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Offline stuartcharles

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Seems to me that the biggest weakness of DPOS is voter turnout. Im sure we will get a little more with the current proposal and again some more with a bug free and trusted client but with all the strength of DPOS it would be nice to put a nail in this one weakness and get some really high turnout.

I notice people are really engaged in the forum and the poles seem to greatly reflect opinion. Hence my question. I can see lots of merits for putting this forum on the client. I haven't loaded the client for weeks yet i log onto the forum two or three times a day. I'm sure i am not the only one. So, we would get increased traffic and targeted traffic to the client. Traffic that would read the forum vote on poles (which could be incorporated into delegate voting to increase participation). Also If we the community were loading up the client as often at they log on to the forum then they would be more likely to engage in the features, thus creating more transaction fees.

The only downside i see is that it would be a barrier to entry for newbies, however, this too could be turned to a positive.  We keep an online forum to attract newbies but, firstly they wont see the kind of potentially panicking discussions we have from time to time  :). Also they will be incentivised to download the client and use it regularly if the want to engage further.
 

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 04:39:40 PM »
A ForumDac would be amazing, and I'm sure it would increase voter turnout. We would simply have a web interface that plugs into the blockchain for public viewing / search engine indexing, and a link that says "Download the client to participate in the discussion!".

There would need to be a strong push to migrate over.

There is so much that is needed to be done as we pioneer this industry... exciting and daunting simultaneously.
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Offline luckybit

Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2014, 04:49:40 PM »
Seems to me that the biggest weakness of DPOS is voter turnout. Im sure we will get a little more with the current proposal and again some more with a bug free and trusted client but with all the strength of DPOS it would be nice to put a nail in this one weakness and get some really high turnout.

I notice people are really engaged in the forum and the poles seem to greatly reflect opinion. Hence my question. I can see lots of merits for putting this forum on the client. I haven't loaded the client for weeks yet i log onto the forum two or three times a day. I'm sure i am not the only one. So, we would get increased traffic and targeted traffic to the client. Traffic that would read the forum vote on poles (which could be incorporated into delegate voting to increase participation). Also If we the community were loading up the client as often at they log on to the forum then they would be more likely to engage in the features, thus creating more transaction fees.

The only downside i see is that it would be a barrier to entry for newbies, however, this too could be turned to a positive.  We keep an online forum to attract newbies but, firstly they wont see the kind of potentially panicking discussions we have from time to time  :). Also they will be incentivised to download the client and use it regularly if the want to engage further.
 

A forum doesn't belong on the blockchain. You could put it on a decentralized storage DAC like Storj or SAFE Network.
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Offline Thom

Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 04:59:21 PM »
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 05:37:49 PM »
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.

Forums really don't have that much data.  You could also compress to a high degree with known dictionaries if you wanted to be super dev.  You don't need any pictures stored on blockchain.

Other bright technical people are of the mind that we need some complicated storage system first, which means it would be likely well over a year before this would be coded.

If you are going to maintain superDAC then you can just as well have multiple chains by anything I can reason.  One DAC, multiple blockchains.  Some optional etc with slower blocktimes and lower fees.  Reimagine everything, right ?  At least then you can always split them back into their own DACs.
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Offline Method-X

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 05:48:21 PM »
I think decentralization should be an absolute last resort. It puts up a massive barrier to entry for most average users. For a forum, it makes more sense to decentralize the point of entry: bitsharestalk.org -> bitsharestalk.p2p. If the server is attacked, you simply point bitsharestalk.p2p at another server. You could also view the Bitshares Exchange app as a point of entry; all you need to do is add a "discussion" tab and have it aggregate this forum. Keep it simple.

Offline luckybit

Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2014, 06:35:50 PM »
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.

I proposed that idea months back. I think that is something they might have planned in the new interface.
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Offline luckybit

Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2014, 06:39:28 PM »
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.

Forums really don't have that much data.  You could also compress to a high degree with known dictionaries if you wanted to be super dev.  You don't need any pictures stored on blockchain.

Other bright technical people are of the mind that we need some complicated storage system first, which means it would be likely well over a year before this would be coded.

If you are going to maintain superDAC then you can just as well have multiple chains by anything I can reason.  One DAC, multiple blockchains.  Some optional etc with slower blocktimes and lower fees.  Reimagine everything, right ?  At least then you can always split them back into their own DACs.

We aren't a year away. We are months away. I would say sometime this winter you could do it and likely by Jan.

Storj is already in progress. There are altcoins which are all working on components of it. It really depends on how much priority developers give it.

But I think if you're going to build a foundation it's better to do it right the first time than to have to keep tearing it down and rebuilding.

I think decentralization should be an absolute last resort. It puts up a massive barrier to entry for most average users. For a forum, it makes more sense to decentralize the point of entry: bitsharestalk.org -> bitsharestalk.p2p. If the server is attacked, you simply point bitsharestalk.p2p at another server. You could also view the Bitshares Exchange app as a point of entry; all you need to do is add a "discussion" tab and have it aggregate this forum. Keep it simple.

Decentralization would make it DDOS resistant so it definitely ought not be a last resort from a security point of view. The user doesn't have to even know it's decentralized.

While not every aspect has to be decentralized the ownership of the forum itself is better off decentralized. This way we could share in the revenue if the forum ever generates any and pass it off as dividends.

Multi-media such as embedded podcasts and video could be something we'd want. So having decentralized file storage is definitely a positive.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2014, 06:56:04 PM »
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.

Forums really don't have that much data.  You could also compress to a high degree with known dictionaries if you wanted to be super dev.  You don't need any pictures stored on blockchain.

Other bright technical people are of the mind that we need some complicated storage system first, which means it would be likely well over a year before this would be coded.

If you are going to maintain superDAC then you can just as well have multiple chains by anything I can reason.  One DAC, multiple blockchains.  Some optional etc with slower blocktimes and lower fees.  Reimagine everything, right ?  At least then you can always split them back into their own DACs.
You're right and you never take any consideration to the actual work involved.  You just type up idea after idea after idea... 

We aren't a year away. We are months away. I would say sometime this winter you could do it and likely by Jan.

Storj is already in progress. There are altcoins which are all working on components of it. It really depends on how much priority developers give it.


What do you mean "in progress" ?  I hope all those products that are storage products are "in progress".

What altcoins are doing what ?

Yes, it depends on how much time developers give it and I'm talking about reality and not unrealistically.

How would the superDAC even pay for that storage ?  Cross-chain trading from 2 different families of coins ?
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Offline Thom

Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2014, 07:04:19 PM »
The forum itself doesn't belong on the blockchain, but the intriguing idea is the bundling of the BitShares client with access to this forum.

If our public keys were tied to our forum ID and access to the forum was only through the BTS client, the benefits described by the OP could be realized.

I proposed that idea months back. I think that is something they might have planned in the new interface.

I think it's a great idea, and it wouldn't take that much effort to accomplish. I also think MeTHoDx's idea of using a p2p address is excellent, which shows that BTS uses it's own inventions internally.

Even if all we did was remove this forum's DNS domain name and made it only accessible through the BTS client (thru a p2p registration) it would funnel more interest in the client, if nothing more than by the "hidden/special" but yet public access that would provide. People are curious and intrigued by mysteries.

Of course once p2p became popular and plugins / add ons or other tools are available to access p2p internet sites from their web browser the curtain would be drawn back so access would no longer be hidden. The use of BTS public keys as forum ID tokens could be done at any time.

If this idea were implemented the bitsharestalk.org URL could be redirected to a simple landing page that describes the BitShares ecosystem (including how to access the p2p forum) but "for more info" links to several other forums like Beyond Bitcoin and others.
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Offline bitmeat

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2014, 11:19:46 PM »
GEMS once it's out would be useful...

http://getgems.org/

Offline starspirit

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2014, 12:31:25 AM »
Maybe consider how a transaction fee system for forum posts could be utilised to improve the quality of the discussion? e.g.:
- a flat cost per length of post, covering system cost, but also encouraging stakeholders to make pertinent points where they feel this genuinely adds value to discussion
- an ability to like posts, and absorb some transaction cost from the poster, encouraging lower cost for more helpful posts

Offline stuartcharles

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2014, 07:01:41 AM »
Maybe consider how a transaction fee system for forum posts could be utilised to improve the quality of the discussion? e.g.:
- a flat cost per length of post, covering system cost, but also encouraging stakeholders to make pertinent points where they feel this genuinely adds value to discussion
- an ability to like posts, and absorb some transaction cost from the poster, encouraging lower cost for more helpful posts
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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2014, 12:42:28 PM »
Maybe consider how a transaction fee system for forum posts could be utilised to improve the quality of the discussion? e.g.:
- a flat cost per length of post, covering system cost, but also encouraging stakeholders to make pertinent points where they feel this genuinely adds value to discussion
- an ability to like posts, and absorb some transaction cost from the poster, encouraging lower cost for more helpful posts
Some days ago I proposed in a hangout to have something like Stackexchange were people find answers to questions and the most helpful answer gets a "helpful answer" flag .. plus you can up and downvote individual alternative answers and and give credits to the people answering ..
you might either distribute "income" daily, weekly, monthley .. whatsoever .. and "pay"/"gift" those willing to help within that period accordingly ..
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Offline gamey

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Re: Could we put this forum on the blockchain, it might get people voting?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2014, 02:27:19 PM »
Maybe consider how a transaction fee system for forum posts could be utilised to improve the quality of the discussion? e.g.:
- a flat cost per length of post, covering system cost, but also encouraging stakeholders to make pertinent points where they feel this genuinely adds value to discussion
- an ability to like posts, and absorb some transaction cost from the poster, encouraging lower cost for more helpful posts
Some days ago I proposed in a hangout to have something like Stackexchange were people find answers to questions and the most helpful answer gets a "helpful answer" flag .. plus you can up and downvote individual alternative answers and and give credits to the people answering ..
you might either distribute "income" daily, weekly, monthley .. whatsoever .. and "pay"/"gift" those willing to help within that period accordingly ..

I thought about this a bit more.  I like it for paying people giving support answers.  I think paying for forum posts won't necessarily be good.  It will lower the amount of posts but it will also get some of the better posts as not everyone is willing to pay to post.  (without going into specific amounts/threshholds)
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