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Offline mf-tzo

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Short sell bitusd
« on: October 28, 2014, 12:14:58 PM »

Maybe this should go to the stupid questions thread but anyway...

I see on BTSX client a short order paying 43.52% interest for $67.43.

Current bid price is 42.9632 and ask is 44.

what order should I place if I want to take buy the $67.43 and earn 43.52% interest by holding them?

 

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 02:53:30 PM »
17 views and no answer...

Either no one really knows the answer so most people have no idea how to trade in the platform
Either my question is way to stupid and no one bothers to answer
Either someone show the opportunity and don't want to enlighten the rest.

By all means if it is the latter. I could not care less about $67. I just want to understand..

Also when I see an opened position for BTSX price 100 and Usd outstanding to cover 100, does this mean that when I do cover the $100 I will receive 10,000 BTSX? Or do I receive some other BTSX from the others that bought my $100bitusd? I hope is the latter or else either I have not understood something about how this works, either there is a mistake in the system. If upon covering I do receive more of 10,000 BTSX can we please on the next GUI having something that shows the amount of BTSX to be released upon covering. Otherwise it is very confusing to do all the time the calculations..

Offline Agent86

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 03:05:33 PM »
Maybe this should go to the stupid questions thread but anyway...

I see on BTSX client a short order paying 43.52% interest for $67.43.

Current bid price is 42.9632 and ask is 44.

what order should I place if I want to take buy the $67.43 and earn 43.52% interest by holding them?
bitUSD is fungible; you don't get 43.52% interest by holding the specific bitUSD you bought.  Instead the interest goes in a pool for all bitUSD holders and is diluted among them.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 03:13:21 PM »
17 views and no answer...

Either no one really knows the answer so most people have no idea how to trade in the platform
Either my question is way to stupid and no one bothers to answer
Either someone show the opportunity and don't want to enlighten the rest.

By all means if it is the latter. I could not care less about $67. I just want to understand..

Also when I see an opened position for BTSX price 100 and Usd outstanding to cover 100, does this mean that when I do cover the $100 I will receive 10,000 BTSX? Or do I receive some other BTSX from the others that bought my $100bitusd? I hope is the latter or else either I have not understood something about how this works, either there is a mistake in the system. If upon covering I do receive more of 10,000 BTSX can we please on the next GUI having something that shows the amount of BTSX to be released upon covering. Otherwise it is very confusing to do all the time the calculations..

Hope A86's answer cleared the initial question for you.

So on the new one - when you cover you get your collateral back. And 'Yes' they removed the collateral amount in the last GUI.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 03:25:46 PM »
Thank you both for the answers. Very clear. +5%
2 more questions:

1. Why on earth have we removed the collateral to be released on the last GUI? This is a step backwards. Can we have it back please? The way it is now it appears that even if I do cover at current price I will receive less than my initial BTSX put as collateral which should not be the case since I have opened a shortbitusd position @ c47...

2. Is there a command I can type to see how much is the accumulated interest for the bitusd holders?

Offline tonyk

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 03:32:10 PM »
Thank you both for the answers. Very clear. +5%
2 more questions:

1. Why on earth have we removed the collateral to be released on the last GUI? This is a step backwards. Can we have it back please? The way it is now it appears that even if I do cover at current price I will receive less than my initial BTSX put as collateral which should not be the case since I have opened a shortbitusd position @ c47...

2. Is there a command I can type to see how much is the accumulated interest for the bitusd holders?

2.
Code: [Select]
>> blockchain_get_asset USD

{
  "id": 22,
  "symbol": "USD",
  "name": "United States Dollar",
  "description": "1 United States dollar",
  "public_data": "",
  "issuer_account_id": -2,
  "precision": 10000,
  "registration_date": "20140719T000000",
  "last_update": "20140719T000000",
  "current_share_supply": 11687409402,
  "maximum_share_supply": 1000000000000000,
  "collected_fees": 55890075
}

 "collected_fees"/"precision" is roughly the accumulated yield... (and depending on future project development)
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline liondani

Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 03:40:40 PM »
Maybe this should go to the stupid questions thread but anyway...

I see on BTSX client a short order paying 43.52% interest for $67.43.

Current bid price is 42.9632 and ask is 44.

what order should I place if I want to take buy the $67.43 and earn 43.52% interest by holding them?
bitUSD is fungible; you don't get 43.52% interest by holding the specific bitUSD you bought.  Instead the interest goes in a pool for all bitUSD holders and is diluted among them.

It would be great if somebody buying bitUSD see in real time (at order time) how much interest he will earn if they confirm his order... is it possible?
  https://bitshares.OPENLEDGER.info/?r=GREECE  | You are in Control | BUY | SELL | SHORT | SWAP | LOAN | TRADE |  

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 03:42:04 PM »
thank u Tonyk

Offline bytemaster

Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 03:42:10 PM »
Maybe this should go to the stupid questions thread but anyway...

I see on BTSX client a short order paying 43.52% interest for $67.43.

Current bid price is 42.9632 and ask is 44.

what order should I place if I want to take buy the $67.43 and earn 43.52% interest by holding them?
bitUSD is fungible; you don't get 43.52% interest by holding the specific bitUSD you bought.  Instead the interest goes in a pool for all bitUSD holders and is diluted among them.

It would be great if somebody buying bitUSD see in real time (at order time) how much interest he will earn if they confirm his order... is it possible?

It isn't tied to individuals... so that 43.52% interest would be shared with all BitUSD holders... holding BitUSD only gives you the average of open positions.   We can calculate that and display it in the GUI.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 03:43:48 PM »
Maybe this should go to the stupid questions thread but anyway...

I see on BTSX client a short order paying 43.52% interest for $67.43.

Current bid price is 42.9632 and ask is 44.

what order should I place if I want to take buy the $67.43 and earn 43.52% interest by holding them?
bitUSD is fungible; you don't get 43.52% interest by holding the specific bitUSD you bought.  Instead the interest goes in a pool for all bitUSD holders and is diluted among them.

It would be great if somebody buying bitUSD see in real time (at order time) how much interest he will earn if they confirm his order... is it possible?
No, as future interest is unknown.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 04:07:24 PM »

1. Why on earth have we removed the collateral to be released on the last GUI? This is a step backwards. Can we have it back please? The way it is now it appears that even if I do cover at current price I will receive less than my initial BTSX put as collateral which should not be the case since I have opened a shortbitusd position @ c47...


You go ahead and make your requests Zeus,

I have taken a firm stance to not complain about anything GUI connected, because when I do thing turn for the worst!

1.I have always, from the first ever releases, complained that the auto fill is not working correctly. Instead of fixing it, I read a half true explanation -'It is done in order to insure that orders match'... done for that my a**. If it was the purpose they would just add 0.0001 not whatever amount they add now.

2. I complained that you can not see the order book when entering an order (they have put random useless, in my view, stuff between them), so one needed scrawling in order to enter an order. Instead of removing that said stuff they made the window self scrawl up when you select something....resulting in needing a double  scrawl now...thanks a ton!

3. They removed the order type from the order book and replaced it with color designation... after complaining that those colors are not distinguishable enough what did they do"... changed the colors to totally undistinguishable....

So I will not complain about the removal of the collateral amount, cause this might force them to remove the cover price also.


« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 04:09:22 PM by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 04:19:34 PM »
lololololololol... :)

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 07:02:59 PM »
Something else now...

I see a lot of buy bitusd, probably from BM selling AGS BTCs, or others that want some security with the launching of the BTS.

What I don't see are any short sellers for bitusd and I am curious why this is the case. I would expect that since the whole BTS thing has been cleared and the market has already discounted the dilution 1 week ago, that BTS bulls would have returned now at the market cap of $40 $45 mil and this is not the case.

People are still selling BTSX or buying bitusd but why there are not many short orders? I am starting to think that I am missing something obvious again...

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 07:14:16 PM »
The whole shorting thing is ridiculous to comprehend.  I still don't know how orders actually get filled.  I've had orders out for weeks and they never get filled...

Why can't we have a "Short bitUSD at Market Price" order?

This complexity is what makes people leery of bitshares...

Offline robrigo

Re: Short sell bitusd
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 07:43:48 PM »
The whole shorting thing is ridiculous to comprehend.  I still don't know how orders actually get filled.  I've had orders out for weeks and they never get filled...

Why can't we have a "Short bitUSD at Market Price" order?

This complexity is what makes people leery of bitshares...

You can short bitUSD at the market price with the latest changes (maybe you could before too)? If you set the Interest Rate and Quantity of bitUSD to short, leaving the price limit blank, the short price will be set at median feed price. The Collateral field is automatically filled when you set the Quantity. When you leave the price limit blank, the Quantity adjusts on your Open Short Sell BitUSD Order as the feed price moves. Your order is competing against the other open shorts on interest rate offered.
 
So the way I have been viewing the likely hood of my short being matched is, how much cheaper bitUSD is for sale (cheaper than the median price feed)? That much bitUSD must be bought before the buy demand starts chomping into the short wall and filling short orders.

So after your short is filled, it becomes a margin order. (is filled the proper terminology here?) Since I am on the short side, I want my BTSX to have higher buying power when I cover my short. So now I wait for the next rise to buy some bitUSD, and cover. Hopefully this will be a profitable scenario for me, and the interest I have to pay doesn't wash out my profit margin.

Hope that helps.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 08:52:01 PM by robrigo »

 

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