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Offline emski

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Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« on: October 22, 2014, 04:00:16 PM »

This thread is a good place for III to provide factual explanation to PTS/AGS holders!
I'm for the merge. I think BTS will continue to grow despite current disputes.
However I think a promise is a promise and it should be kept.
I think integrity is important and I believe most people will understand the following written "document" as I understood it the first time I saw it.
Any AGS/PTS investor believed in it and it was backed by @Bytemast, @Stan and III.

Thanks to sudo for pointing this out:

Don't forget the beginner's mind

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/BitShares/blob/master/LICENSE.md

Social Consensus Software License - Version 1.0 - August 10, 2013
Copyright (c) 2013 Invictus Innovations, Inc. All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in the source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following condititons are met:
1.Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
2.Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
3.Neither the name of Invictus Innovations, Inc nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
4.The genesis block of any blockchain must allocate 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allocated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares PTS proportional to the percentage of total BitShares PTS held. Additionally 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allcoated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares AGS must be allocated in the genesis block.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS OR ANYONE DISTRIBUTING THE SOFTWARE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

Now III can explain how is this non-binding promise fulfilled.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 04:07:27 PM »
This thread is a good place for III to provide factual explanation to PTS/AGS holders!
I'm for the merge. I think BTS will continue to grow despite current disputes.
However I think a promise is a promise and it should be kept.
I think integrity is important and I believe most people will understand the following written "document" as I understood it the first time I saw it.
Any AGS/PTS investor believed in it and it was backed by @Bytemast, @Stan and III.

Thanks to sudo for pointing this out:

Don't forget the beginner's mind

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/BitShares/blob/master/LICENSE.md

Social Consensus Software License - Version 1.0 - August 10, 2013
Copyright (c) 2013 Invictus Innovations, Inc. All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in the source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following condititons are met:
1.Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
2.Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
3.Neither the name of Invictus Innovations, Inc nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
4.The genesis block of any blockchain must allocate 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allocated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares PTS proportional to the percentage of total BitShares PTS held. Additionally 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allcoated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares AGS must be allocated in the genesis block.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS OR ANYONE DISTRIBUTING THE SOFTWARE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

Now III can explain how is this non-binding promise fulfilled.

That is a draft license not in the BitShares repo...  look at the actual toolkit license: 

Code: [Select]
[email protected] ~]$ cat ~/projects/bitshares_toolkit/LICENSE.md
This is free and unencumbered software released into the public domain.

Anyone is free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or
distribute this software, either in source code form or as a compiled
binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
means.

In jurisdictions that recognize copyright laws, the author or authors
of this software dedicate any and all copyright interest in the
software to the public domain. We make this dedication for the benefit
of the public at large and to the detriment of our heirs and
successors. We intend this dedication to be an overt act of
relinquishment in perpetuity of all present and future rights to this
software under copyright law.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR
OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,
ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR
OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

For more information, please refer to <http://unlicense.org/>
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 04:10:36 PM »
Don't you wish there was a smart contract controlling this? And then amendments would need to be voted on the blockchain. Ah... Too bad we are not there yet

Offline emski

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 04:18:56 PM »
That is a draft license not in the BitShares repo...  look at the actual toolkit license: 

And no-one can find reference of you/Stan/III stating that the license in OP is inplace?
And no-one can find a reference of the license in OP is invalid?

Then we are good to go... No written documents exists and there weren't any promises.

Online Stan

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 04:19:37 PM »
This thread is a good place for III to provide factual explanation to PTS/AGS holders!
I'm for the merge. I think BTS will continue to grow despite current disputes.
However I think a promise is a promise and it should be kept.
I think integrity is important and I believe most people will understand the following written "document" as I understood it the first time I saw it.
Any AGS/PTS investor believed in it and it was backed by @Bytemast, @Stan and III.

Thanks to sudo for pointing this out:

Don't forget the beginner's mind

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/BitShares/blob/master/LICENSE.md

Social Consensus Software License - Version 1.0 - August 10, 2013
Copyright (c) 2013 Invictus Innovations, Inc. All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in the source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following condititons are met:
1.Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
2.Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
3.Neither the name of Invictus Innovations, Inc nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
4.The genesis block of any blockchain must allocate 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allocated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares PTS proportional to the percentage of total BitShares PTS held. Additionally 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allcoated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares AGS must be allocated in the genesis block.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS OR ANYONE DISTRIBUTING THE SOFTWARE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

Now III can explain how is this non-binding promise fulfilled.

It is up to developers to interpret this and the community to decide whether they have honored it satisfactorily or not.  Our job is to provide well-considered recommendations and opinions to this community.

My personal opinion is that the Social Consensus is not a suicide pact.

SuperDACs will out-compete our original DACs and SuperDACs can only promise what happens at genesis.  After that, its under control of how shareholders vote.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline wallace

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 04:27:25 PM »
Stan, what we're talking about is not about this merger, it's about the future 3rd Party DAC
give me money, I will do...

Offline Xeldal

Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 04:29:33 PM »
I don't think the social consensus applies to absorption/mergers.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10214.msg135831#msg135831

However, any future DAC's who wish to, it will be difficult because pre/post feb28 AGS/PTS now have different percentage stakes in its replacement.

Honoring 20% to BTS holders would honor the contract for pre 2/28 holders but not post 2/28 holders.

I think its established at this point that there is no way to make it perfect. This may be most fair though.  I don't have any better suggestions that don't tip the scale in some other unfair way.

Offline wallace

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 04:38:19 PM »
I don't think the social consensus applies to absorption/mergers.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10214.msg135831#msg135831

However, any future DAC's who wish to, it will be difficult because pre/post feb28 AGS/PTS now have different percentage stakes in its replacement.

Honoring 20% to BTS holders would honor the contract for pre 2/28 holders but not post 2/28 holders.

I think its established at this point that there is no way to make it perfect. This may be most fair though.  I don't have any better suggestions that don't tip the scale in some other unfair way.

for future DAC, I suggest we should keep the social consensus - at least 10% to AGSer and at least 10% to PTSer.
give me money, I will do...

Online Stan

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 04:43:06 PM »
I don't think the social consensus applies to absorption/mergers.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10214.msg135831#msg135831

However, any future DAC's who wish to, it will be difficult because pre/post feb28 AGS/PTS now have different percentage stakes in its replacement.

Honoring 20% to BTS holders would honor the contract for pre 2/28 holders but not post 2/28 holders.

I think its established at this point that there is no way to make it perfect. This may be most fair though.  I don't have any better suggestions that don't tip the scale in some other unfair way.

for future DAC, I suggest we should keep the social consensus - at least 10% to AGSer and at least 10% to PTSer.

That makes perfect sense and is completely possible.

If you want to get storefront property in the BTS DAC-OS Shopping Mall, you negotiate a deal with the BTS shareholders (mall owners).

If you want to standoff and be independent, you choose the mailing list(s) for the demographics you think will best help your DAC succeed.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline emski

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 05:04:44 PM »
I was and I'm still mostly concerned about the bolded text:

4.The genesis block of any blockchain must allocate 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allocated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares PTS proportional to the percentage of total BitShares PTS held. Additionally 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allcoated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares AGS must be allocated in the genesis block.

I was trying to explain this in so many posts that you might think I'm a spammer. I'm not that concerned about BTS ownership of PTS/AGS. I'm concerned about the failure to fulfill that non-binding promise-like thingy. I think post feb28 AGS/PTS holders have the right to feel lied to and whine about that.

Actually I've said too much already given the fact my stake is really tiny. I'll not make this specific topic any harder for you.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 05:09:50 PM »

Actually I've said too much already given the fact my stake is really tiny. I'll not make this specific topic any harder for you.

Your opinion matters. How much you own does not.

Offline yoo

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 05:20:39 PM »
I was and I'm still mostly concerned about the bolded text:

4.The genesis block of any blockchain must allocate 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allocated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares PTS proportional to the percentage of total BitShares PTS held. Additionally 10% of the total lifetime shares ever allcoated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares AGS must be allocated in the genesis block.

I was trying to explain this in so many posts that you might think I'm a spammer. I'm not that concerned about BTS ownership of PTS/AGS. I'm concerned about the failure to fulfill that non-binding promise-like thingy. I think post feb28 AGS/PTS holders have the right to feel lied to and whine about that.

Actually I've said too much already given the fact my stake is really tiny. I'll not make this specific topic any harder for you.

agree with you, pts/ags is just a joke? no 10% promise, my god, i just a blind investor.

Online Pheonike

Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 05:21:41 PM »
If a new DACs chooses to honor PTS/AGS then 10% to each is right. If they choose to honor BTS (the new DAC) then 20% of BTS is amount. Choosing BTS gives you full support of community. It must be noted that (AGS/PTS) and BTS communities are no longer the same people(there is a large overlap) so honoring (PTS/AGS) does not automatically include support BTS aka BM.

Offline sudo

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2014, 02:56:43 AM »
PTS at least 10% of DACs shares
then AGS at least 10%  not harm  PTS's 10%

now  new BTS rob the 20% shares of AGS&PTS

Offline sudo

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Re: Explanation for PTS/AGS Holders goes here!
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2014, 03:03:40 AM »
https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/BitShares/blob/master/LICENSE.md
after i post  it
someone  delete the "BitShares" item on github

 

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