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Offline blahblah7up

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Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« on: October 21, 2014, 10:11:36 PM »

I have no idea.  Just curious what people think.

Offline Ander

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2014, 10:13:49 PM »
I think they should honor 20% of the new BTS.
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Offline Method-X

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2014, 10:13:51 PM »
They will honour BTS (BTSX). The whole concept has been simplified. Hallelujah!

Offline blahblah7up

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2014, 10:19:40 PM »
They will honour BTS (BTSX). The whole concept has been simplified. Hallelujah!

I'm not so sure.  Depending on how wide-spread BTS becomes (in terms of total holders), that would be more like share dropping and the crypto space hasn't seen much of that.  On the contrary, we already have seen some new DACs honor PTS/AGS.  For one it was always to be encouraged by I3.  That probably won't be the case anymore.  I don't know.

But it was supposed to be an elite group of users who might be in a position to lend growth to the new DAC (in whatever way shape or form.)  That could still apply.  I'm just curious.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2014, 10:21:32 PM »
Think as a 3rd party developer....

You would want to honor BTS... or nothing.... *unless* you think we have done something unfair to the extent that you can out compete us.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 10:51:58 PM »
Think as a 3rd party developer....

You would want to honor BTS... or nothing.... *unless* you think we have done something unfair to the extent that you can out compete us.

Seriously?  BTS owners see other DACs as competition.  There would be little value in sharedropping to BTS as those people have no specific interest in these things.  You've completely broken the value of sharedropping to a PTS like entity by mixing up the demographcs.  PTS/AGS were people whom specifically wanted new DACs.  BTS = 80% people who will have random views, 20% who are interested in new DACS.   AGS/PTS = people 100% interested in new DACs.

The keys will always exist for those who keep their wallets. 

If I was a third party dev and I wanted to play nice I'd give to BTS and make it vested over 2 years... Or I would find a demographic that would show my DAC support.

... but we'll let people figure this out as it all unravels down whatever path we're taking...
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline bobmaloney

Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 11:07:20 PM »
The PTS/AGS will still carry value - they represent early adopters with likely political and philosophical similarities - and if BTS ends up reaching escape velocity, they will also represent relatively wealthy investors.

I can imagine more than a few projects that would want to build support within a wealthy and connected group of anarchist or at least libertarian-leaning individuals.

While honoring BTS will satisfy the requirement to ensure support of the BTS developers and community, setting an additional amount aside for PTS/AGS holders may be an additional incentive that can realize more benefit than cost - depending upon project and goal.
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Offline emski

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2014, 11:10:08 PM »
I was wondering if it is possible for a 3rd party developer to honor AGS and PTS without III's stake ?

Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 11:59:25 PM »
Think as a 3rd party developer....

You would want to honor BTS... or nothing.... *unless* you think we have done something unfair to the extent that you can out compete us.

Seriously?  BTS owners see other DACs as competition.  There would be little value in sharedropping to BTS as those people have no specific interest in these things.  You've completely broken the value of sharedropping to a PTS like entity by mixing up the demographcs.  PTS/AGS were people whom specifically wanted new DACs.  BTS = 80% people who will have random views, 20% who are interested in new DACS.   AGS/PTS = people 100% interested in new DACs.

The keys will always exist for those who keep their wallets. 

If I was a third party dev and I wanted to play nice I'd give to BTS and make it vested over 2 years... Or I would find a demographic that would show my DAC support.

... but we'll let people figure this out as it all unravels down whatever path we're taking...

With Vote DAC now to be included on BTS, third parties can honour unique individuals. So you can sharedrop equally to 100 000 unique people based on criteria that most suit your DAC. It's really quite amazing when you think of the implications. Only young men 26-34 who describe themselves as Libertarian based in South America who are already owners of DACs such as... Etc. Being able to target unique individuals even if they want to remain private but disclose info by consent makes my AGS pretty unnatractive imo.

Offline gamey

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 12:12:00 AM »
Think as a 3rd party developer....

You would want to honor BTS... or nothing.... *unless* you think we have done something unfair to the extent that you can out compete us.

Seriously?  BTS owners see other DACs as competition.  There would be little value in sharedropping to BTS as those people have no specific interest in these things.  You've completely broken the value of sharedropping to a PTS like entity by mixing up the demographcs.  PTS/AGS were people whom specifically wanted new DACs.  BTS = 80% people who will have random views, 20% who are interested in new DACS.   AGS/PTS = people 100% interested in new DACs.

The keys will always exist for those who keep their wallets. 

If I was a third party dev and I wanted to play nice I'd give to BTS and make it vested over 2 years... Or I would find a demographic that would show my DAC support.

... but we'll let people figure this out as it all unravels down whatever path we're taking...

With Vote DAC now to be included on BTS, third parties can honour unique individuals. So you can sharedrop equally to 100 000 unique people based on criteria that most suit your DAC. It's really quite amazing when you think of the implications. Only young men 26-34 who describe themselves as Libertarian based in South America who are already owners of DACs such as... Etc. Being able to target unique individuals even if they want to remain private but disclose info by consent makes my AGS pretty unnatractive imo.

So if I use this system and select a valued subset of BTS and give it to my DAC, then that means social consensus is intact ?
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 12:54:24 AM »
Think as a 3rd party developer....

You would want to honor BTS... or nothing.... *unless* you think we have done something unfair to the extent that you can out compete us.

Seriously?  BTS owners see other DACs as competition.  There would be little value in sharedropping to BTS as those people have no specific interest in these things.  You've completely broken the value of sharedropping to a PTS like entity by mixing up the demographcs.  PTS/AGS were people whom specifically wanted new DACs.  BTS = 80% people who will have random views, 20% who are interested in new DACS.   AGS/PTS = people 100% interested in new DACs.

The keys will always exist for those who keep their wallets. 

If I was a third party dev and I wanted to play nice I'd give to BTS and make it vested over 2 years... Or I would find a demographic that would show my DAC support.

... but we'll let people figure this out as it all unravels down whatever path we're taking...

With Vote DAC now to be included on BTS, third parties can honour unique individuals. So you can sharedrop equally to 100 000 unique people based on criteria that most suit your DAC. It's really quite amazing when you think of the implications. Only young men 26-34 who describe themselves as Libertarian based in South America who are already owners of DACs such as... Etc. Being able to target unique individuals even if they want to remain private but disclose info by consent makes my AGS pretty unnatractive imo.

So if I use this system and select a valued subset of BTS and give it to my DAC, then that means social consensus is intact ?

I think social consensus for PTS/AGS was 20% or we may fork you, whereas I think BTS will fork any feature from a competitor that adds value to BTS regardless of equity BTS is given. Not sure though.

Offline gamey

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 01:11:19 AM »


I think social consensus for PTS/AGS was 20% or we may fork you, whereas I think BTS will fork any feature from a competitor that adds value to BTS regardless of equity BTS is given. Not sure though.

Good luck with the 'we may fork you' idea.   chuckle.
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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 01:39:06 AM »
Think as a 3rd party developer....

You would want to honor BTS... or nothing.... *unless* you think we have done something unfair to the extent that you can out compete us.

Seriously?  BTS owners see other DACs as competition.  There would be little value in sharedropping to BTS as those people have no specific interest in these things.  You've completely broken the value of sharedropping to a PTS like entity by mixing up the demographcs.  PTS/AGS were people whom specifically wanted new DACs.  BTS = 80% people who will have random views, 20% who are interested in new DACS.   AGS/PTS = people 100% interested in new DACs.

The keys will always exist for those who keep their wallets. 

If I was a third party dev and I wanted to play nice I'd give to BTS and make it vested over 2 years... Or I would find a demographic that would show my DAC support.

... but we'll let people figure this out as it all unravels down whatever path we're taking...

With Vote DAC now to be included on BTS, third parties can honour unique individuals. So you can sharedrop equally to 100 000 unique people based on criteria that most suit your DAC. It's really quite amazing when you think of the implications. Only young men 26-34 who describe themselves as Libertarian based in South America who are already owners of DACs such as... Etc. Being able to target unique individuals even if they want to remain private but disclose info by consent makes my AGS pretty unnatractive imo.

So if I use this system and select a valued subset of BTS and give it to my DAC, then that means social consensus is intact ?

I think social consensus for PTS/AGS was 20% or we may fork you, whereas I think BTS will fork any feature from a competitor that adds value to BTS regardless of equity BTS is given. Not sure though.

3I may not have the ability to carry out "we may fork you", especially when several 3rd party DACs are released at the same time.  Take one case as an example, I develop one DAC, which honor PTS/AGS 20% and BTC 80%, and then it turns out to be very very popular thus has more users than BTS users. What will happen next? Even 3i spend some time to fork it, the market won't recognize it.
Correct me if I am wrong.

To this extent, 3rd party DAC may honor PTS/AGS instead of BTS.
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Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 02:07:02 AM »


I think social consensus for PTS/AGS was 20% or we may fork you, whereas I think BTS will fork any feature from a competitor that adds value to BTS regardless of equity BTS is given. Not sure though.

Good luck with the 'we may fork you' idea.   chuckle.

Well I understand these changes could alienate some people.

I sold a bit of my BTSX partly in protest & on principal because I felt I was buying into a BTSX with no dilution and people like BM's full attention on the base development side but that the rules had been changed on me. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10240.msg134442#msg134442

However it's the same old awesome BM & crew and they're just doing their job of fulfilling their grand vision and ultimately our interest. I'm sure he would have not wanted to suggest DNS & Vote get less than X% or PTS+AGS<20% or dilute a hard cap like BTSX by 20%. There was an option for him to go and pursue the Super DAC with dilution via Vote, while fulfilling his minimum obligations to the rest of the ecosystem. The majority overwhelmingly wanted a merger instead. In fact the vision for 1 BitShares is pretty great imo. Of course some won't want it & everyone will be compromising a lot & each individual group will feel like they're the ones compromising the most, this is human nature. I'm sorry it's not exactly the same as you thought it was in the beginning and PTS didn't get the equity you're sure they deserve. I hope we don't lose your positive contribution. I hope we don't lose too many non dilutionists. I hope we don't lose the DNS'ers. 90% of me is still here. I'm really proud to be a part of this community and BitShares.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:10:36 AM by Empirical1.1 »

Offline sudo

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Re: Will 3rd Party DACs honor PTS/AGS in the future?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 10:34:10 AM »
how dare  to  broke the  social consensus for PTS/AGS 10% each???????????????????????
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