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Offline stuartcharles

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new blockchain "DevShares"
« on: October 27, 2014, 03:12:40 PM »

This is a quote from BM's press release draft.

"A new blockchain "DevShares" will be used for testing the upgrade of BTS and future hard forks as well as experimental features and economic experiments.   This blockchain will be a 40/40/20 snapshot AGS/PTS/X taken on November 5th.    DevShares will not be considered a "safe store of value" but non-the-less will have value for those wishing to test their smart contracts or BTS integration on a low-value chain.   Details on DevShares will be provided over the coming month."

I am trying to decide on the relative value of this chain, and could do with some clarification.
Will it will include all fully developed and tested features of the BTS blockchain? If it does then while it wont be a safe store of value when using your DVS (devshares?) on works in progress it will be safe on tested features like bitusd?

Would there be anything in place to stop it competing with BTS other than increased risk?

If you are going to let it have real world monetary value then you must be saying it will be around permanently as the DVS wont get value if they are going to expire. Is my assumption correct?

If the above is correct then once BTS is fully developed (i know some new things will always be added but 95% developed) Then we will have two chains with no reason for them to have different value.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 09:41:07 AM by cass »

Offline davidpbrown

Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 03:25:10 PM »
Reminds me of devcoin DVC. You could have a tonne of those and lose them without noticing.
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Offline matt608

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 03:36:00 PM »
Yeah I was wondering about this.  It's going to be worth any BTS holders to own a small 'sample' of devshares just to be in the know about what's in the pipeline.  There does appear to be a risk of it generating a conflict of interest having just consolidated I3 to work on 1 chain.  What happens if speculators start buying devshares resulting in it being well funded enough to compete?  Should there be some built in hyperinflation to prevent this?

Offline Rune

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 03:41:07 PM »
BTS will have all the valuable trust structures. DVS will almost only be valuable to developers and researchers.

Offline biophil

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 03:56:42 PM »
Yeah I was wondering about this.  It's going to be worth any BTS holders to own a small 'sample' of devshares just to be in the know about what's in the pipeline.  There does appear to be a risk of it generating a conflict of interest having just consolidated I3 to work on 1 chain.  What happens if speculators start buying devshares resulting in it being well funded enough to compete?  Should there be some built in hyperinflation to prevent this?

drltc's original proposal is here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9959.msg129767#msg129767

Offline stuartcharles

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 04:23:43 PM »
Yeah I was wondering about this.  It's going to be worth any BTS holders to own a small 'sample' of devshares just to be in the know about what's in the pipeline.  There does appear to be a risk of it generating a conflict of interest having just consolidated I3 to work on 1 chain.  What happens if speculators start buying devshares resulting in it being well funded enough to compete?  Should there be some built in hyperinflation to prevent this?

drltc's original proposal is here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9959.msg129767#msg129767

Thanks for the link, I have had a read through but it doesn't answer my questions. Can one of the developers comment? Its quite important because I and others may want to buy more PTS before the 5th November snapshot.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 06:35:02 PM »
I don't think it has investment value if that's what you mean. It's just a test chain.

Offline clayop

Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 06:40:50 PM »
I may be able to distribute DevShares to Korea community members to attract them into Bitshares world   ;)
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Offline sschechter

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 07:10:04 PM »
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy.  It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to.  So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Will deliver internationally.....
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Offline stuartcharles

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 07:18:34 PM »
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy.  It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to.  So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Will deliver internationally.....

Im good for bridges thanks. You haven't addressed any of the questions i ask. BM says DVS's will have monetary value if it has monetary value and the assumptions in my OP are correct then this deserves an answer. BM any chance you could clarify things?

Offline sschechter

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 08:21:51 PM »
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy.  It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to.  So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Will deliver internationally.....

Im good for bridges thanks. You haven't addressed any of the questions i ask. BM says DVS's will have monetary value if it has monetary value and the assumptions in my OP are correct then this deserves an answer. BM any chance you could clarify things?

Apologies for the sarcasm, so let me try again:

* DevShares will not expire
* Nothing is stopping DevShares from competing in a open market
* DevShares need to have a market value, in order to fully test economic functions
* Even when BTS is 95% complete, DevShares will still be used to develop new and experimental blockchain features.  DevShares WILL be used to test features that will never be implemented (or never intended to be implemented on BTS). DevShares will probably be needed to be built from source and I doubt prebuilt binaries will get much attention. The GUI probably won't get much attention either.
* There is nothing stopping anyone from forking DevShares to release a stable version with a pretty GUI, but whats the point?  Show me a list of reasons why you would want to do this, and I'll show you a person who's out to make a quick buck.  Worthwhile features can be implemented into BTS or spun off into a new product after trimming the bloat.
* Nobody, including bytemaster can tell you what DevShares are worth, or what their relative value will be, until they are freely traded on an open market.  All attempts are solely speculation based on opinion.
* Due to all the reasons listed above, my wild ass guess is that the relative value of DevShares = LOW
* If you think this hypothesis is valid: "once BTS is fully developed (i know some new things will always be added but 95% developed) Then we will have two chains with no reason for them to have different value." - then why bother with DevShares? Fork BTSX today and let the market decide if you're correct.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 10:00:14 PM »
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy.  It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to.  So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Will deliver internationally.....

Im good for bridges thanks. You haven't addressed any of the questions i ask. BM says DVS's will have monetary value if it has monetary value and the assumptions in my OP are correct then this deserves an answer. BM any chance you could clarify things?

Apologies for the sarcasm, so let me try again:

* DevShares will not expire
* Nothing is stopping DevShares from competing in a open market
* DevShares need to have a market value, in order to fully test economic functions
* Even when BTS is 95% complete, DevShares will still be used to develop new and experimental blockchain features.  DevShares WILL be used to test features that will never be implemented (or never intended to be implemented on BTS). DevShares will probably be needed to be built from source and I doubt prebuilt binaries will get much attention. The GUI probably won't get much attention either.
* There is nothing stopping anyone from forking DevShares to release a stable version with a pretty GUI, but whats the point?  Show me a list of reasons why you would want to do this, and I'll show you a person who's out to make a quick buck.  Worthwhile features can be implemented into BTS or spun off into a new product after trimming the bloat.
* Nobody, including bytemaster can tell you what DevShares are worth, or what their relative value will be, until they are freely traded on an open market.  All attempts are solely speculation based on opinion.
* Due to all the reasons listed above, my wild ass guess is that the relative value of DevShares = LOW
* If you think this hypothesis is valid: "once BTS is fully developed (i know some new things will always be added but 95% developed) Then we will have two chains with no reason for them to have different value." - then why bother with DevShares? Fork BTSX today and let the market decide if you're correct.

Exactly... the BTS dev team will elect delegates that support rapid hard forks for testing, no merchant or exchange will want to keep up with all of that.   They will have some non-0 value... look at all the alt coins out there.... it may even have some value in the top 20... but it will certainly never compete or it will cease to be a contender.

We will not be advertising it or putting resources into building a network effect for it.    Doesn't mean someone else won't try.
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Offline Riverhead

Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 11:29:44 PM »
Sounds like fun. There was a certain energy to the frequent releases that for some reason I enjoyed. I could see running a few delegates on DevShares. I suspect that chain won't be as important to try to get to 101 individuals.

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Offline pan

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 11:40:12 PM »
Nice

Offline ticklebiscuit

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Re: new blockchain "DevShares"
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 07:27:17 AM »
Devshares will make devs very happy.  That is good for anyone.

 

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