new blockchain "DevShares"

BTSdac · November 06, 2014, 09:51:21 AM

Quote from: bytemaster on October 27, 2014, 10:00:14 PM
Quote from: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Quote from: stuartcharles on October 27, 2014, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 07:10:04 PM
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy. It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to. So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you. Will deliver internationally.....

Im good for bridges thanks. You haven't addressed any of the questions i ask. BM says DVS's will have monetary value if it has monetary value and the assumptions in my OP are correct then this deserves an answer. BM any chance you could clarify things?

Apologies for the sarcasm, so let me try again:

* DevShares will not expire
* Nothing is stopping DevShares from competing in a open market
* DevShares need to have a market value, in order to fully test economic functions
* Even when BTS is 95% complete, DevShares will still be used to develop new and experimental blockchain features. DevShares WILL be used to test features that will never be implemented (or never intended to be implemented on BTS). DevShares will probably be needed to be built from source and I doubt prebuilt binaries will get much attention. The GUI probably won't get much attention either.
* There is nothing stopping anyone from forking DevShares to release a stable version with a pretty GUI, but whats the point? Show me a list of reasons why you would want to do this, and I'll show you a person who's out to make a quick buck. Worthwhile features can be implemented into BTS or spun off into a new product after trimming the bloat.
* Nobody, including bytemaster can tell you what DevShares are worth, or what their relative value will be, until they are freely traded on an open market. All attempts are solely speculation based on opinion.
* Due to all the reasons listed above, my wild ass guess is that the relative value of DevShares = LOW
* If you think this hypothesis is valid: "once BTS is fully developed (i know some new things will always be added but 95% developed) Then we will have two chains with no reason for them to have different value." - then why bother with DevShares? Fork BTSX today and let the market decide if you're correct.

Exactly... the BTS dev team will elect delegates that support rapid hard forks for testing, no merchant or exchange will want to keep up with all of that. They will have some non-0 value... look at all the alt coins out there.... it may even have some value in the top 20... but it will certainly never compete or it will cease to be a contender.

We will not be advertising it or putting resources into building a network effect for it. Doesn't mean someone else won't try.

HI BM
this is a proposal without electing delegates again.
keep the testing and formal clients integrate, when there is a new feather need to been tested , just snapshot from formal chain. fork a new chain from formal chain, each delegate both delegate formal chain and testing chain ,they are parallel and independent, user can select to testing chain to join testing by command line ,not GUI in case cheat to new user. after testing is finished , end testing chain and merge feather to formal chain.

theoretical · October 29, 2014, 10:28:35 PM

I am thinking DevShares will have non-zero value above and beyond your typical altcoin. Because there is non-zero fundamental economic demand for early access to features like atomic cross-chain trading. We haven't yet determined the feature set of DevShares. However, I originally conceived of the DevShares idea as a platform to test some of my ideas for interesting approaches to AXCT.

Please keep in mind however:

Quote from: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Nobody, including bytemaster can tell you what DevShares are worth, or what their relative value will be, until they are freely traded on an open market. All attempts are solely speculation based on opinion.

This post is entirely speculation based on my personal opinion; it is merely an educated guess, which could definitely be wrong.

ticklebiscuit · October 29, 2014, 07:27:17 AM

Devshares will make devs very happy. That is good for anyone.

pan · October 27, 2014, 11:40:12 PM

Nice

Riverhead · October 27, 2014, 11:29:44 PM

Sounds like fun. There was a certain energy to the frequent releases that for some reason I enjoyed. I could see running a few delegates on DevShares. I suspect that chain won't be as important to try to get to 101 individuals.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

bytemaster · October 27, 2014, 10:00:14 PM

Quote from: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Quote from: stuartcharles on October 27, 2014, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 07:10:04 PM
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy. It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to. So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you. Will deliver internationally.....

Im good for bridges thanks. You haven't addressed any of the questions i ask. BM says DVS's will have monetary value if it has monetary value and the assumptions in my OP are correct then this deserves an answer. BM any chance you could clarify things?

Apologies for the sarcasm, so let me try again:

* DevShares will not expire
* Nothing is stopping DevShares from competing in a open market
* DevShares need to have a market value, in order to fully test economic functions
* Even when BTS is 95% complete, DevShares will still be used to develop new and experimental blockchain features. DevShares WILL be used to test features that will never be implemented (or never intended to be implemented on BTS). DevShares will probably be needed to be built from source and I doubt prebuilt binaries will get much attention. The GUI probably won't get much attention either.
* There is nothing stopping anyone from forking DevShares to release a stable version with a pretty GUI, but whats the point? Show me a list of reasons why you would want to do this, and I'll show you a person who's out to make a quick buck. Worthwhile features can be implemented into BTS or spun off into a new product after trimming the bloat.
* Nobody, including bytemaster can tell you what DevShares are worth, or what their relative value will be, until they are freely traded on an open market. All attempts are solely speculation based on opinion.
* Due to all the reasons listed above, my wild ass guess is that the relative value of DevShares = LOW
* If you think this hypothesis is valid: "once BTS is fully developed (i know some new things will always be added but 95% developed) Then we will have two chains with no reason for them to have different value." - then why bother with DevShares? Fork BTSX today and let the market decide if you're correct.

Exactly... the BTS dev team will elect delegates that support rapid hard forks for testing, no merchant or exchange will want to keep up with all of that. They will have some non-0 value... look at all the alt coins out there.... it may even have some value in the top 20... but it will certainly never compete or it will cease to be a contender.

We will not be advertising it or putting resources into building a network effect for it. Doesn't mean someone else won't try.

sschechter · October 27, 2014, 08:21:51 PM

Quote from: stuartcharles on October 27, 2014, 07:18:34 PM
Quote from: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 07:10:04 PM
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy. It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to. So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you. Will deliver internationally.....

Im good for bridges thanks. You haven't addressed any of the questions i ask. BM says DVS's will have monetary value if it has monetary value and the assumptions in my OP are correct then this deserves an answer. BM any chance you could clarify things?

Apologies for the sarcasm, so let me try again:

* DevShares will not expire
* Nothing is stopping DevShares from competing in a open market
* DevShares need to have a market value, in order to fully test economic functions
* Even when BTS is 95% complete, DevShares will still be used to develop new and experimental blockchain features. DevShares WILL be used to test features that will never be implemented (or never intended to be implemented on BTS). DevShares will probably be needed to be built from source and I doubt prebuilt binaries will get much attention. The GUI probably won't get much attention either.
* There is nothing stopping anyone from forking DevShares to release a stable version with a pretty GUI, but whats the point? Show me a list of reasons why you would want to do this, and I'll show you a person who's out to make a quick buck. Worthwhile features can be implemented into BTS or spun off into a new product after trimming the bloat.
* Nobody, including bytemaster can tell you what DevShares are worth, or what their relative value will be, until they are freely traded on an open market. All attempts are solely speculation based on opinion.
* Due to all the reasons listed above, my wild ass guess is that the relative value of DevShares = LOW
* If you think this hypothesis is valid: "once BTS is fully developed (i know some new things will always be added but 95% developed) Then we will have two chains with no reason for them to have different value." - then why bother with DevShares? Fork BTSX today and let the market decide if you're correct.

stuartcharles · October 27, 2014, 07:18:34 PM

Quote from: sschechter on October 27, 2014, 07:10:04 PM
DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy. It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to. So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you. Will deliver internationally.....

Im good for bridges thanks. You haven't addressed any of the questions i ask. BM says DVS's will have monetary value if it has monetary value and the assumptions in my OP are correct then this deserves an answer. BM any chance you could clarify things?

sschechter · October 27, 2014, 07:10:04 PM

DevShares will be used to test new and experimental features and may be unreliable or buggy. It cannot guarantee stable or production level features, nor is it supposed to. So if someone can make a convincing argument about how or why this should compete with BTS rather than be a testbed for it, I've got a bridge to sell you. Will deliver internationally.....

clayop · October 27, 2014, 06:40:50 PM

I may be able to distribute DevShares to Korea community members to attract them into Bitshares world ;)

donkeypong · October 27, 2014, 06:35:02 PM

I don't think it has investment value if that's what you mean. It's just a test chain.

stuartcharles · October 27, 2014, 04:23:43 PM

Quote from: biophil on October 27, 2014, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: matt608 on October 27, 2014, 03:36:00 PM
Yeah I was wondering about this. It's going to be worth any BTS holders to own a small 'sample' of devshares just to be in the know about what's in the pipeline. There does appear to be a risk of it generating a conflict of interest having just consolidated I3 to work on 1 chain. What happens if speculators start buying devshares resulting in it being well funded enough to compete? Should there be some built in hyperinflation to prevent this?

drltc's original proposal is here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9959.msg129767#msg129767

Thanks for the link, I have had a read through but it doesn't answer my questions. Can one of the developers comment? Its quite important because I and others may want to buy more PTS before the 5th November snapshot.

biophil · October 27, 2014, 03:56:42 PM

Quote from: matt608 on October 27, 2014, 03:36:00 PM
Yeah I was wondering about this. It's going to be worth any BTS holders to own a small 'sample' of devshares just to be in the know about what's in the pipeline. There does appear to be a risk of it generating a conflict of interest having just consolidated I3 to work on 1 chain. What happens if speculators start buying devshares resulting in it being well funded enough to compete? Should there be some built in hyperinflation to prevent this?

drltc's original proposal is here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9959.msg129767#msg129767

Rune · October 27, 2014, 03:41:07 PM

BTS will have all the valuable trust structures. DVS will almost only be valuable to developers and researchers.

matt608 · October 27, 2014, 03:36:00 PM

Yeah I was wondering about this. It's going to be worth any BTS holders to own a small 'sample' of devshares just to be in the know about what's in the pipeline. There does appear to be a risk of it generating a conflict of interest having just consolidated I3 to work on 1 chain. What happens if speculators start buying devshares resulting in it being well funded enough to compete? Should there be some built in hyperinflation to prevent this?