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Offline betax

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An attempt to restart the original discussion / comments about the Future (not current sharedrop)

I would like to retry start a discussion on the future, the way I see the share drop (not merger) is that we are just creating a bigger DAC, with possibilities of of creating your own Dapps (application in SuperDAC) but continuing having the possibility of Third Party DACs using the bitshares toolkit which should continue to comply with the Social Contract.

DApps and toolkit
 Bytemaster has mentioned that in the future we will be having an scripting language like Ethereum, it will be great to start thinking / documenting how to create new DApps and how a third party can benefit from the creation of DApps.

Making the SuperDAC a decentralised application environment or OS. We could start discussion more detailed areas like UX (User Experience) for example one main OS like core applications with multiple applications, light wallets, light applications? etc.

Third party DACs
There is also the possibility of creating your own Third Party DAC, the only thing that has changed is that BitsharesX - DNS + VOTE and Play will be under the same umbrella (and of course much more in the future). These will have to comply with the Social Contract as before or a new one.

Social Contract
As noted before the Social Contract should be preserved for third party DACs, but here it could be extended to at least BTS (10%), PTS (10%), AGS (10%). Hopefully this way new and old investors will be rewarded in a multiple DAC scenario and the required compliance of Third Party DACs as the toolkit will significantly more advanced with the combined features.

It will be great that we keep the comments answering the bold headers above, this way we will to avoid silly debates on unrelated subjects, also avoid usage random pictures or metaphors so all international parties understand the thoughts. I hope this way we can all contribute to shape / understand the direction :) Also I hope that Bytemaster is allowed to comment before the PR lockout.
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Offline xeroc

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DApps and toolkit
Bytemaster has mentioned that in the future we will be having an scripting
language like Ethereum, it will be great to start thinking / documenting how
to create new DApps and how a third party can benefit from the creation of
DApps.

Making the SuperDAC a decentralised application environment or OS. We could
start discussion more detailed areas like UX (User Experience) for example one
main OS like core applications with multiple applications, light wallets, light
applications? etc.
At this point WE can learn alot from the Ethereum guys:
http://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/1402/how-to-get-started-your-first-dapp-under-one-hour
https://github.com/jorisbontje/cll-sim
http://k1n0k0.github.io/ethereum-simulator/

We might need more information about the BTS scripting language to get started!

Third party DACs
There is also the possibility of creating your own Third Party DAC, the only
thing that has changed is that BitsharesX - DNS + VOTE and Play will be under
the same umbrella (and of course much more in the future). These will have to
comply with the Social Contract as before or a new one.
PLAY will NOT be part of BTS!!

I'd wait for the upcoming document I3 is preparing to justify their decisions.
Disclaimer: I do not feel betrayed.

Social Contract
As noted before the Social Contract should be preserved for third party DACs,
but here it could be extended to at least BTS (10%), PTS (10%), AGS (10%).
Hopefully this way new and old investors will be rewarded in a multiple DAC
scenario and the required compliance of Third Party DACs as the toolkit will
significantly more advanced with the combined features.

It will be great that we keep the comments answering the bold headers above,
this way we will to avoid silly debates on unrelated subjects, also avoid
usage random pictures or metaphors so all international parties understand
the thoughts. I hope this way we can all contribute to shape / understand
the direction :) Also I hope that Bytemaster is allowed to comment before
the PR lockout.
The social CONSENSUS(!) should not be altered .. and 3rd part developers can
still snapshot on AGS and PTS to honor it! I see no issue with this.
However, in what form AGS/PTS will be continues is up for debate. AGS cannot be
changed but maybe "merged". The consensus about PTS seems to be that POW sucks
(agreed) and that it should either be traded as PTS2 on BTS(X) or have it's own
DPOS chain. Alternatively, plenty discussion exist about whether to combine AGS
and PTS (in what ratio ever) into a GENESIS asset (or maybe chain) to make AGS
liquid again. However, making AGS liquid will never be performed by I3 due to
legal issues around "securities"! So that has to be a community effort.


just my 2 BTS(X)
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Offline betax

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Thanks Xeroc for all info and corrections. I am all for PTS / AGS be an asset and traded in BTS. It will benefit both BTS (as trading platform) and easier to maintain. (First ME).

Interesting that PLAY is not going to be part of the SuperDAC as it could benefit of the "scripting" engine to release new / different games. I read somewhere (Chinese thread) that Play is not going to be used for gambling anymore but I another DAC could do the Diamond Casino.
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Offline James212

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An attempt to restart the original discussion / comments about the Future (not current sharedrop)


I would like to retry start a discussion on the future, the way I see the share drop (not merger) is that we are just creating a bigger DAC, with possibilities of of creating your own Dapps (application in SuperDAC) but continuing having the possibility of Third Party DACs using the bitshares toolkit which should continue to comply with the Social Contract.

DApps and toolkit
 Bytemaster has mentioned that in the future we will be having an scripting language like Ethereum, it will be great to start thinking / documenting how to create new DApps and how a third party can benefit from the creation of DApps.

Making the SuperDAC a decentralised application environment or OS. We could start discussion more detailed areas like UX (User Experience) for example one main OS like core applications with multiple applications, light wallets, light applications? etc.

Quote
Third party DACs
There is also the possibility of creating your own Third Party DAC, the only thing that has changed is that BitsharesX - DNS + VOTE and Play will be under the same umbrella (and of course much more in the future). These will have to comply with the Social Contract as before or a new one.

Play will not be part of BTS but will be a third party DAC.  It should not carry "Bitshares" designator in it's name, but should be allowed the  tag line "powered by Bitshares".  For the purposes of clarity of our organizations image, only DACs issued by BTS should be named with "Bitshares...xxxx"

Quote
Social Contract
As noted before the Social Contract should be preserved for third party DACs, but here it could be extended to at least BTS (10%), PTS (10%), AGS (10%). Hopefully this way new and old investors will be rewarded in a multiple DAC scenario and the required compliance of Third Party DACs as the toolkit will significantly more advanced with the combined features.

One of the main goals of these restructuring is to simplify our company image/message.  The elimination of PTS and AGS is a big part of this objective.  PTS/AGS should be retired or spun-off.  If spun off, there should be no assoication with "Bitshares" after the restricting is complete.  Bitshares' commitments to AGS/PTS has been fulfilled with the 7% (really 10%) allocation in the new BTS DAC.

Disclosure: I currently hold significant interests in PTS. 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 12:44:48 PM by James212 »
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Offline amencon

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One of the main goals of these restructuring is to simplify our company image/message.  The elimination of PTS and AGS is a big part of this objective.  PTS/AGS should be retired or spun-off.  If spun off, there should be no assoication with "Bitshares" after the restricting is complete.  Bitshares' commitments to AGS/PTS has been fulfilled with the 7% (really 10%) allocation in the new BTS DAC.

Disclosure: I currently hold significant interests in PTS.
Even as someone who liked the old paradigm, we are essentially starting over with a new plan.  If a big driver in that decision was to simplify then I think that should be pursued fully rather than some hybrid system that will leave nobody satisfied.

I agree that Bitshares should reference a single DAC and should be dropped from future DACs developed.

Offline luckybit

DApps and toolkit
Bytemaster has mentioned that in the future we will be having an scripting
language like Ethereum, it will be great to start thinking / documenting how
to create new DApps and how a third party can benefit from the creation of
DApps.

Making the SuperDAC a decentralised application environment or OS. We could
start discussion more detailed areas like UX (User Experience) for example one
main OS like core applications with multiple applications, light wallets, light
applications? etc.
At this point WE can learn alot from the Ethereum guys:
http://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/1402/how-to-get-started-your-first-dapp-under-one-hour
https://github.com/jorisbontje/cll-sim
http://k1n0k0.github.io/ethereum-simulator/

We might need more information about the BTS scripting language to get started!

Third party DACs
There is also the possibility of creating your own Third Party DAC, the only
thing that has changed is that BitsharesX - DNS + VOTE and Play will be under
the same umbrella (and of course much more in the future). These will have to
comply with the Social Contract as before or a new one.
PLAY will NOT be part of BTS!!

I'd wait for the upcoming document I3 is preparing to justify their decisions.
Disclaimer: I do not feel betrayed.

Social Contract
As noted before the Social Contract should be preserved for third party DACs,
but here it could be extended to at least BTS (10%), PTS (10%), AGS (10%).
Hopefully this way new and old investors will be rewarded in a multiple DAC
scenario and the required compliance of Third Party DACs as the toolkit will
significantly more advanced with the combined features.

It will be great that we keep the comments answering the bold headers above,
this way we will to avoid silly debates on unrelated subjects, also avoid
usage random pictures or metaphors so all international parties understand
the thoughts. I hope this way we can all contribute to shape / understand
the direction :) Also I hope that Bytemaster is allowed to comment before
the PR lockout.
The social CONSENSUS(!) should not be altered .. and 3rd part developers can
still snapshot on AGS and PTS to honor it! I see no issue with this.
However, in what form AGS/PTS will be continues is up for debate. AGS cannot be
changed but maybe "merged". The consensus about PTS seems to be that POW sucks
(agreed) and that it should either be traded as PTS2 on BTS(X) or have it's own
DPOS chain. Alternatively, plenty discussion exist about whether to combine AGS
and PTS (in what ratio ever) into a GENESIS asset (or maybe chain) to make AGS
liquid again. However, making AGS liquid will never be performed by I3 due to
legal issues around "securities"! So that has to be a community effort.


just my 2 BTS(X)

1) Ethereum is limited in functionality and the coding environment is so difficult that I couldn't even set it up right before it was obsoleted by updates.

I think Bytemaster should do everything possible not to duplicate the confusion and overly complicated setup process. It should be so easy that we can write scripts directly into Bitshares client. The IDE should be built right into the client so that people don't have to go through some complicated setup process.

2) If Invictus has legal issues around securities then we can replace AGS with something like Patronage Points which aren't securities and which would have no legal issues. AGS only has potential legal issues because it was launched during a time when no one was clear on what the rules are and we still aren't clear.

This calls for thinking outside the box and you don't have to wait for Bytemaster and team. You can solve the problem yourself and honor AGS with whatever solution you came up with. The way I could think of was Patronage Points and a Bitshares Cooperative but there are going to be other ideas. Eventually someone is going to come up with something which is better than AGS/PTS with no legal risks.
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Offline Stan

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DApps and toolkit
Bytemaster has mentioned that in the future we will be having an scripting
language like Ethereum, it will be great to start thinking / documenting how
to create new DApps and how a third party can benefit from the creation of
DApps.

Making the SuperDAC a decentralised application environment or OS. We could
start discussion more detailed areas like UX (User Experience) for example one
main OS like core applications with multiple applications, light wallets, light
applications? etc.
At this point WE can learn alot from the Ethereum guys:
http://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/1402/how-to-get-started-your-first-dapp-under-one-hour
https://github.com/jorisbontje/cll-sim
http://k1n0k0.github.io/ethereum-simulator/

We might need more information about the BTS scripting language to get started!

Third party DACs
There is also the possibility of creating your own Third Party DAC, the only
thing that has changed is that BitsharesX - DNS + VOTE and Play will be under
the same umbrella (and of course much more in the future). These will have to
comply with the Social Contract as before or a new one.
PLAY will NOT be part of BTS!!

I'd wait for the upcoming document I3 is preparing to justify their decisions.
Disclaimer: I do not feel betrayed.

Social Contract
As noted before the Social Contract should be preserved for third party DACs,
but here it could be extended to at least BTS (10%), PTS (10%), AGS (10%).
Hopefully this way new and old investors will be rewarded in a multiple DAC
scenario and the required compliance of Third Party DACs as the toolkit will
significantly more advanced with the combined features.

It will be great that we keep the comments answering the bold headers above,
this way we will to avoid silly debates on unrelated subjects, also avoid
usage random pictures or metaphors so all international parties understand
the thoughts. I hope this way we can all contribute to shape / understand
the direction :) Also I hope that Bytemaster is allowed to comment before
the PR lockout.
The social CONSENSUS(!) should not be altered .. and 3rd part developers can
still snapshot on AGS and PTS to honor it! I see no issue with this.
However, in what form AGS/PTS will be continues is up for debate. AGS cannot be
changed but maybe "merged". The consensus about PTS seems to be that POW sucks
(agreed) and that it should either be traded as PTS2 on BTS(X) or have it's own
DPOS chain. Alternatively, plenty discussion exist about whether to combine AGS
and PTS (in what ratio ever) into a GENESIS asset (or maybe chain) to make AGS
liquid again. However, making AGS liquid will never be performed by I3 due to
legal issues around "securities"! So that has to be a community effort.


just my 2 BTS(X)

1) Ethereum is limited in functionality and the coding environment is so difficult that I couldn't even set it up right before it was obsoleted by updates.

I think Bytemaster should do everything possible not to duplicate the confusion and overly complicated setup process. It should be so easy that we can write scripts directly into Bitshares client. The IDE should be built right into the client so that people don't have to go through some complicated setup process.

2) If Invictus has legal issues around securities then we can replace AGS with something like Patronage Points which aren't securities and which would have no legal issues. AGS only has potential legal issues because it was launched during a time when no one was clear on what the rules are and we still aren't clear.

This calls for thinking outside the box and you don't have to wait for Bytemaster and team. You can solve the problem yourself and honor AGS with whatever solution you came up with. The way I could think of was Patronage Points and a Bitshares Cooperative but there are going to be other ideas. Eventually someone is going to come up with something which is better than AGS/PTS with no legal risks.

AGS is simply a public ledger of people who donated to develop the industry.
It is permanently in the history books where anyone can consult that ledger.
Cast in concrete as the BitShares Book of Heroes, so to speak.
Messing with it would be like editing Shakespear's
A Midsummer Night's Dream.
It just isn't done.
:)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

 

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