their IDs reputation quickly, are more trusted throughout the web?

4. What if a scam is done outside of Keyhotee, but the scammer uses his Keyhotee (high reputation) as a vouch?

Just a few hitches I've thought about over the last week, hope theres an answer for these!


1) The resulting reputation system is another layer for future development.   But for now think of it like a forum handle, your name is known in the community and people begin to trust it.  If I were to suddenly 'scam' someone the accusations could be found with google and others would come to know me as a scammer.  My only option is to reset my ID. 

What if the accusation is false? How are we to determine if a user actually scammed, or if the accuser is lying?

Also unrelated,  when can we see screenshots of Keyhotee? I'm very interested in seeing the layout and how everything will work. I'm also working on gathering the money for a founders ID ($175 scammed in lingo, another $700 loaned out).
PTS: PjUAPsLu76Yi9516zFgHqtFYs2sBbAMwUx
Keyhotee: 7hQmwpf8ujy6h9jRkR7MPFqKNij3DrLifoDaemUUjaHLiUsy4g

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2013, 07:45:30 AM »
So I'm hearing a lot about this reputation point system, and if you scam you throw all this reputation away, which raises a few questions:

1. If someone scams another user in Keyhotee, how exactly can the scammed user effect the scammers reputation? What if he didn't scam and this other guy is just string the pot?

2. If someone has a mining rig, which can grow his reputation quickly, whos to say he wont scam a user with his account which has a high reputation, create a new ID, and scam again? I'm sure that system could be very profitable.

3. (connected to question 2) Assuming question 2 does happen, why is it that these people with mining rigs, which can grow their IDs reputation quickly, are more trusted throughout the web?

4. What if a scam is done outside of Keyhotee, but the scammer uses his Keyhotee (high reputation) as a vouch?

Just a few hitches I've thought about over the last week, hope theres an answer for these!


1) The resulting reputation system is another layer for future development.   But for now think of it like a forum handle, your name is known in the community and people begin to trust it.  If I were to suddenly 'scam' someone the accusations could be found with google and others would come to know me as a scammer.  My only option is to reset my ID. 

What if the accusation is false? How are we to determine if a user actually scammed, or if the accuser is lying?

Also unrelated,  when can we see screenshots of Keyhotee? I'm very interested in seeing the layout and how everything will work. I'm also working on gathering the money for a founders ID ($175 scammed in lingo, other $700 loaned out).

The systems for justice and arbitration of dispute are a few years out.   We hope to have software in your hands in just a few short weeks.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline JustHayden

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Re: Why will I continue mining on Keyhotee after create Keyhotee ID?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 03:12:57 PM »
Alright. I'm looking forward to seeing what Keyhotee can grow into!
PTS: PjUAPsLu76Yi9516zFgHqtFYs2sBbAMwUx
Keyhotee: 7hQmwpf8ujy6h9jRkR7MPFqKNij3DrLifoDaemUUjaHLiUsy4g

 

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