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Offline wasthatawolf

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BitUSD across DACs
« on: October 22, 2014, 06:44:35 PM »

I was listening to the Bitcoins and Gravy interview with the guys from Peertracks and they mentioned that BitUSD will be utilized as the main form of payment on Peertracks.  I want to make sure I understand this correctly...

  • BitUSD exists on the BitsharesX block chain collateralized by BTSX.
  • BitUSD exists on the Peertracks block chain collateralized by NOTES?

If the above is accurate, can BitUSD move between the BTSX and the NOTES chains?

Offline biophil

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 06:46:24 PM »
I was listening to the Bitcoins and Gravy interview with the guys from Peertracks and they mentioned that BitUSD will be utilized as the main form of payment on Peertracks.  I want to make sure I understand this correctly...

  • BitUSD exists on the BitsharesX block chain collateralized by BTSX.
  • BitUSD exists on the Peertracks block chain collateralized by NOTES?

If the above is accurate, can BitUSD move between the BTSX and the NOTES chains?

That's the idea, but keep in mind that this is all subject to change. They just merged several other DACs to fix this particular issue, so don't be surprised if we see a BTS/MUSIC merger down the road at some point.

Online Pheonike

Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 06:50:36 PM »
Not at the moment. Since they are in the middle of their pre-sale it doesn't make sense for them to make any decisions now. Ultimately it would make sense to bring bitshares music into bts that way they can completely focus on making the PeerTracks front end site the best it can be.

Offline wasthatawolf

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 06:55:05 PM »
I was listening to the Bitcoins and Gravy interview with the guys from Peertracks and they mentioned that BitUSD will be utilized as the main form of payment on Peertracks.  I want to make sure I understand this correctly...

  • BitUSD exists on the BitsharesX block chain collateralized by BTSX.
  • BitUSD exists on the Peertracks block chain collateralized by NOTES?

If the above is accurate, can BitUSD move between the BTSX and the NOTES chains?

That's the idea, but keep in mind that this is all subject to change. They just merged several other DACs to fix this particular issue, so don't be surprised if we see a BTS/MUSIC merger down the road at some point.

I haven't been on the forum for a few weeks and I'm just now reading about this merger.  Can you give me the TL;DR?  Is everything going to be running off of one block chain?

Offline matt608

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 06:58:12 PM »
As far as I know peertracks is remaining independent so the bitUSD will be different bitUSD than BTS bitUSD, but they will be exchangeable via atomic cross chain trading.  It's possible BTS will buy out peertracks eventually and end up on the same chain with the same bitUSD, but for now they are independent.

So yes your two bullet points are correct.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 06:59:53 PM by matt608 »

Offline donkeypong

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 07:32:22 PM »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9874

Pretty sure devs are working on it. I can't find the post where BM said this, but I seem to recall that he did. Link above to another discussion.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:35:41 PM by donkeypong »

Offline Stan

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 07:47:28 PM »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9874

Pretty sure devs are working on it. I can't find the post where BM said this, but I seem to recall that he did. Link above to another discussion.

Eventually we will develop better and better ways to "wire" bitAssets from one DAC or SuperDAC Business District (Mall) to another.  But it will probably always be most efficient to do "high frequency trading" within a DAC or Business District.

So we start by engineering the first SuperDAC Business District - BitShares. 

As the industry grows, we'll worry about, um, SWIFT-ish interconnections.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline wasthatawolf

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 08:41:43 PM »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9874

Pretty sure devs are working on it. I can't find the post where BM said this, but I seem to recall that he did. Link above to another discussion.

Eventually we will develop better and better ways to "wire" bitAssets from one DAC or SuperDAC Business District (Mall) to another.  But it will probably always be most efficient to do "high frequency trading" within a DAC or Business District.

So we start by engineering the first SuperDAC Business District - BitShares. 

As the industry grows, we'll worry about, um, SWIFT-ish interconnections.

I'm a little surprised that a protocol for atomic cross chain transfer of BitUSD isn't a higher priority. 

If all BitUSD isn't created equal, how do you expect to sell the idea of BitUSD to the general public?  Especially since Peertracks will exist as a separate entity even if the proposed merger goes through.

Offline teenagecheese

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 08:56:58 PM »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9874

Pretty sure devs are working on it. I can't find the post where BM said this, but I seem to recall that he did. Link above to another discussion.

Eventually we will develop better and better ways to "wire" bitAssets from one DAC or SuperDAC Business District (Mall) to another.  But it will probably always be most efficient to do "high frequency trading" within a DAC or Business District.

So we start by engineering the first SuperDAC Business District - BitShares. 

As the industry grows, we'll worry about, um, SWIFT-ish interconnections.

I'm a little surprised that a protocol for atomic cross chain transfer of BitUSD isn't a higher priority. 

If all BitUSD isn't created equal, how do you expect to sell the idea of BitUSD to the general public?  Especially since Peertracks will exist as a separate entity even if the proposed merger goes through.

These are really good points. I am also very concerned about the BitUSD coordinating among various daqs; it needs to be seamless, but also I think DACs shouldn't have to be the the BTS blockchain to achieve this. I don't know if that's technically possible, but it is an important feature to allow growth of the ecosystem.

Also, is peertracks really going to have to have their own BitUSD exchange and trading system to achieve market peg just like Bitshares X? Maybe I'm wrong about that? If I'm not that is a ridiculous and inefficient way of doing things. A music company should not have to also worry about stabilizing their currency which they use to sell their product.

I would really appreciate some clarification on this from anyone who has a good understanding because it seems to be an obviously bad choice from my current understanding.

Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 09:06:18 PM »
I recently wrote an ELI5 post about how cross chain trading would work (already implemented on the blockchain)
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10132.msg132196#msg132196

However, BM .. as usual ... has some way bigger plans already :)
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Offline matt608

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 09:07:11 PM »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9874

Pretty sure devs are working on it. I can't find the post where BM said this, but I seem to recall that he did. Link above to another discussion.

Eventually we will develop better and better ways to "wire" bitAssets from one DAC or SuperDAC Business District (Mall) to another.  But it will probably always be most efficient to do "high frequency trading" within a DAC or Business District.

So we start by engineering the first SuperDAC Business District - BitShares. 

As the industry grows, we'll worry about, um, SWIFT-ish interconnections.

I'm a little surprised that a protocol for atomic cross chain transfer of BitUSD isn't a higher priority. 

If all BitUSD isn't created equal, how do you expect to sell the idea of BitUSD to the general public?  Especially since Peertracks will exist as a separate entity even if the proposed merger goes through.

These are really good points. I am also very concerned about the BitUSD coordinating among various daqs; it needs to be seamless, but also I think DACs shouldn't have to be the the BTS blockchain to achieve this. I don't know if that's technically possible, but it is an important feature to allow growth of the ecosystem.

Also, is peertracks really going to have to have their own BitUSD exchange and trading system to achieve market peg just like Bitshares X? Maybe I'm wrong about that? If I'm not that is a ridiculous and inefficient way of doing things. A music company should not have to also worry about stabilizing their currency which they use to sell their product.

I would really appreciate some clarification on this from anyone who has a good understanding because it seems to be an obviously bad choice from my current understanding.

One of the big reasons for of the merger was to keep bitUSD together, to prevent vote-bitUSD from competing with btsx-bitUSD, so that is a big improvement imo.

I agree it's weird for Peertracks to have its own bitUSD on top of its own shares and artist coins.  I haven't invested in it for that reason even though I came up with the idea of artist coins myself about a year ago (along with tons of other people) and really like that concept.  If BTS wanted to buy out peertracks I wouldn't object.

Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 09:08:40 PM »
Also, is peertracks really going to have to have their own BitUSD exchange and trading system to achieve market peg just like Bitshares X? Maybe I'm wrong about that? If I'm not that is a ridiculous and inefficient way of doing things. A music company should not have to also worry about stabilizing their currency which they use to sell their product.
There is no other way to value 'NOTES' against USD .. on the exchange directly .. if you thing about it ..

What you will see is basically TWO exchanges .. that both trade the same altcoin bitasset ...
they may differ in volume ..
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Offline wasthatawolf

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 09:11:05 PM »
Also, is peertracks really going to have to have their own BitUSD exchange and trading system to achieve market peg just like Bitshares X? Maybe I'm wrong about that? If I'm not that is a ridiculous and inefficient way of doing things. A music company should not have to also worry about stabilizing their currency which they use to sell their product.
There is no other way to value 'NOTES' against USD .. on the exchange directly .. if you thing about it ..

What you will see is basically TWO exchanges .. that both trade the same altcoin bitasset ...
they may differ in volume ..

Without cross chain trading, the bitassets are not the same.  They only share the same peg.

Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 09:16:39 PM »
Without cross chain trading, the bitassets are not the same.  They only share the same peg.
We had plenty of discussions like these ... the only difference IMHO .. is liquidity and thus spread .. ... and maybe yield ..
besides that .. 1bitUSD = 1USD .. no matter the collateral
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Offline oco101

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Re: BitUSD across DACs
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 09:23:15 PM »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9874

Pretty sure devs are working on it. I can't find the post where BM said this, but I seem to recall that he did. Link above to another discussion.

Eventually we will develop better and better ways to "wire" bitAssets from one DAC or SuperDAC Business District (Mall) to another.  But it will probably always be most efficient to do "high frequency trading" within a DAC or Business District.

So we start by engineering the first SuperDAC Business District - BitShares. 

As the industry grows, we'll worry about, um, SWIFT-ish interconnections.

I'm a little surprised that a protocol for atomic cross chain transfer of BitUSD isn't a higher priority. 

If all BitUSD isn't created equal, how do you expect to sell the idea of BitUSD to the general public?  Especially since Peertracks will exist as a separate entity even if the proposed merger goes through.

These are really good points. I am also very concerned about the BitUSD coordinating among various daqs; it needs to be seamless, but also I think DACs shouldn't have to be the the BTS blockchain to achieve this. I don't know if that's technically possible, but it is an important feature to allow growth of the ecosystem.

Also, is peertracks really going to have to have their own BitUSD exchange and trading system to achieve market peg just like Bitshares X? Maybe I'm wrong about that? If I'm not that is a ridiculous and inefficient way of doing things. A music company should not have to also worry about stabilizing their currency which they use to sell their product.

I would really appreciate some clarification on this from anyone who has a good understanding because it seems to be an obviously bad choice from my current understanding.

One of the big reasons for of the merger was to keep bitUSD together, to prevent vote-bitUSD from competing with btsx-bitUSD, so that is a big improvement imo.

I agree it's weird for Peertracks to have its own bitUSD on top of its own shares and artist coins.  I haven't invested in it for that reason even though I came up with the idea of artist coins myself about a year ago (along with tons of other people) and really like that concept.  If BTS wanted to buy out peertracks I wouldn't object.

The think is the SuperDAC only solves the problem temporarily. Sooner or later we will face this problem again. We can't  buy all the altDAC out there. Unless some Bytemaster magic happens you'll have different bitUSD anyway. But this is not important what is important it is network effect that super DAC will get . This is what this merger is all about one team, push it to the sky and once you reach escape velocity it does not matter the altDAC. Music could very well coexist with Bitshare. In fact I don't believe the theory that Vote will have been competed with BithshareX for bitUSD either, two completely different business model . But for sure it will have taken dev  resources away witch is far more dangerous at the moment.

 

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